moderated Potential search change


 

Hi All,

I'm working with a consulting group to upgrade the search cluster and improve search results. Right now there are two ways of viewing search results: 

- the default view, which shows subject matches and then message body matches
- the 'collapsed topic' view, which shows one result per topic, regardless of how many messages within that topic match

The collapsed topic view basically mimics Gmail search.

I am thinking about removing the existing default view, and only having the collapsed topic view. Also, I would make it so that you could 'expand' each result and see the individual message matches per topic.

Please let me know if you have a strong opinion one way or the other.

Thanks,
Mark


 

Mark,

So this would just be changing the default? We could still see both views (individual message and topic), but with the new way, we'd get the collapsed view first and then expand, as opposed to getting the expanded (individual message) view first and then collapse? I don't have a strong opinion about this, except that I might find that in practice it's a PITA not to see the individual messages first, which is what I usually want to see. (I have that issue now with the message list as a whole. It always defaults to topics.) So it might be one extra click for people who prefer seeing the individual messages first. But at this point it doesn't sound like a dealbreaker.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

For me, the collapsed view is my preference anyway. Once I find a topic that is close to what I'm looking for, I open it in another tab to see the individual messages. I'm hoping that with the upgrade, we'll also be able to do an exact match type search, including strings of numbers/letters (01P or 733 to find 01P927733CM).

Thanks,
Duane


 

Mark,

I would make it so that you could 'expand' each result and see the
individual message matches per topic.
If that expansion must be done on a per-topic basis, rather than expanding all results with one click, that would be a dealbreaker for me.

The snippet in context (search target in bold with a small amount of surrounding text) is an extremely useful aid to rapidly "eyeball filter" the results, looking for the instance in mind. Having search results that present at once only a fraction of all the matches would defeat that ability.

I would find it extremely tedious and frustrating to have to individually open topics to see which one might contain the particular instance of the search target I'm looking for.

Shal


 

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 12:35 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
rather than expanding all results with one click

I was assuming it would be all results with one click. Per topic would be a dealbreaker for me, too. I also agree about the snippet showing the context. That's more than 50% of what makes the search useful for me. I'll go further and say search is practically useless without it. 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 12:35 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

> I would make it so that you could 'expand' each result and see the
> individual message matches per topic.

If that expansion must be done on a per-topic basis, rather than
expanding all results with one click, that would be a dealbreaker for me.
I argee.


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I far prefer the collapsed view with a topics list when I'm doing a search.

Clearly there are those who want an "expand all" feature and those of us who'd also prefer to be able to expand only the topic or topics we wish to do that for.  An "expand all" button should be fairly easy to implement and would just show what comes up by default now.

I generally know the topic I'm looking for once I see it and always use the "collapse topics" feature immediately when search results are returned.  I'm the flip side of those who want to look at messages only, which I find exceedingly tedious when I generally recognize a topic once it's been brought back into view and, thus, into my memory.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


 

I wonder if the preference for topics vs individual message search results has at least partly to do with whether you're an active moderator of a group (Brian, it's my understanding that you moderate one group, but I'm not sure how active you are?) vs. mainly a group member. I am always looking for a very specific message, usually the latest one, having to do with the search term because I keep a very active handle on what's going on in my group. If, for example, I search on "cobalamin," or "Fluffy," I am virtually always looking for the most recent *message* (not topic) discussing cobalamin or the cat Fluffy, not a bunch of topics that I then have to search through. This is also why the default to Topics view on clicking "Messages" is such a PITA for me. It's fine for people looking for conversations having to do with the term, but not useful for someone like me looking for the latest activity on it.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 08:05 am, J_Catlady wrote:


This is also why the default to Topics view on clicking "Messages" is such a
PITA for me.
Why not change your default to Messages then? The group will remember how you last looked at it, so if you were in Messages view, that should come up next time you click on Messages. (It doesn't remember if you click the group name from the overview page [might be an oversight there], but does from the drop down menu of Your Groups.)

Duane


 

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 08:44 am, Duane wrote:
(It doesn't remember if you click the group name from the overview page [might be an oversight there],

That's exactly right. And it doesn't remember if you go in and out of groups.io, even without logging out. 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 09:04 am, J_Catlady wrote:


On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 08:44 am, Duane wrote:


(It doesn't remember if you click the group name from the overview page
[might be an oversight there],
That's exactly right. And it doesn't remember if you go in and out of
groups.io, even without logging out. 
--
J
Strange. The only time it takes me to the Topics view, if I have been using Messages view, is if I enter the group using the group name on the overview page. I can roam all over, close the browser, even log out, and it still goes back to messages view.

Duane


 

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 11:22 am, Duane wrote:
The only time it takes me to the Topics view, if I have been using Messages view, is if I enter the group using the group name on the overview page

We've had this discussion before, and I still think that "feature" should be fixed. As you mentioned, it seems to be an oversight... 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 08:05 am, J_Catlady wrote:
I wonder if the preference for topics vs individual message search results has at least partly to do with whether you're an active moderator of a group (Brian, it's my understanding that you moderate one group, but I'm not sure how active you are?) vs. mainly a group member.

 I don't think it has as much to do with whether I'm a moderator or not.   But it does have to do with the "active" part - particularly from my perspective of how you've described the moderation process on your group.

I could never moderate in as hands-on a way as you do (and that's not a criticism, just an observation).   I also don't, on any place I moderate, hold myself personally responsible for maintaining a specific standard of accuracy regarding content, and you do.

On the groups.io group I moderate the only thing I am responsible for is merging threads back together that get split by something as silly as deleting a character in the subject line of a message when replying.  I do this on a very regular basis, and all I do is look at the titles of the topics/threads and if one says, "Maple trees that grow well in the South," while another says, "Maple tree that grow well in the South," those two topics are merged without my even reading them if they are occurring in a timeframe that makes it apparent that we're dealing with one topic.

It's up to the participants in said threads to take up any issues they have with the content as it is presented.  The group here I moderate for does not actively moderate individual posts (except for brand new members, and briefly) and if I were to be in a situation where genuine oversight of all content were desired then the group would be 100% moderated for each and every post, at least until a member has demonstrated that this is not necessary in their case.

I am often looking for a specific message, but in my head I also know what thread or threads it was most likely contained in.  My mind tends to latch on to topics first and specific "keywords" that have floated through on a given topic in a far looser way.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 

            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


 

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 03:00 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
I could never moderate in as hands-on a way as you do

I'm not sure what you mean by "moderate," but our group does not moderate actively, especially compared to some others (GMF, for example). In fact, our group is unmoderated and only a handful of members are on moderation. However, I do take pains to keep very up-to-date on everything that everyone has posted, so that, for example, I can lend support with a cat in crisis, or correct a misstatement of veterinary medical information (which stands to harm other cats if group members reading believe it), or learn when the vet in our group corrects me or someone else, etc. The standard of accuracy is important for the well-being of the cats in the group. (Of course the cats aren't the ones in the group. :)
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

In other words, I don't want just a list of topics. I want the latest message. 

I think the reasons are unimportant. Some people are going to prefer one thing over the other. Actually, even here in beta, after getting a message via email, I usually want to respond to it via the web. So when I go to the group on the web, I want to immediately access the latest message in order to respond to it (as I'm doing right now). But instead of that, I'm taken to the topic and then have to click on the arrow and then on "messages" to get to where I want to. It's laborious. 

I've sort of given up on this, but whenever an opportune time comes up via a related issue, I bring it up again, as I have here. But I hope that at some point Mark makes a decision about this one way or the other.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

I just can't understand why you have such a difficult time. I've found 4 or 5 ways to get to a group with the Messages view still showing, but only 1 that always brings up the Topics view (2 if you count a bookmark.)

Duane


 

J,

Actually, even here in beta, after getting a message via email, I
usually want to respond to it via the web.
I sometimes do, and when that situation occurs I use the "View/Reply Online" link in the email message footer to take me straight to the message in question. One click and I'm there.

I don't see any advantage in going in through the Messages or Topics list first.

Shal


 

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 06:06 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
I sometimes do, and when that situation occurs I use the "View/Reply Online" link in the email message footer

I was just waiting for that suggestion. Bingo!
I don't do that because, for many reasons, I'm not fond of using the mobile version. I do it only when I can't get to my computer.
Please, let's not have this argument/debate/discussion over and over again! I just want Mark to fix this.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback. The new search will have both views. Once it is working, I will send a link out to a test version and you can play with it and give me feedback.

Thanks,
Mark


 

J,

I don't do that because, for many reasons, I'm not fond of using the
mobile version. I do it only when I can't get to my computer.
I'm confused, who said anything about using the mobile version?

Shal