moderated Do Admin Notices now get more "preview space"?


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On one of the groups I frequent an admin notice went up today and, for the first time, I'm seeing one get a lot more screen real estate than any I've seen before.  In all other cases they've had the #AdminNotice hashtag but received the same subject and one line preview of the text as any other message has.  It is also being given "full screen" for a few moments when the topics list is being loaded, which I've never seen before.

The same "full screen" behavior is showing up on mobile, too, but once the thing is fully loaded it only gets the typical one-line preview of its content there.

Most peculiar.
--
Brian

The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

    ~Bertrand Russell


 

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On one of the groups I frequent an admin notice went up today and, for the first time, I'm seeing one get a lot more screen real estate than any I've seen before.  In all other cases they've had the #AdminNotice hashtag but received the same subject and one line preview of the text as any other message has.  It is also being given "full screen" for a few moments when the topics list is being loaded, which I've never seen before.

The same "full screen" behavior is showing up on mobile, too, but once the thing is fully loaded it only gets the typical one-line preview of its content there.

I'm assuming you're referring to a topic that's been marked as sticky. We display more lines of those topics. I think I made that change some time in the early part of 2016.

Cheers,
Mark


 

I'm responding late to this because I had no idea what Brian meant by #AdminNotice.

Because of the problem with only being able to access Topics View, the stickies are all I see whenever I go into groups.io. I am prevented from seeing any actual activity in my group without an extra click to go into Messages View.

I didn't realize the stickies are now taking up more space than before - I just noticed (since the reemergence of the Topics vs. Messages View issue) that when I go into groups.io, all I see is very old messages (the stickies) because they are always on top of Topics View. Because of these combined issues I'm not at the point where I've toyed with not using stickies at all.

So now that Brian has brought this up, I'm wondering what the general feeling is about the amount of "preview" space that stickies should take. On my end, unless (and until?) the system again begins to remember which view you were in before, I'd much rather see the stickies shrink back down to two-liners.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 08:49 am, J_Catlady wrote:


the stickies are all I see whenever I go into groups.io
Actually, you just need to scroll down below the stickies in Topic view. I use them sparingly and change them as needed, so have no problem with having 5 lines.

Duane


 

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 09:04 am, Duane wrote:
Actually, you just need to scroll down below the stickies in Topic view.

Yes, that's what I meant. Currently they take up the whole screen. I plan on minimizing their use from now on and substituting wiki pages or files if this continues. Thanks. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Duane,

I use them sparingly and change them as needed, so have no
problem with having 5 lines.
Ditto.

I just wish that the first message in a sticky topic were stuck to the top of the Messages list also.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


 

Maybe this is "cat specific" or something, but in all three cats groups I'm in (including my own), the stickies take up the entire first page of the Topics View, and they are all very old messages - group guidelines, etc.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Each one is 5 lines, plus the title (1-2 lines), plus the bottom dateline, plus a little space, plus the top banner. This takes 1-2+ pages in every cats group I'm in. In one group it takes up 3 pages!
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

I just got rid of all but two of my group's stickies and shortened one to two lines. I will mostly use files and wiki pages instead from now on. My preference would be to go back to 2-line previews and allow entry into Messages View from the top of groups.io if that's the view one was in before, but I will try (hard;) not to mention the second issue again and am assuming it's not going away.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Since others have chimed in, on both "sides," I'm for making pinned (since the pushpin is what gets used on Groups.io) messages have the standard preview appearance in Topics view (and probably messages view, but I never use it).

The pushpin icon and positioning at the top of the topics list is more than enough.  That many of these messages get "pinned forever" and stay there long after they have any real currency makes the amount of screen real estate they take up all the more annoying (to me - though I would think that's clear).
--
Brian

The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

    ~Bertrand Russell


 

Yes! Those are other reasons besides my weird ones.;)
J

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Since others have chimed in, on both "sides," I'm for making pinned (since the pushpin is what gets used on Groups.io) messages have the standard preview appearance in Topics view (and probably messages view, but I never use it).

The pushpin icon and positioning at the top of the topics list is more than enough.  That many of these messages get "pinned forever" and stay there long after they have any real currency makes the amount of screen real estate they take up all the more annoying (to me - though I would think that's clear).
--
Brian

The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

    ~Bertrand Russell


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Maria
 

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 09:10 am, Shal Farley wrote:
Ditto.

I just wish that the first message in a sticky topic were stuck to the top of the Messages list also.

Shal

Ditto x2!

I use one stickie per group - never more - and I love that it's 5 lines because it's usually important guidelines related stuff and new members and not so new members are able to see it, if they missed it when it was originally posted.

Like Shal, i wish it was on messages view too.

Maria


 

If it goes on Messages View too I'm going on a 'sticky strike' and will stop using stickies entirely. Seriously.:-)
J

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2017, at 9:30 PM, HR Tech via Groups.Io <m.conway11@...> wrote:

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 09:10 am, Shal Farley wrote:
Ditto.

I just wish that the first message in a sticky topic were stuck to the top of the Messages list also.

Shal

Ditto x2!

I use one stickie per group - never more - and I love that it's 5 lines because it's usually important guidelines related stuff and new members and not so new members are able to see it, if they missed it when it was originally posted.

Like Shal, i wish it was on messages view too.

Maria


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Seriously. One group I belong to (a huge group with thousands of members and a long history) has THREE FULL PAGES of stickies in Topics View, rendering that view fairly useless now with the expanded previews. Others have 2+ pages. If expanded previews for stickes takes effect on Messages View as well, the Messages View of those groups will also become useless unless they do away with their stickies. And this is just the few groups I belong to. I don't know what goes on in the hundreds, or thousands, of others. I've already gotten rid of all but two of my most essential stickies (one being "don't mark messages as spam" etc.) and have reduced one of those two to a harsh two-liner.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

The problem here is that many, many groups that use pinned/sticky posts have absolutely no discipline about the number of those nor anyone going back and reviewing what's there over time to decide whether it needs to remain there.

I know, I don't suspect, this.  It is a fact that has now been reported by at least one other, and I can safely say that the groups we view do not overlap other than this one and maybe the Group Managers Forum.

I get constantly reminded that we essentially must design for "the lowest common denominator" since it seems that taking the time to train people about what their choices might mean for other users is too burdensome.   If we're going to stick to that philosophy then there are a lot of us "other users" who are badly burdened by multiple pages of extra-long pinned message previews that amount to nothing but "dead space" we ignore because we paid attention in the first place.  Pinned posts are not the place for an awful lot of things they get used for and they should be reviewed and removed as needed.  That seldom happens in practice.
--
Brian

The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

    ~Bertrand Russell


Maria
 

I'm of the opinion that a group should only be allowed 1 sticky post.

It's important for members to feel the activity in a group.

If the group owner and mods don't get that having 10 messages as stickies is a bad idea, then perhaps the system can force them.

Soon they will realize the solution: one sticky that links to any important must read FAQ/ guideline etc posts.

Seriously, 10 stickies.... ugh, no wonder it's driving people nuts. It's a mis-use of that feature and it hurts the interface because users don't get the sense of new posts, the dynamism of a group, etc and are then pushed to view in messages view, which is really time consuming for the average user.

Topics view is the way you get a good overview of what's going on in a group. Say last you checked was 3 days ago, or say you are looking for something specific, or only want to read what interests you, then topics view is ideal (also the most attractive visually because you don't get repeat subject lines and you get an idea of total replies). I don't think stickies should be allowed to ruin that experience.

One sticky should be sufficient. I think that's the case in twitter and FB and other interfaces. You only get one pinned post. I think...

Maria


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Maria,

        I can certainly support the idea of a fixed number of pinned posts, that's for sure, but 1 seems a bit strict, particularly if the 5-lines-of-text display were to be reversed.  If you go down to the conventional preview 5 sticky posts fit easily without much issue.   I hasten to add, though, that it should be rare that there is a need for 5 sticky/pinned posts at any given moment.

        Pinned/sticky posts have a long history of both use and abuse.  So far Groups.io is the only place I've experienced where they get special display status beyond the positioning at the top of a topics view and the use of the pinned icon (or other indicator, elsewhere) that shows that they're pinned.

        Personally, if we're talking about changes like limiting total number of pinned messages per group I'd also love to see a timer placed on them, too.  Say six months.  At the end of that time the group owner(s) and moderators would be sent a message that they either need to unpin then repin to set the timer again or the system will unpin the post automatically.  My experience of decades now is that most pinned/sticky posts are a one-way "set it and forget it" communication that loses its purpose and, more importantly, effectiveness very quickly.   These things become visual clutter, not unlike online ads, that one simply filters out such that their communicative content is lost while their annoyance factor at having to constantly scroll past them remains constant.
--
Brian

The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

    ~Bertrand Russell


Maria
 

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 07:08 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
So far Groups.io is the only place I've experienced where they get special display status beyond the positioning at the top of a topics view and the use of the pinned icon (or other indicator, elsewhere) that shows that they're pinned.

I really like the fact that you get 5 lines for a pinned post. As mentioned, we only use 1 per group - never more - as we can create links within a pinned post to other important post. I feel the extra lines of preview a pinned post get are really useful, because it implies that the content is important and allows for a quick skim without clicking on it - precisely because it's something you may see each time you log in - why make people click on it to be reminded of it/read it. Defeats the purpose. Discourse also shows more preview for their pinned posts and I find that great both there and on groups.io, also because it makes the layout slighting different on topics view from messages view. I feel like FB also shows more for pinned posts in groups. So, I'm all for keeping the 5 line preview. 

I honestly don't get why one would need or want 2 stickies. If both are equally important, then just create one post that serves as a FAQ list or reminder of guidelines, or other sticky worthy stuff, and link to those. Also, one can hashtag all important posts with a moderator only hashtag and your sticky can simply direct people to a hashtag category if you have that much stuff that is sticky worthy. Honestly, i feel that the feature is being mis-used if groups have 2 pages of stickies. They are not exploiting all the other useful ways in which to make important info easy to find - and groups.io offers so many cool ways to do that.

I'm rarely so strict about stuff - but when a feature is misused to the point of affecting user experience, or ruining the interface's beautiful layout, or causing users to not use the interface to it's potential, then I think the interface should guide users more forcefully to do so.

It's like when you go to a great restaurant with great and beautiful food and someone (usually not the chef) puts the background music on SO loud that you can't hear yourself speak let alone enjoy the food. They ruin the experience and the chef's hard thought out creations can't be enjoyed with all your senses because your hearing is overpowering all senses. Ok, maybe not the best analogy - but you get the point how much it bugs me that a group would have 2 pages of stickies! I think i've found a pet peeve I may dislike as much as loud background music.

Maria



Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Maria,

         We're largely in agreement.  I do believe that you are wildly optimistic in your belief that the preview length has any real correspondence to member willingness to read.

         Sticky/pinned messages really only serve a useful purpose for the long-term membership when they're fresh and for newbies for their first visit or two.  If the actual content of a pinned message is being revised, particularly "below the level of the preview" regardless of the length of said preview, I am willing to bet very large sums of money that the number of eyes that will ever cast their gaze upon that content is exceedingly low.

         Novelty is the primary thing that gets people to redirect their attention during activities of daily living.  As soon as the novelty of a pinned message wears off it becomes background noise.  If you don't believe me on this I'd actually suggest polling your membership regarding whether, when, and how many times they've ever looked at the single pinned message you're using.
--
Brian

The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

    ~Bertrand Russell


 

And I go back to the discussion about users using what is provided (this discussion took place in GMF regarding trimming posts, and the fact that groups.io provides automatic trimming for the web versions of posts that are top-posted). If a system provides a feature, users will use it and IMO should not then be blamed for bad behavior when the features changes or sprouts a bug.

In this case, it was perfectly fine to have 5 more stickies when they only took up one line. I'm certain the owner of the group with 13 stickies taking up (now) 3 pages has no idea this has happened, and (again, my opinion) should not be blamed for "misuse" of stickies of lack of netiquette etc. The moment I myself found out what was happening (and only tangentially, through this discussion - as I said, I'd noticed only that the Topics View page was nearly useless and I was always being taken to it), I removed all but two stickies and will henceforth use the wiki or files for the same information. The problem here was (again, my opinion) lack of communication.

There are several groups systems I belong to where many, many groups have about a dozen stickies. There are "introduce yourself here" stickies. There are "group rules" stickies. There are "How to use the system" stickies. I could go on and on. My own group had (until yesterday) stickies for group posting guidelines, a completable cat-history questionnaire, a site map, a warning about marking messages as spam, and a couple of others.

Please don't blame group owners for using a feature that was provided to them. Please don't blame them for using "more than 1 sticky" as if it were a crime unless you COMMUNICATE WITH THEM that the stickies are going to crowd out the up-to-date messages on the first screen the user is presented with.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu