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moderated 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

Mark Fletcher
 

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 12:29 PM Harm Selling <h.selling@...> wrote:


1. Last Friday (5 days ago) I requested a transfer for my Yahoo group.Last Saturday (4 days ago) I've given the go-ahead.
How long is the actual waiting time for finishing the transfer?

I've added a status line to the transfer page. When you go to edit your transfer, if it's been submitted for transfer, you'll now see one of these 4 status lines:

Your group is awaiting export from Yahoo. [Step 1 of 4]
Your group is being exported from Yahoo right now. [Step 2 of 4]
Your group is awaiting import into Groups.io. There are about N groups ahead of it in the queue. [Step 3 of 4]
Your group is being imported into Groups.io right now. [Step 4 of 4]

Where N in Step 3 is an estimate as to where you are in the queue. Your group is about 70th in the queue right now.

Step 4 is the biggest bottleneck, as I can only import so many groups at a time without overloading the system. I can't give an estimate as to how long each group takes to be imported, because each group is different (how many photos, how many messages, etc). Also it's dependent on how many groups have requested expedited processing at the time.

 

2. The member list of my group has a lot of members with the status "No mail". I'm afraid most of these members are not active anymore. Do these members receive a welcome message by joining Group.io? And if that message bounces, are these bouncing accounts automaticly removed or do they automaticly get the status "bouncing"?
If not…. What's the best way to check and clean up these "no mail" accounts? My group contains no-mail accounts from the year 2000, the year of introducing the group, 19 years ago.


If you didn't uncheck the 'Send a message to your members when the transfer is complete' they will be sent a welcome message (ditto if you have a group welcome message). That will be tracked for bouncing. Whether that actually triggers someone being removed depends on the type of bounce back received.

Thanks,
Mark 
Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

Thank you for the information.

---

Harm Selling

 

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Mark Fletcher
Verzonden: woensdag 23 oktober 2019 22:51
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

 

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 12:29 PM Harm Selling <h.selling@...> wrote:


1. Last Friday (5 days ago) I requested a transfer for my Yahoo group.Last Saturday (4 days ago) I've given the go-ahead.
How long is the actual waiting time for finishing the transfer?

I've added a status line to the transfer page. When you go to edit your transfer, if it's been submitted for transfer, you'll now see one of these 4 status lines:

 

Your group is awaiting export from Yahoo. [Step 1 of 4]
Your group is being exported from Yahoo right now. [Step 2 of 4]
Your group is awaiting import into Groups.io. There are about N groups ahead of it in the queue. [Step 3 of 4]
Your group is being imported into Groups.io right now. [Step 4 of 4]

Where N in Step 3 is an estimate as to where you are in the queue. Your group is about 70th in the queue right now.

 

Step 4 is the biggest bottleneck, as I can only import so many groups at a time without overloading the system. I can't give an estimate as to how long each group takes to be imported, because each group is different (how many photos, how many messages, etc). Also it's dependent on how many groups have requested expedited processing at the time.

 

 

2. The member list of my group has a lot of members with the status "No mail". I'm afraid most of these members are not active anymore. Do these members receive a welcome message by joining Group.io? And if that message bounces, are these bouncing accounts automaticly removed or do they automaticly get the status "bouncing"?
If not…. What's the best way to check and clean up these "no mail" accounts? My group contains no-mail accounts from the year 2000, the year of introducing the group, 19 years ago.

 

If you didn't uncheck the 'Send a message to your members when the transfer is complete' they will be sent a welcome message (ditto if you have a group welcome message). That will be tracked for bouncing. Whether that actually triggers someone being removed depends on the type of bounce back received.

 

Thanks,
Mark 
William Ellis
 

Mark;  thanks for the update and feature.  it is this kind of thinking which makes this platform a great place to be.
William
William Ellis
 

Hey Mark, maybe when things slow down (if ever) you can post some stats on how many new groups and members have joined Group.IO.  It seems like there are SO many more groups than when I started here a couple of months ago on a group.
Keep doing the great job....you have been.
rich hurd
 

Thanks, Mark.  How refreshing to get a responsive service provider.   :)

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 16:51 Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 12:29 PM Harm Selling <h.selling@...> wrote:


1. Last Friday (5 days ago) I requested a transfer for my Yahoo group.Last Saturday (4 days ago) I've given the go-ahead.
How long is the actual waiting time for finishing the transfer?

I've added a status line to the transfer page. When you go to edit your transfer, if it's been submitted for transfer, you'll now see one of these 4 status lines:

Your group is awaiting export from Yahoo. [Step 1 of 4]
Your group is being exported from Yahoo right now. [Step 2 of 4]
Your group is awaiting import into Groups.io. There are about N groups ahead of it in the queue. [Step 3 of 4]
Your group is being imported into Groups.io right now. [Step 4 of 4]

Where N in Step 3 is an estimate as to where you are in the queue. Your group is about 70th in the queue right now.

Step 4 is the biggest bottleneck, as I can only import so many groups at a time without overloading the system. I can't give an estimate as to how long each group takes to be imported, because each group is different (how many photos, how many messages, etc). Also it's dependent on how many groups have requested expedited processing at the time.

 

2. The member list of my group has a lot of members with the status "No mail". I'm afraid most of these members are not active anymore. Do these members receive a welcome message by joining Group.io? And if that message bounces, are these bouncing accounts automaticly removed or do they automaticly get the status "bouncing"?
If not…. What's the best way to check and clean up these "no mail" accounts? My group contains no-mail accounts from the year 2000, the year of introducing the group, 19 years ago.


If you didn't uncheck the 'Send a message to your members when the transfer is complete' they will be sent a welcome message (ditto if you have a group welcome message). That will be tracked for bouncing. Whether that actually triggers someone being removed depends on the type of bounce back received.

Thanks,
Mark 

--

“We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.” ― John F Kennedy
Barry_M
 

Couldn't agree more about the responsiveness and just the values, compassion, competence and humor behind groups.io. But, at the risk of making an obvious poi

1.  Yahoo! and its subsequent owners never saw YG as a line of business with much growth potential.  It was is also much larger now, at the point of its unsurprising demise. Combine those two things and easy to understand why it wasn't invested in, didn't work well and why the responsive was very poor to non-existent.

 

2. Groups.io is a much smaller entity than YG.  That may (and hopefully will) change in the future but "responsive" is something that has to be invested in when a business or organization scales.  One person, however talented and fabulous, can't be doing much 1:1 response and problem resolution once there are thousands, tens of thousands or millions of groups and group owners.  At that scale, it requires real investment in things like customer service personnel, contact centers and high-quality customer experience software.

Groups.io is awesome.  Mark is fantastic. But you just can't operate the same way at scale as you must when you are large.  And, at either size, you can operate poorly (as YG has for years) or well. Whatever an org's size, it's all about the leadership, values and competence at managing growth, technically, organizationally, strategically and commercially.

For the past few years, and even now, things are wonderful here on groups.io.  We should all hope that that can remain true with the inevitable growth that is happening, faster than expected now with YG's shutdown.  FWIW.
Barry_M
 

Apologies my typos above!  Hopefully it's still clear.  As a warning to newer groups.io members who care about their writing, be sure to edit/check your comments/posts before you click "reply to group" or whatever, as I didn't do well above. Once posted, they can't be edited.
rich hurd
 

There is an analogue in the ham radio world for a group that is scaling, excellently run with the technical chops to make a difference.   All the lurking hams now know that I’m talking about Elecraft.  It can be done but it takes a huge investment in ability, tools, and people.  

Let’s hope that Mark can follow that same path.   End of off topic post.  

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 18:54 Barry_M via Groups.Io <bmwiner=zoho.com@groups.io> wrote:

Couldn't agree more about the responsiveness and just the values, compassion, competence and humor behind groups.io. But, at the risk of making an obvious poi

1.  Yahoo! and its subsequent owners never saw YG as a line of business with much growth potential.  It was is also much larger now, at the point of its unsurprising demise. Combine those two things and easy to understand why it wasn't invested in, didn't work well and why the responsive was very poor to non-existent.

 

2. Groups.io is a much smaller entity than YG.  That may (and hopefully will) change in the future but "responsive" is something that has to be invested in when a business or organization scales.  One person, however talented and fabulous, can't be doing much 1:1 response and problem resolution once there are thousands, tens of thousands or millions of groups and group owners.  At that scale, it requires real investment in things like customer service personnel, contact centers and high-quality customer experience software.

Groups.io is awesome.  Mark is fantastic. But you just can't operate the same way at scale as you must when you are large.  And, at either size, you can operate poorly (as YG has for years) or well. Whatever an org's size, it's all about the leadership, values and competence at managing growth, technically, organizationally, strategically and commercially.

For the past few years, and even now, things are wonderful here on groups.io.  We should all hope that that can remain true with the inevitable growth that is happening, faster than expected now with YG's shutdown.  FWIW.

--

“We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.” ― John F Kennedy
Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

Yesterday  there were 70 groups ahead in the queue, this morning (Dutch time) 75 and now 79.

This is very frustrating and seems to be an endless waiting time :-(


---

Harm Selling



----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
To: main@beta.groups.io
Sent: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:50:38 -0700
Subject: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 12:29 PM Harm Selling <h.selling@...> wrote:


1. Last Friday (5 days ago) I requested a transfer for my Yahoo group.Last Saturday (4 days ago) I've given the go-ahead.
How long is the actual waiting time for finishing the transfer?

I've added a status line to the transfer page. When you go to edit your transfer, if it's been submitted for transfer, you'll now see one of these 4 status lines:
 
Your group is awaiting export from Yahoo. [Step 1 of 4]
Your group is being exported from Yahoo right now. [Step 2 of 4]
Your group is awaiting import into Groups.io. There are about N groups ahead of it in the queue. [Step 3 of 4]
Your group is being imported into Groups.io right now. [Step 4 of 4]

Where N in Step 3 is an estimate as to where you are in the queue. Your group is about 70th in the queue right now.
 
Step 4 is the biggest bottleneck, as I can only import so many groups at a time without overloading the system. I can't give an estimate as to how long each group takes to be imported, because each group is different (how many photos, how many messages, etc). Also it's dependent on how many groups have requested expedited processing at the time.
 
 

2. The member list of my group has a lot of members with the status "No mail". I'm afraid most of these members are not active anymore. Do these members receive a welcome message by joining Group.io? And if that message bounces, are these bouncing accounts automaticly removed or do they automaticly get the status "bouncing"?
If not…. What's the best way to check and clean up these "no mail" accounts? My group contains no-mail accounts from the year 2000, the year of introducing the group, 19 years ago.

 

If you didn't uncheck the 'Send a message to your members when the transfer is complete' they will be sent a welcome message (ditto if you have a group welcome message). That will be tracked for bouncing. Whether that actually triggers someone being removed depends on the type of bounce back received.
 
Thanks,
Mark 
Barry_M
 

Selling Harm—Have to be patient.  Groups.io isn’t a big company with a huge team that can quickly process a large number of transfers whilst keeping the quality and experience good.  Groups had no more advance warning than any YG manager did and just hadn’t been preparing for it.  This is a great platform run by a fantastically competent, experienced and compassionate person (who also has a fab sense of humor).  It’ll all get done.  We all need to return the same level of compassion, as much empathy as can be summoned and patience.  Thanks for considering this! 🙏
Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

I understand. But it's usual that a queue (in the super market, at the airport, a telephone help desk) is gradually shrinking instead of growing.

A Dutch famous comedian had a conference about a telephone helpdesk.
The public hears:
"There are 2 people waiting for you"
Thereafter:
"There are 3 people waiting for you"
The audience is laughing about this joke. But here the joke turns out reality…. The queue has grown from 70 to 77 in one day. That's very strange and gives no confidence.
I hope the queue will be shrink instead of grow next days.


---

Harm Selling

 

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Barry_M via Groups.Io
Verzonden: donderdag 24 oktober 2019 20:31
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

 

Selling Harm—Have to be patient.  Groups.io isn’t a big company with a huge team that can quickly process a large number of transfers whilst keeping the quality and experience good.  Groups had no more advance warning than any YG manager did and just hadn’t been preparing for it.  This is a great platform run by a fantastically competent, experienced and compassionate person (who also has a fab sense of humor).  It’ll all get done.  We all need to return the same level of compassion, as much empathy as can be summoned and patience.  Thanks for considering this! 🙏
Duane
 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 01:44 PM, Harm Selling wrote:
I hope the queue will be shrink instead of grow next days.
It's my understanding that those that are paying the extra fee of $200 get put in front of those that don't find it that urgent.  Also note that the number is an estimate, not carved in stone.  I'm sure the seemingly constant glitches at Yahoo aren't helping any.  (And believe it or not, Mark does need to get some sleep now and then...)

Duane
Jim Member <jmurray1@...>
 

Harm,

You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

Best,

Jim

On 10/24/2019 1:43 PM, Harm Selling wrote:

I understand. But it's usual that a queue (in the super market, at the airport, a telephone help desk) is gradually shrinking instead of growing.

A Dutch famous comedian had a conference about a telephone helpdesk.
The public hears:
"There are 2 people waiting for you"
Thereafter:
"There are 3 people waiting for you"
The audience is laughing about this joke. But here the joke turns out reality???. The queue has grown from 70 to 77 in one day. That's very strange and gives no confidence.
I hope the queue will be shrink instead of grow next days.


---

Harm Selling

??

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Barry_M via Groups.Io
Verzonden: donderdag 24 oktober 2019 20:31
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

??

Selling Harm???Have to be patient. ??Groups.io isn???t a big company with a huge team that can quickly process a large number of transfers whilst keeping the quality and experience good. ??Groups had no more advance warning than any YG manager did and just hadn???t been preparing for it. ??This is a great platform run by a fantastically competent, experienced and compassionate person (who also has a fab sense of humor). ??It???ll all get done. ??We all need to return the same level of compassion, as much empathy as can be summoned and patience. ??Thanks for considering this! ????
Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

> You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

If that's the cause of the growing queue, I wonder if it's wise to offer a priority possibility in a period of an increasing number of customers and a deadline because of the upcoming closure of Yahoo Groups.
If Groups.io cannot deliver on the demand before the closure of Yahoo Groups, it has to refund a lot of payments (because of not fulfilling the agreements). If there's a continuous stream of customers with priority (I think companies, because 200 dollar is an exorbitant amount for individuals), the backlog is growing bigger and cannot be solved anymore.

I think the current priority should be eliminating the backlog instead of making money from priority requests.

Harm
Barry_M
 

I’m going to stop commenting on this since I’m
not authorized in any way to represent this platform.

That said, Harm and others, we may be over complicating this with the priority fee and expressed concerns with service.

Small organization.  Sudden, large and unexpected demands on the platforms.  So, somewhat overwhelming. Reasonable deduction, no?

True that queues normally reduce rather than increase. Unless one is trying to catch up with a chaotic situation.

I ask again that any frustrated by the “service” here compare what the service quality was at YG.  And, please, try to put oneself in Mark’s shoes before being too critical.  For those who care, there are many here who can testify to this being a wonderfully effective platform with serious competence and admirable values behind it. That’s why I’m here.  FWIW.
Jim Member <jmurray1@...>
 

Sorry, I gotta go. I'll try you when I get home but if not maybe we can connect tomorrow. I do promise, I'll only take a few minutes of your time.

Thanks

On 10/24/2019 2:35 PM, Harm Selling wrote:

> You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

If that's the cause of the growing queue, I wonder if it's wise to offer a priority possibility in a period of an increasing number of customers and a deadline because of the upcoming closure of Yahoo Groups.
If Groups.io cannot deliver on the demand before the closure of Yahoo Groups, it has to refund a lot of payments (because of not fulfilling the agreements). If there's a continuous stream of customers with priority (I think companies, because 200 dollar is an exorbitant amount for individuals), the backlog is growing bigger and cannot be solved anymore.

I think the current priority should be eliminating the backlog instead of making money from priority requests.

Harm
David Tuma
 

How do I find out where in the transfer queue I am?

w/r,
David







On Oct 24, 2019, at 3:35 PM, Harm Selling <h.selling@...> wrote:

> You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

If that's the cause of the growing queue, I wonder if it's wise to offer a priority possibility in a period of an increasing number of customers and a deadline because of the upcoming closure of Yahoo Groups.
If Groups.io cannot deliver on the demand before the closure of Yahoo Groups, it has to refund a lot of payments (because of not fulfilling the agreements). If there's a continuous stream of customers with priority (I think companies, because 200 dollar is an exorbitant amount for individuals), the backlog is growing bigger and cannot be solved anymore.

I think the current priority should be eliminating the backlog instead of making money from priority requests.

Harm
Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

I'll write a pm to Mark with my burdens……


---

Harm Selling

 

Van: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> Namens Barry_M via Groups.Io
Verzonden: donderdag 24 oktober 2019 22:32
Aan: main@beta.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer

 

I’m going to stop commenting on this since I’m
not authorized in any way to represent this platform.

That said, Harm and others, we may be over complicating this with the priority fee and expressed concerns with service.

Small organization.  Sudden, large and unexpected demands on the platforms.  So, somewhat overwhelming. Reasonable deduction, no?

True that queues normally reduce rather than increase. Unless one is trying to catch up with a chaotic situation.

I ask again that any frustrated by the “service” here compare what the service quality was at YG.  And, please, try to put oneself in Mark’s shoes before being too critical.  For those who care, there are many here who can testify to this being a wonderfully effective platform with serious competence and admirable values behind it. That’s why I’m here.  FWIW.

Mark Fletcher
 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 12:36 PM Harm Selling <h.selling@...> wrote:

> You do know that groups can pay extra to be prioritized, don't you? I assume that is what you're seeing.

If that's the cause of the growing queue, I wonder if it's wise to offer a priority possibility in a period of an increasing number of customers and a deadline because of the upcoming closure of Yahoo Groups.


The most important thing is to get the data out of Yahoo and safely stored. That's the export part of the system. Once the data is out, it doesn't matter if Yahoo Groups is up/gone/malfunctioning/whatever. Your group has already been exported, it's just now in the queue to be loaded into Groups.io. What you saw this morning was a bunch of priority transfers bumping to the head of the line. I really am going as fast as I can with this.

What seems to be the case with the incoming Yahoo Groups is that they are averaging large numbers of messages, as I suppose you'd expect from long running groups. The messages take the most time to import and can't be done in parallel, because the threading algorithm expects to see messages in order, like you'd normally get in a mailing list. I could perhaps fix that, but I don't have the time right now.


Mark
Leeni
 

I totally agree with you Duane.
 
What some of these members do not realize the extra time and expense it is costing Mark to do them a favor by having their groups transfer automatically. He could have easily said to them - Create a group and transfer all of your files, messages, members manually. That is still an option for any group that can't pay. 
 
This in no way is Groups IO's fault or Mark's fault.
 
Last year I saw the writing on the wall at Yahoo when messages were not being sent, lots of outages, service being poor. That was when I moved my groups to IO and it was done for free. There wasn't any time frame needed to get it done.  Any one of you could have done the same thing. Many group owners moved to IO long before I did as well.
 
Now when Yahoo gives a date for all your information to be gone, you all are in a panic. Yes, there are groups that are on Yahoo backed by corporations and have the funds to pay. Moving everything to Groups IO would be deemed very important. I also know there are groups on Yahoo that were like mine, hobby type group. The hobby type groups can easily carry on without prior messages. Files can be added manually and members can get invites. I did that with one Yahoo group I just inherited. I transferred it over myself. 
 
Mark came up with a solution to help you and you all are giving him backlash.
 
He can just as easily tell you all, you are on your own with your migration.  
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: Duane
Date: 10/24/2019 1:53:27 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] 2 questions about the Yahoo Group transfer
 
On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 01:44 PM, Harm Selling wrote:
I hope the queue will be shrink instead of grow next days.
It's my understanding that those that are paying the extra fee of $200 get put in front of those that don't find it that urgent.  Also note that the number is an estimate, not carved in stone.  I'm sure the seemingly constant glitches at Yahoo aren't helping any.  (And believe it or not, Mark does need to get some sleep now and then...)

Duane
 
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