Topics

locked "P" next to member name


 

There is a "P" next to the name of two members in my test group. In both cases, I've set their permission to "override - posts not moderated" (the default in the group is "new members are moderated"). What does the "P" stand for, and in what cases does it appear? Thanks.

J


 

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 11:20 AM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

There is a "P" next to the name of two members in my test group. In both cases, I've set their permission to "override - posts not moderated" (the default in the group is "new members are moderated"). What does the "P" stand for, and in what cases does it appear? Thanks.

You can hover over those and they should pop up a tool-tip. In this case, it'd say 'Can Post', which means that they're set as you described, override - posts not moderated.

Mark 


 

Thanks, yes, that was it! 

J


 

Mark,

This situation has made me think about these annotations in general, and in particular to ponder whether if they're consistent and meaningful in all cases.

For example, in a group where new members are moderated, you mark someone as "P" when they are new but have been allowed to post (side-stepping the default). Does the "P" go away when they satisfy the regular requirement, or only when they are hand-marked to remove the exception? In fact, how can the "P" can go away, even if they satisfy the regular requirement (e.g., "2 posts approved"), since the member will never have any posts explicitly approved, having side-stepped the requirement?

Also, I am marked "M" in a group where new members are moderated, and in which I haven't posted yet. Yet I'm not marked "M" in another group where *all" members are moderated. I find this confusing. If I don't look at the second group's home page to discover that all posts are moderated, I would wonder why my posts are being delayed -  the "M" by my name in the other group makes me think that I will always see whether or not I'm moderated in any given group (not just the ones where moderation is only for new members, or on a case-by-case basis, etc.).

So I'm wondering about changing this setup so that

-all members who can post (whether or not this is the default) are marked "P"

-all members on moderation are marked "M" (even in a group which is completely moderated)

Admittedly I haven't thought this through, but I've already found it confusing (and now also wonder about what happens to the "P" eventually).

J







Duane
 

On my groups, new members are moderated, but once that's removed, there's no letter by their name. I think you're seeing the P because you've set them so they can always post, no matter what settings you have for the group.

Duane


 

J,

Does the "P" go away when they satisfy the regular requirement, or only
when they are hand-marked to remove the exception?
I imagine the badges exactly map to the member's Posting Privileges - the selection you'd see if you clicked on the member's Name or Email link.

So I'm wondering about changing this setup so that
-all members who can post (whether or not this is the default) are
marked "P"
-all members on moderation are marked "M" (even in a group which is
completely moderated)
As displayed in the Members list I would find this _more_ confusing and more clutter. The way to think about the badges is that they show when a member has an Override setting; otherwise (in the no badge case) the member follows the group setting. As a moderator of the group I'm naturally aware of the group's policy.

That said, as a member looking at the Your Groups page you may have point - the group's policy isn't shown there. On that page it might make sense to boil the badges down to the three possible results of combining the group and individual settings: Post without moderation, Moderated, and Not allowed to post.

-- Shal


 

Duane,

I understand why the P is there. I'm wondering about the rules for putting the notations in general and whether they're confusing. I think it's confusing to have an "M" by my name in a group where I'm moderated simply because I'm new (and have never posted there) but no "M" by my name in groups that are moderated overall. Also, I wonder how the "P" goes away on its own, ever. It seems a mod would have to undo the side-stepped default for it to go away, since no posts of the member's would ever be explicitly approved. \

Etc.

J

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On my groups, new members are moderated, but once that's removed, there's no letter by their name.  I think you're seeing the P because you've set them so they can always post, no matter what settings you have for the group.

Duane







 

So in a group that is all moderated, does an unmoderated member have a 'P' next to their name?
I just find it confusing to have a separate notation 'P' that really just means 'not M.'

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2016, at 1:49 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

J,

Does the "P" go away when they satisfy the regular requirement, or only
when they are hand-marked to remove the exception?
I imagine the badges exactly map to the member's Posting Privileges - the selection you'd see if you clicked on the member's Name or Email link.

So I'm wondering about changing this setup so that
-all members who can post (whether or not this is the default) are
marked "P"
-all members on moderation are marked "M" (even in a group which is
completely moderated)
As displayed in the Members list I would find this _more_ confusing and more clutter. The way to think about the badges is that they show when a member has an Override setting; otherwise (in the no badge case) the member follows the group setting. As a moderator of the group I'm naturally aware of the group's policy.

That said, as a member looking at the Your Groups page you may have point - the group's policy isn't shown there. On that page it might make sense to boil the badges down to the three possible results of combining the group and individual settings: Post without moderation, Moderated, and Not allowed to post.

-- Shal




 
Edited

J,

So in a group that is all moderated, does an unmoderated member have a
'P' next to their name?
In any kind of group, a member with the "Not moderated" override would have a 'P' next to their name.

I just find it confusing to have a separate notation 'P' that really
just means 'not M.'
'P' does not mean 'not M'.

There are five cases, all of which are of interest to a moderator looking at their Members list:

'P' = Override: not moderated,
'M' = Override: moderated,
'NuM' = Override: new user moderated,
'NP' = Override: not allowed to post, and of course
(blank) = Default group policy

Even in the case of a member looking at their Your Groups list, there are an irreducible three cases, if you combine the effect of group and individual settings:

'P' ~ may post without moderation,
'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and
'NP' ~ not allowed to post.

NOTE: the above meanings on the Your Groups list is a suggestion only. Currently they are implemented to exactly match your Posting Privilege in each group (the top five cases), unaltered by the group's settings. If you show no badge for a group, then you must refer to the group's settings to see how your posts would be handled.

-- Shal


vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

Shal >>>>P' ~ may post without moderation,
                   'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and 
                    'NP' ~ not allowed to post. 


 
" M "  Will  newbie members be able to read messages anyway?
 I prefer they not see group messages until they have P status
From experience newbie members  won't bother to reply   to  the questionnaire sent to them
upon joining  because some just want  to  get the group  members emails in the forum. 

M  though they are moderated   ideally they should not be able to read the group forum or members emails
or receive group messages. until status   is  changed to P 
In my group privacy is very important and members emails is very important to them to keep private  the group private until the member
shows participation with the group.


 
Vickie




From: Shal Farley <shals2nd@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: The badges on the My Groups page currently match those on the Members list.]

J,

> So in a group that is all moderated, does an unmoderated member have a
> 'P' next to their name?

In any kind of group, a member with the "Not moderated" override would have a 'P' next to their name.

> I just find it confusing to have a separate notation 'P' that really
> just means 'not M.'

'P' does not mean 'not M'.

There are five cases, all of which are of interest to a moderator looking at their Members list:

'P' = Override: not moderated,
'M' = Override: moderated,
'NuM' = Override: new user moderated,
'NP' = Override: not allowed to post, and of course
(blank) = Default group policy

Even in the case of a member looking at their Your Groups list, there are an irreducible three cases, if you combine the effect of group and individual settings:

'P' ~ may post without moderation,
'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and
'NP' ~ not allowed to post.

NOTE: the above meanings on the Your Groups list is a suggestion only. Currently they are implemented to exactly match your Posting Privilege in each group (the top five cases), unaltered by the group's settings. If you show no badge for a group, then you must refer to the group's settings to see how your posts would be handled.

-- Shal







Ro
 

We would then need a separate designation, because I am ok with moderated members reading posts.


Ro




Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 00:25:13 +0000
From: vickie_00@...
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

Shal >>>>P' ~ may post without moderation,
                   'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and 
                    'NP' ~ not allowed to post. 


 
" M "  Will  newbie members be able to read messages anyway?
 I prefer they not see group messages until they have P status
From experience newbie members  won't bother to reply   to  the questionnaire sent to them
upon joining  because some just want  to  get the group  members emails in the forum. 

M  though they are moderated   ideally they should not be able to read the group forum or members emails
or receive group messages. until status   is  changed to P 
In my group privacy is very important and members emails is very important to them to keep private  the group private until the member
shows participation with the group.


 
Vickie




From: Shal Farley <shals2nd@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: The badges on the My Groups page currently match those on the Members list.]

J,

> So in a group that is all moderated, does an unmoderated member have a
> 'P' next to their name?

In any kind of group, a member with the "Not moderated" override would have a 'P' next to their name.

> I just find it confusing to have a separate notation 'P' that really
> just means 'not M.'

'P' does not mean 'not M'.

There are five cases, all of which are of interest to a moderator looking at their Members list:

'P' = Override: not moderated,
'M' = Override: moderated,
'NuM' = Override: new user moderated,
'NP' = Override: not allowed to post, and of course
(blank) = Default group policy

Even in the case of a member looking at their Your Groups list, there are an irreducible three cases, if you combine the effect of group and individual settings:

'P' ~ may post without moderation,
'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and
'NP' ~ not allowed to post.

NOTE: the above meanings on the Your Groups list is a suggestion only. Currently they are implemented to exactly match your Posting Privilege in each group (the top five cases), unaltered by the group's settings. If you show no badge for a group, then you must refer to the group's settings to see how your posts would be handled.

-- Shal







vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

You might as well unmoderate them if they are able to receive group messages and read the forum..

They don't have to participate with the forum, they can just contact the member directly to the  members accounts.
 

Vickie

 








From: Ro <recarlton@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

We would then need a separate designation, because I am ok with moderated members reading posts.


Ro




Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 00:25:13 +0000
From: vickie_00@...
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

Shal >>>>P' ~ may post without moderation,
                   'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and 
                    'NP' ~ not allowed to post. 


 
" M "  Will  newbie members be able to read messages anyway?
 I prefer they not see group messages until they have P status
From experience newbie members  won't bother to reply   to  the questionnaire sent to them
upon joining  because some just want  to  get the group  members emails in the forum. 

M  though they are moderated   ideally they should not be able to read the group forum or members emails
or receive group messages. until status   is  changed to P 
In my group privacy is very important and members emails is very important to them to keep private  the group private until the member
shows participation with the group.


 
Vickie




From: Shal Farley <shals2nd@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: The badges on the My Groups page currently match those on the Members list.]

J,

> So in a group that is all moderated, does an unmoderated member have a
> 'P' next to their name?

In any kind of group, a member with the "Not moderated" override would have a 'P' next to their name.

> I just find it confusing to have a separate notation 'P' that really
> just means 'not M.'

'P' does not mean 'not M'.

There are five cases, all of which are of interest to a moderator looking at their Members list:

'P' = Override: not moderated,
'M' = Override: moderated,
'NuM' = Override: new user moderated,
'NP' = Override: not allowed to post, and of course
(blank) = Default group policy

Even in the case of a member looking at their Your Groups list, there are an irreducible three cases, if you combine the effect of group and individual settings:

'P' ~ may post without moderation,
'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and
'NP' ~ not allowed to post.

NOTE: the above meanings on the Your Groups list is a suggestion only. Currently they are implemented to exactly match your Posting Privilege in each group (the top five cases), unaltered by the group's settings. If you show no badge for a group, then you must refer to the group's settings to see how your posts would be handled.

-- Shal










 

Vickie,

" M " Will newbie members be able to read messages anyway?
Yes, of course (if any member can, that is). The status badges I'm talking about refer only to posting privileges, not to what they can access.

... ideally they should not be able to read the group forum or members
emails or receive group messages. until status is changed to P.
In my group privacy is very important and members emails is very
important to them to keep private the group private until the member
shows participation with the group.
It sounds like you should simply not approve those "members", if they shouldn't be given access to group messages or other resources. I'm unclear on how they then show participation, but that's more a group management question than a product features question.

Or maybe what you're looking for is a kind of "probationary" membership. Something more than a non-member or pending member, but with fewer access rights than a permanent member. That would be something novel, I haven't thought about what that might mean.

It is possible that you can get this kind of feature by using a subgroup for "permanent" members - you could add someone to the subgroup only when they've exhibited "good" behavior in the main group. Access to messages (and other resources) in the subgroup can be restricted to subgroup members.


-- Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


 

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 02:55 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
'NuM' = Override: new user moderated,

 Shal,

I'm still trying to check that it's all consistent. And I don't think it's 100% consistent yet.

For example, you note the above designation NuM. However, the two members whose status i changed to "override, can post" did not have the NuM designation before I did that. Instead, they went from [nothing] to "P."

Also, there is still the issue of how the "P" goes away. Perhaps Mark could clarify this (or I'll run a little experiment). Does it go away, for instance, as soon as the member has posted x number of posts, even though those posts did not have to be approved (because they were unmoderated)? Or does the system still count only approvals, in which case the "P" would have to (essentially) be removed manually by a moderator undoing the exception to the default?

I think there are more than five cases, because there is also a temporal (historical) aspect. I think the cleanest thing would be to get rid of the "P" altogether. As you yourself point out, Shal, an owner of a moderated group knows their group is unmoderated (and vice-versa). So anyone without the "M" designation would be an exception to that. 

J




Ro
 

Thats a matter of how one wishes the group to function.   I dont moderate new members, I only moderate people who have not followed group rules in their postings. I have no desire to cut them off from reading posts.  Many Yahoo groups are like this, and some, fully moderated forever like the raw feeding groups, feline cancer, etc.  People can certainly read posts there.   Some group owners simply want to moderate new members till they have shown they can follow group rules such as trimming posts, etc.  No need there to prohibit the reading of other emails. 

But the fact that we might run our groups differently is really immaterial.  Simply put, the suggestion that moderated people should not be able to read others posts will not fit all group owners.   If such a setting were created, the alternate setting should be preserved, and that is all I meant to say. 


Ro






Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 00:40:49 +0000
From: vickie_00@...
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

You might as well unmoderate them if they are able to receive group messages and read the forum..

They don't have to participate with the forum, they can just contact the member directly to the  members accounts.
 

Vickie

 








From: Ro <recarlton@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

We would then need a separate designation, because I am ok with moderated members reading posts.


Ro




Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 00:25:13 +0000
From: vickie_00@...
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

Shal >>>>P' ~ may post without moderation,
                   'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and 
                    'NP' ~ not allowed to post. 


 
" M "  Will  newbie members be able to read messages anyway?
 I prefer they not see group messages until they have P status
From experience newbie members  won't bother to reply   to  the questionnaire sent to them
upon joining  because some just want  to  get the group  members emails in the forum. 

M  though they are moderated   ideally they should not be able to read the group forum or members emails
or receive group messages. until status   is  changed to P 
In my group privacy is very important and members emails is very important to them to keep private  the group private until the member
shows participation with the group.


 
Vickie




From: Shal Farley <shals2nd@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: The badges on the My Groups page currently match those on the Members list.]

J,

> So in a group that is all moderated, does an unmoderated member have a
> 'P' next to their name?

In any kind of group, a member with the "Not moderated" override would have a 'P' next to their name.

> I just find it confusing to have a separate notation 'P' that really
> just means 'not M.'

'P' does not mean 'not M'.

There are five cases, all of which are of interest to a moderator looking at their Members list:

'P' = Override: not moderated,
'M' = Override: moderated,
'NuM' = Override: new user moderated,
'NP' = Override: not allowed to post, and of course
(blank) = Default group policy

Even in the case of a member looking at their Your Groups list, there are an irreducible three cases, if you combine the effect of group and individual settings:

'P' ~ may post without moderation,
'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and
'NP' ~ not allowed to post.

NOTE: the above meanings on the Your Groups list is a suggestion only. Currently they are implemented to exactly match your Posting Privilege in each group (the top five cases), unaltered by the group's settings. If you show no badge for a group, then you must refer to the group's settings to see how your posts would be handled.

-- Shal










 

Ro, no worries. That's not going to happen. New members will be allowed to read posts.
J

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Ro <recarlton@...> wrote:
We would then need a separate designation, because I am ok with moderated members reading posts.


Ro




Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 00:25:13 +0000
From: vickie_00=yahoo.com@groups.io
To: beta@groups.io

Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

Shal >>>>P' ~ may post without moderation,
                   'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and 
                    'NP' ~ not allowed to post. 


 
" M "  Will  newbie members be able to read messages anyway?
 I prefer they not see group messages until they have P status
From experience newbie members  won't bother to reply   to  the questionnaire sent to them
upon joining  because some just want  to  get the group  members emails in the forum. 

M  though they are moderated   ideally they should not be able to read the group forum or members emails
or receive group messages. until status   is  changed to P 
In my group privacy is very important and members emails is very important to them to keep private  the group private until the member
shows participation with the group.


 
Vickie




From: Shal Farley <shals2nd@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] "P" next to member name

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: The badges on the My Groups page currently match those on the Members list.]

J,

> So in a group that is all moderated, does an unmoderated member have a
> 'P' next to their name?

In any kind of group, a member with the "Not moderated" override would have a 'P' next to their name.

> I just find it confusing to have a separate notation 'P' that really
> just means 'not M.'

'P' does not mean 'not M'.

There are five cases, all of which are of interest to a moderator looking at their Members list:

'P' = Override: not moderated,
'M' = Override: moderated,
'NuM' = Override: new user moderated,
'NP' = Override: not allowed to post, and of course
(blank) = Default group policy

Even in the case of a member looking at their Your Groups list, there are an irreducible three cases, if you combine the effect of group and individual settings:

'P' ~ may post without moderation,
'M' ~ posts will be moderated, and
'NP' ~ not allowed to post.

NOTE: the above meanings on the Your Groups list is a suggestion only. Currently they are implemented to exactly match your Posting Privilege in each group (the top five cases), unaltered by the group's settings. If you show no badge for a group, then you must refer to the group's settings to see how your posts would be handled.

-- Shal








Duane
 

The P never goes away because you set them to Over ride - Not Moderated. If you change them to the group default, the P will go away. You can switch the group from Moderated to Unmoderated if need be, say if a "fight" breaks out. I'm pretty sure that the letters are used to specify anything other than Group Default, whichever way it's set.

Duane


 

J,

For example, you note the above designation NuM. However, the two
members whose status i changed to "override, can post" did not have the
NuM designation before I did that.
You must check the "New Users Moderated" box, and then enable the "Unmoderate after" in feature in your group's Settings before "NuM" will be applied to members when they join (it will not be applied retroactively to members who've already joined, no matter how recently).

Also, there is still the issue of how the "P" goes away.
It goes away when you take it away.

"NuM" is the only override setting that goes away automatically, and it converts to "Default group policy" when the "Unmoderate after" condition has been satisfied.

I think there are more than five cases, because there is also a temporal
(historical) aspect.
Nope. "NuM" is the only one with a temporal aspect (which is actually an approval count, not a time period per se).

So anyone without the "M" designation would be an exception to that.
M, P, NuM and NP are all exceptions to (overrides of) the group moderation setting.


-- Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


 

If the P never goes away, then I would call it more of a nuisance than a help. In the case of a new member who is set to be allowed to post, they're no longer a new member after x amount of posts.  So in that case the P just creates more, rather than less, work for the moderator. I'm sure there are other, similar cases.
J

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
The P never goes away because you set them to Over ride - Not Moderated.  If you change them to the group default, the P will go away.  You can switch the group from Moderated to Unmoderated if need be, say if a "fight" breaks out.  I'm pretty sure that the letters are used to specify anything other than Group Default, whichever way it's set.

Duane







 

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 05:30 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

You must check the "New Users Moderated" box, and then enable the "Unmoderate after" in feature in your group's Settings before "NuM" will be applied to members when they join (it will not be applied retroactively to members who've already joined, no matter how recently).

I'm familiar with how that works. I'm suggesting that the way "P" works is inconsistent with that (or de minimus, a PITA) IF it doesn't go away automatically when the member ceases to be "new," just as "NuM" goes away after x number of posts. We still don't know, unless someone has tried this, whether it does until we hear from Mark. I personally haven't done the experiment yet.