Topics

locked Notice of Pricing Change

 

Hi All,

Because the conversation had devolved, I put this topic on moderation last night before I went to bed, and will be locking it this morning, without approving any of the messages sent last night. Apropos of nothing, here is a picture of Linus.

small linus.jpeg

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 2:28 PM Mark Fletcher via Groups.Io <markf=corp.groups.io@groups.io> wrote:

Like everyone, we were taken by surprise when Yahoo announced they will be shutting down Yahoo Groups in just a few short weeks. Groups.io runs a world-class email groups service and has quickly been recognized as the best migration option for Yahoo Groups users. We are flattered by this recognition, and have been overwhelmed with traffic and group transfer requests as a result. We have spent the days since Yahoo's announcement diligently adding new server capacity and starting to work through an unprecedented number of transfer requests.

Fortunately, Groups.io has always been built to scale and already has a user base in excess of 1 million users today. In order to accommodate this major growth phase while maintaining our excellent service levels and industry-leading functionality, we will need to adjust our pricing as follows. As of 9AM Pacific Time, October 22:

  1. The annual fee for premium groups is $20/month or $220/year. (Premium groups in existence before that date are grandfathered in at their current fee.)

  2. As is already the case, all transferred groups are required to be premium groups for the first year. The $220 transfer fee counts for the premium fee, so once having paid the transfer fee, transferred groups are exempt from paying the premium fee for the first year.

  3. All new basic (non-premium) groups are required to be premium groups if they have, or acquire, more than 500 members or more than 3 subgroups. (Basic groups in existence before October 22 at 9AM remain unlimited for now; however, next year we will be looking at readjusting our pricing structure and moving away from a flat rate fee and towards a more equitable per-member cost. We will keep you posted about all of this as we work through the process.)

As you know, Yahoo has given us incredibly short deadlines. New content cannot be uploaded to Yahoo Groups after October 28 and all user generated content will be deleted from Yahoo Groups on December 14. To ensure that we have enough time to export all data off of Yahoo, we have set a deadline of midnight, December 1 Pacific Time for all new transfer requests to be received. Assuming that Yahoo doesn’t have any server issues, we believe that we’ll be able to export all data out of Yahoo before they delete all the data. However, in order to maintain a high level of service to our existing customers, we cannot import groups into our service as fast as we can export them out of Yahoo. There may be some delay before we can import all groups. If you wish to have your transfer prioritized, the group transfer page allows you to pay an additional one-time fee of $200 (this will go live at 9AM Pacific Time, October 22).

We welcome the opportunity to elevate the groups email experience for Yahoo users. We are committed to making the migration process as seamless as possible. Thank you for choosing Groups.io.

Thanks, Mark

 

You are welcome to the last word.

Susan B


On Oct 23, 2019, at 12:41 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Susan,
No one is forcing you to agree with my views or anyone else's here. We don't need to discuss the fact that we obviously disagree with each other. This is not a private conversation. We are expressing our views and that's fine. It's not necessary to keep insisting that my own opinion is my own opinion lol.

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 9:39 PM Susan B <doggiesmail@...> wrote:
J. Olivia
A to Z I don’t agree with your views at all. 

Sorry.
Susan B


On Oct 23, 2019, at 12:32 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 09:25 PM, Susan B wrote:
That is in your opinion of course.
As it says in my signature: sole opinion of the author. That said, I've seen people here whine and yell (with caps and exclamation marks) that "all our files are going to be lost!" in the same breath in which they blame Mark for charging them money to save it.

It is not Mark's fault that "all their files are going to be lost." That's a combination of yahoo and their own intransigence in ignoring the signs of yahoo's demise. And if you want to give these folks the benefit of the doubt, you can say it's entirely yahoo's fault. But still: not Mark's. Not at all. And they (or some of them) blame him. 

That part is not a matter of opinion.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu





--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Susan,
No one is forcing you to agree with my views or anyone else's here. We don't need to discuss the fact that we obviously disagree with each other. This is not a private conversation. We are expressing our views and that's fine. It's not necessary to keep insisting that my own opinion is my own opinion lol.

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 9:39 PM Susan B <doggiesmail@...> wrote:
J. Olivia
A to Z I don’t agree with your views at all. 

Sorry.
Susan B


On Oct 23, 2019, at 12:32 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 09:25 PM, Susan B wrote:
That is in your opinion of course.
As it says in my signature: sole opinion of the author. That said, I've seen people here whine and yell (with caps and exclamation marks) that "all our files are going to be lost!" in the same breath in which they blame Mark for charging them money to save it.

It is not Mark's fault that "all their files are going to be lost." That's a combination of yahoo and their own intransigence in ignoring the signs of yahoo's demise. And if you want to give these folks the benefit of the doubt, you can say it's entirely yahoo's fault. But still: not Mark's. Not at all. And they (or some of them) blame him. 

That part is not a matter of opinion.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

J. Olivia
A to Z I don’t agree with your views at all. 

Sorry.
Susan B


On Oct 23, 2019, at 12:32 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 09:25 PM, Susan B wrote:
That is in your opinion of course.
As it says in my signature: sole opinion of the author. That said, I've seen people here whine and yell (with caps and exclamation marks) that "all our files are going to be lost!" in the same breath in which they blame Mark for charging them money to save it.

It is not Mark's fault that "all their files are going to be lost." That's a combination of yahoo and their own intransigence in ignoring the signs of yahoo's demise. And if you want to give these folks the benefit of the doubt, you can say it's entirely yahoo's fault. But still: not Mark's. Not at all. And they (or some of them) blame him. 

That part is not a matter of opinion.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 09:25 PM, Susan B wrote:
That is in your opinion of course.
As it says in my signature: sole opinion of the author. That said, I've seen people here whine and yell (with caps and exclamation marks) that "all our files are going to be lost!" in the same breath in which they blame Mark for charging them money to save it.

It is not Mark's fault that "all their files are going to be lost." That's a combination of yahoo and their own intransigence in ignoring the signs of yahoo's demise. And if you want to give these folks the benefit of the doubt, you can say it's entirely yahoo's fault. But still: not Mark's. Not at all. And they (or some of them) blame him. 

That part is not a matter of opinion.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

J. Olivia,
That is in your opinion of course. Seems to me that many are struggling to cope with two chaotic events at the same time and are feeling pretty beat up and desperate.

Susan B



On Oct 22, 2019, at 11:41 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:13 PM, Susan B wrote:
don’t believe they are intending to shift the burden
But that's what they are doing.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


AG1P Ron
 

I appreciate the difficult situation Mark is in.  I know first-hand what it means when your usage exceeds contract bands of service.  I used to work for an outsourcer before burnout set in.

The rub comes when you have small groups of maybe a hundred or fewer people that are doing good things for humanity - like sharing info on rare childhood diseases or cancer types where the data will be lost if not moved. I am webmaster for a group that fortunately can afford the higher costs but it wasn’t that long ago we were struggling to survive. I know Mark is swamped but maybe come up with a set of qualifications for free or low cost services for those groups whose content would cause detriment to those who really don’t need any more chaos or unknowns in their life. Not many of us have a conscience permitting us to let a child die because they weren’t able to get shared experience data that might save their child’s life. Just charge extra to those who can afford to pay more and ask for donations to cover costs similar to what many local power companies do for emergency assistance.  We are on fixed income but  still donate a few bucks every month in hope that someone or some people keep their power going.

 

Ron

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 8:41 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Notice of Pricing Change

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:13 PM, Susan B wrote:

don’t believe they are intending to shift the burden

But that's what they are doing.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:13 PM, Susan B wrote:
don’t believe they are intending to shift the burden
But that's what they are doing.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

Maria, 
If you think about it, everyone is going to have a slightly or largely different take on this. I don’t think anyone can expect another group owner to feel the same as they do, no matter what great reasons are put forth. All their circumstances are unique. What’s easy for one is very difficult for someone else. What may be true for one group may be very wrong for another. I may very much agree with many of your points. But on the other hand, others just may not see it that way and I don’t believe they are intending to shift the burden, I think they are trying very hard to cope with many things that are unexpected. 

Susan B




On Oct 22, 2019, at 11:00 PM, Maria via Groups.Io <m.conway11@...> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 09:49 PM, Janis wrote:
It is wonderful to have my groups free of ads now.
Isn't it?
You know what's also wonderful? To have:

- No farming of our data
- No submission of our data to ad tracking networks
- Barely any downtime in the past 3 years our group has been here
- Things actually work - unlike back when we too were on Y!groups
- frequent updates and improvements
- more features than Y!groups ever dreamed of

You have all heard the saying - if it's free, you are the product?
I think that's mostly true when it comes to other group platforms. They are either marketing your data or ad based.  That's their business model.
But not the one here.

And furthermore, even when it comes to that saying, Groups.io is an exception and reflects the integrity that drives it: they could exploit the groups that are hosted for free - but they don't.
Think about that.
Then think about how candid and straight forward it was to simply say that pricing for transfers needed to be adjusted to reflect a need to strengthen infrastructure and deal with this huge sudden influx.

So, seriously, for those with groups who are not helping them reach the financial goal to deal with the very reasonable transfer fee, please don't shift the burden of that problem on the service that is offering you a solution. It's not cool. I understand the frustration and I feel bad for all those who didn't read all the signs years ago that Y! was sunsetting it's service, but please figure it out, or ask for help on how to figure it out. It will be the best investment in your groups.

This platform is so worth it.

Maria

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:08 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
the genie filnally lets the person out of the bottle,
someone else (not the genie) had trapped the person in the bottle :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:00 PM, Maria wrote:
please don't shift the burden of that problem on the service that is offering you a solution. It's not cool.
Yes! It reminds me of that fairy tale where the genie filnally lets the person out of the bottle, and the person kills the genie. Or something. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Maria
 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 09:49 PM, Janis wrote:
It is wonderful to have my groups free of ads now.
Isn't it?
You know what's also wonderful? To have:

- No farming of our data
- No submission of our data to ad tracking networks
- Barely any downtime in the past 3 years our group has been here
- Things actually work - unlike back when we too were on Y!groups
- frequent updates and improvements
- more features than Y!groups ever dreamed of

You have all heard the saying - if it's free, you are the product?
I think that's mostly true when it comes to other group platforms. They are either marketing your data or ad based.  That's their business model.
But not the one here.

And furthermore, even when it comes to that saying, Groups.io is an exception and reflects the integrity that drives it: they could exploit the groups that are hosted for free - but they don't.
Think about that.
Then think about how candid and straight forward it was to simply say that pricing for transfers needed to be adjusted to reflect a need to strengthen infrastructure and deal with this huge sudden influx.

So, seriously, for those with groups who are not helping them reach the financial goal to deal with the very reasonable transfer fee, please don't shift the burden of that problem on the service that is offering you a solution. It's not cool. I understand the frustration and I feel bad for all those who didn't read all the signs years ago that Y! was sunsetting it's service, but please figure it out, or ask for help on how to figure it out. It will be the best investment in your groups.

This platform is so worth it.

Maria

Janis
 

Mark, 
I think we all understand the havoc YG has caused by not announcing the website shut down months ago and giving groups more time to preserve archives, and find a new group home. I have even worried that your team would not be able to do all the requested transfers before Dec. 14. And we understand the extra cost incurred by your business sincd the YG announcement.by

The only issue is the short notice for the price change.  I actually thought one reason for the price change was to get everyone to hurry up and nmake a decision and get the transfer requests in ASAP so you have an idea how many you will have to deal with and can get all our YG stuff copied in time.
The short notice forced a decision for those of us waiting to upgrade. I found about the price change last night about 10 p m CDT and first thing this morning upgraded all 4 of my groups. 2 do not need transfers. The other two have transfer s started this morning. Glad I did it. We had a choice not to wait for the price change to take effect. I won't charge my members. It has always been my group and my sole decision to move here to save our message archives instead of abandoning the group.message

Thanks for your hard work and for keeping the site ad free! I just found out about this site a few days ago from a LifeHacker article on Apple. News. What a lucky find! 😄 I love Groups.io!

Janis

I like your cats too. You could probably have a place for all t he cat loving members to upload our cat photos!  Just for fun!

Janis
 

My two cents worth:

There are no ads showing in our groups and our personal pae on Groups.io  yahoo is not free. We pay for the service at Yahoo groups by having annoying ads in our medsage board and underneath the list of topics. Probably why they sre going away. I read that one of the reasons for YG shutting down the group online pages is that people are using thebemail and not visiting the group. So they are not seeing the ads. Advertisers do not like that!

It is wonderful to have my groups free of ads now.

And wonderful to be able to have a site that is transfering my members, files, photis, links and best of all message archives.

One of the groups I am a member of is going to Facebook. They cannot move the ir 16 years of messages, except by  saving a few in pdf files. And the group owner is spending everyday trying to move files.  They are also losing members eho dislike Facebook or who do not want to bother with it.

I am thrilled I found the Groups.io site. I only found out about it because one of my group members shsred an Apple News LifeHacker article with us. The writer recommended Groups.io as the best option for those of us abandoned by Yahoo Groups.  He listed a few other options including Facebook, but only recommended Groups.io. 

Janis

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 05:24 PM, deborah75001 wrote:
It is easy to be sarcastic when you are already on io groups and have transferred a long time ago.
I am far from being sarcastic. I am dead serious.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

Shal,
Thank you for your suggestions. I have had similar thoughts about this. 

Susan B

 

I don't understand something. Under the $110 fee we were going to be able to convert to free after one year. Is this still true? Because if it isn't, I don't think our group will be able to afford to stay here. That would be so sad after all the work we have done to get here.

Can someone please tell me?
Thank you

Susan B

GtownCycler
 

Is there any room for negotiation here at all? I created my group (a Freecycle group, so you can understand the mindset of the members) here on October 16, with the intent of migrating our existing group from yahoogroups (as many did, I am sure). I ran a "pledge drive" to raise the $110 Premium membership, finally getting the final donation this morning. Then I came here to upgrade my group, only to find that the cost had doubled with no warning whatsoever. I cannot go back the group now and say "whoops, sorry! Need another $110!".

If there's no way around this, I'll just have to refund the donations and go the free route. This was extremely disappointing after all the work I had put into raising the funds.

deborah75001
 

answer to @catlady

It is easy to be sarcastic when you are already on io groups and have transferred a long time ago.

please understand that I am talking on behalf of several groups who are in FRAnce, with members and moderators only understanding FRENCH, who have no idea, who do not know io groups, who have no money and need help with their handicaped adopted children !

Do you think it is easy for them to understand that keeping their group will cost 110 dollars, even more 220 dollars, and this overnight notice, and then change again?
They are pretty freaked out to say the least.

I have not been present here all the time, had no idea Yahoo would close since they seemed to be going on after all ...

Nobody is happy with yahoo policies, but then this week has been really crazy. We have been submitted to pressure and variable deadlines overnight (remember we live in a different time zone and it is now 2 am in my country where I do not sleep yet).

So can we have an additionnal deadline for price increase, as this is far too short notice for us and many grassroots groups, of which moderators do need first to get the information and process it with their members ?

Deborah

deborah75001
 

Mark, THanks for changing the conditions again! 

Let us summarize the last days.

After the yahoo announcement I was trying to get my members to accept the transfer and figuring out how to collect the 110 dollars, under the first conditions.

then on the night of october 21st, we were told that it was either 110 dollars OVERNIGHT or else 220 dollars for the transfer and first year and then 220 dollars every additionnal year. Under these circumstances, I knew my groups would never follow and even more: that meant transfering with the knowledge of that transfer would NOT be sustainable and be able to survive after one year. So I declined.

Then on october 22nd, in the late evening, I find again another change: now groups would continue to be for free even if more than 500 members. So we were reverted to the first terms and conditions. Which I would have accepted, given that we need a little time to organize ourselves and we cannot do this overnight.

Many people on the YG have not yet even understood that the groups would close, that some of us are trying to migrate, that it will have a cost.
I cannot put down my credit card for paying the transfer of 2 groups without knowing my groups will reimburse me in some way. That needs a number of exchanges on our yahoo groups to organize !

So again: I think I can do the move at the 110 dollars cost. Not at the 220 dollars cost. And I need about 2 weeks to organize it, I cannot do this overnight.

Is there still a possibility or is it now closed?

Deborah from Paris, France.
Groups created on io october 21st.