Topics

Notifications overall: Messages

 

Hi All,

Here is another scenario with the new notifications system proposal.

One of the Notifications preferences would be 'Messages'. 

'Email only' setting - no change to existing behavior.
'Email and web/app' - no change to existing message email delivery behavior. You would also get a notification whenever someone posted a message in the group (even if your message delivery is set to digest or summary).
'Web/app only' - you would no longer receive messages via email, regardless of your subscription setting. You would only receive notifications of messages posted.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark

 

I really like this idea.

I'm still having trouble, though, seeing this plan component in the context of the overall plan.Would, for example, the other Preference categories be Photos? Files? I don't have a picture of where does the Messages preference fits into the overall thing. In any case, I love this idea of getting pinged whenever there's a new message.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

Mark,

'Web/app only' - you would no longer receive messages via email,
regardless of your subscription setting. You would only receive
notifications of messages posted.
This (along with #cal-invite) is a good example where I would not want this behavior overriding all of my subscriptions.

On the other hand, maybe that's because I'm not thinking about this from the point of view of an app user (I have no plans to install the app). So "web/app only" is a choice I would never make. As an email-centric user who frequently visits the site for specific tasks (mostly moderation related) I would likely only use the "Email and Web/App" setting.

Or maybe your first idea was right, and email-centric users will most likely opt out of the Notifications altogether, preferring "Email only". I'm not entirely sure I see a use case for having both: if you have email then dealing with the bell may be just busy-work. Again that comes from my perspective where things happening on the web site are a priori lower priority than things in email.

Even imagining myself an app user though, I still suspect that I might desire different levels of involvement with different groups. I probably would want my mobile device to "ding" for new messages in groups I moderate or am following closely, but not for those I only read at leisure. The existing email subscription options give me this flexibility, but it seems like the app would be "all in" or "all out".

Shal

 

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 09:04 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
I still suspect that I might desire different levels of involvement with different groups.
Same here. But it wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

J,

In any case, I love this idea of getting pinged whenever there's a new
message.
Meh.

The Gmail app on my phone already does this for me, in those groups where I am on individual messages. Likewise the Thunderbird app for my desktop.

Shal
app-Luddite

 

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:03 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
'Web/app only' - you would no longer receive messages via email, regardless
of your subscription setting. You would only receive notifications of
messages posted.
You're going to get users who ask why they're not getting email, when their setting clearly says they want email. And what about special notices?

Settings shouldn't override each other. How about just a checkbox, "Send me a notification for new messages", and let the existing email setting specify if they want email or not? That will also make it easier in the future if you want to further refine the notifications (say you add a feature for users who don't want to be notified of new messages but do want to be notified of new topics, for example).

JohnF

 

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 09:10 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
Meh. The Gmail app on my phone already does this for me,
Perhaps I should not have used the word "ping." I meant "notified" via the web/app - i.e., Mark's proposal.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Michael Pavan
 

There should also be a 'None' setting
This should be the default setting, so that those who don't want any or a particular type of Notification do not have to 'Opt-out'

One of the Notifications preferences would be 'Messages'.

'Email only' setting - no change to existing behavior.
'Email and web/app' - no change to existing message email delivery behavior. You would also get a notification whenever someone posted a message in the group (even if your message delivery is set to digest or summary).
'Web/app only' - you would no longer receive messages via email, regardless of your subscription setting. You would only receive notifications of messages posted.

Jeremy H
 

I like this idea - in the 'Notifications' area, just being able to say 'Notify me of this'. And I would be able to set it on a per group basis: there are some groups (that I am a member of) that I would wish to have notifications for, and others that I wouldn't.
And I agree notification settings shouldn't override other delivery settings (that's going to cause much confusion): perhaps at one level they should be alongside, almost one of, delivery options.

Jeremy

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 06:19 PM, JohnF wrote:
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 10:03 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
'Web/app only' - you would no longer receive messages via email, regardless
of your subscription setting. You would only receive notifications of
messages posted.
You're going to get users who ask why they're not getting email, when their setting clearly says they want email. And what about special notices?

Settings shouldn't override each other. How about just a checkbox, "Send me a notification for new messages", and let the existing email setting specify if they want email or not? That will also make it easier in the future if you want to further refine the notifications (say you add a feature for users who don't want to be notified of new messages but do want to be notified of new topics, for example).

JohnF

 

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 8:38 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I really like this idea.

I'm still having trouble, though, seeing this plan component in the context of the overall plan.Would, for example, the other Preference categories be Photos? Files? I don't have a picture of where does the Messages preference fits into the overall thing. In any case, I love this idea of getting pinged whenever there's a new message.

There will be notifications for all aspects of the site. So some additional notification preference categories will be Photos, Files, Wiki, Database, etc. This is very much like Facebook, where you can go into your notification settings page, and for each category, you can toggle 'Push', 'Email', 'SMS' as well as an overall toggle to turn on/off notifications for the entire category.

Actually, for any Facebook users, I'd appreciate it if you checked out their notification settings, at https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=notifications, to get an idea of how they do it.

The idea is to be able to be notified about any activity in any group you're a member of. Right now, you don't know when someone creates a new wiki page, unless they tell you, for example. You should have the option of being notified of that.

I am all for having a completely configurable notification system, but what I think is critical is to have a sane set of defaults, so that the majority of people never feel the need to go mucking about in it. 

Thanks,
Mark

Michael Pavan
 

Mark,

On Sep 9, 2019, at 1:35 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

There will be notifications for all aspects of the site. So some additional notification preference categories will be Photos, Files, Wiki, Database, etc. This is very much like Facebook, where you can go into your notification settings page, and for each category, you can toggle 'Push', 'Email', 'SMS' as well as an overall toggle to turn on/off notifications for the entire category.
On/off for each and every notification type (including items such as "Upcoming Event" subject prefixes, 'start and/or stop times' subject suffixes, and hashtags) will make Groups.io work better for everyone by not restricting or forcing any choices.


Actually, for any Facebook users, I'd appreciate it if you checked out their notification settings, at https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=notifications, to get an idea of how they do it.
Single toggles (on/off) each for 'all Push', 'all Email', and 'all SMS' notifications are missing in Facebook, please include them in Groups.io - it would make turning off (or on) all 'Push', 'Email', and/or 'SMS' easier.


The idea is to be able to be notified about any activity in any group you're a member of. Right now, you don't know when someone creates a new wiki page, unless they tell you, for example. You should have the option of being notified of that.
Good


I am all for having a completely configurable notification system,
Great
but what I think is critical is to have a sane set of defaults, so that the majority of people never feel the need to go mucking about in it.
Please allow Owner (and Moderators with appropriate permissions) to set the 'set of defaults' for the members of all and/or each of their groups - not just for new groups and future members, BUT have a grace period (30 days?) after you institute this Notification System reform for existing groups. This will start each groups' members with the set of sane defaults Owners believe is desirable in all and/or each of their groups, and should minimize the amount of assistance their members will need to modify their personal settings.

Thanks,
Michael

Pamela Tatt
 

I am not up with all the technical stuff but having notifications for Photos and Files would be a huge help to our members.
Thanks Mark for working on this.

Regards,
Pamela

 

Mark,

There will be notifications for all aspects of the site. So some
additional notification preference categories will be Photos, Files,
Wiki, Database, etc. This is very much like Facebook, where you can go
into your notification settings page, and for each category, you can
toggle 'Push', 'Email', 'SMS' as well as an overall toggle to turn
on/off notifications for the entire category.
Actually, many category seem to be set up somewhat differently. Comments, for example, has no overall toggle. Tags has an overall toggle which is actually three radio buttons, with Off not being one of the choices.

At the bottom there's a section for "How You Get Notifications", and for example within the Email "category" there is a list recapitulating of all of the "What Notifications You Receive" categories, with an on/off toggle for each. That confused me at first but as it turns out that's just the same list of controls, grouped by how instead of by what. So that's actually cool.

This approach implies to me that you envision that the setting for a given category controls notifications for that category across all of one's subscriptions.

As I mentioned before, I think that will be a problem for categories that already have their own control mechanism, such as Messages. Even for categories where notifications don't currently exist (web activities) I think I'm likely to want per-group control of whether I receive an email notification about it. Just because I'm more interested in the doings of some groups than others.

I am all for having a completely configurable notification system, but
what I think is critical is to have a sane set of defaults, so that
the majority of people never feel the need to go mucking about in it.
Maybe "Web/App and Email" for any categories that already exist, to grandfather the user's current selections, and "Web/App only" for any new ones, so as not to suddenly create unexpected emails when a new category is created.

Shal

 

Mark,

You wrote:

... as well as an overall toggle to turn on/off notifications for the entire category.

I wrote:

Tags has an overall toggle which is actually three radio buttons, with Off not being one of the
choices.

That gives me an idea.
Instead of an on/off togle for the category, a compromise might be a one-of-four selector: All Groups, Groups I Own or Moderate, Groups I Own, or Off. That probably covers most use cases for people more interested in some groups than others, without needing a toggle for each subscription.

I think I'd still rather have a toggle per group in each category (or maybe that should be a toggle per category in each group), but I can see where that might get a bit cluttered.

Shal

 

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 08:36 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:


additional notification preference categories will be Photos, Files, Wiki,
Database, etc. This is very much like Facebook, where you can go into your
notification settings page, and for each category, you can toggle 'Push',
'Email', 'SMS' as well as an overall toggle to turn on/off notifications for
the entire category.
I'd like an email digest notification option (no more frequent than once a day) for Photos (or for everything). Even if the member receives individual messages, not digests.

 

Lena wrote:

I'd like an email digest notification option (no more frequent than
once a day) for Photos (or for everything). Even if the member
receives individual messages, not digests.
That's a good point. Frequency is a dimension that has at least that one more possibility rather than just being an Immediate or Off toggle.

Maybe instead of the one-of-four selector I proposed in each category it should instead be a list of three selectors:
Groups I own,
Groups I moderate, and
Groups I neither own nor moderate.
For each of these select a delivery frequency: Immediate, Daily Digest, or Off.


On the subject of digests, maybe New Notifications should be added as a section at the bottom of the Daily Summary email, and the daily Digest email.

Shal

Michael Pavan
 

On Sep 10, 2019, at 4:30 AM, Shal Farley <@Shal> wrote:
Maybe instead of the one-of-four selector I proposed in each category it should instead be a list of three selectors:
Groups I own,
Groups I moderate, and
Groups I neither own nor moderate.
For each of these select a delivery frequency: Immediate, Daily Digest, or Off.
I want to be able NOT to have the same settings (notifications and frequency) for all the Groups I own, moderate, or belong to.
HOWEVER it would be convenient to select more than one group at a time (for those which the same settings are desired).