Topics

moderated #hashtags


Technotronic Dimensions
 

Noticed a while back that after I tagged a post with a subject with no hashtag, with one that is
related, any of the following subject replies didnt tie in to the 1st subject , even with the initial post
with same subject tagged.


 

Technotronic,
after I tagged a post with a subject with no hashtag, with one that is related, any of the following subject replies didnt tie in to the 1st subject , even with the initial post with same subject tagged.
That's because although both posts are inside the same hashtag, they have different subjects (with the first having no subject at all from what I understood).

So, as far as I could see, nothing unexpected :)

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.


KWKloeber
 

***any of the following subject replies didnt tie in to the 1st subject ***
 
Are you saying that all of the subsequent posts (after made the hashtag change) are under one separate/different (non #hashtag) topic??  
Or did each subsequent post end up under its own topic (i.e., several posts, different topics, having the same non-#hashtag subject)?

Virus-free. www.avg.com


KWKloeber
 


Loosely related I just noticed in our group replies to the original topic (aka subject aka thread) ended up with messages posted under these topics:
orig subj
orig subj
FW: orig subj 

obviously replies were via email, not web.io. 
Why?


 

Ken,


Loosely related I just noticed in our group replies to the original topic ... ended up with messages posted under these topics:
...
Why?


Shal


Technotronic Dimensions
 

1st topic didnt have a tag, and I manually added one days later. Few weeks went by, and someone replied,
but the tag on all the subsequent replies to the 1st topic didnt get tied in with the tag forced into the first post.

The 1st topic is completely seperated from all the subsequent replies now. All the subsequent replies are grouped together
but with no tag.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Kloeber via Groups.Io" <KWKloeber=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <main@beta.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] #hashtags


***any of the following subject replies didnt tie in to the 1st subject ***

Are you saying that all of the subsequent posts (after made the hashtag
change) are under one separate/different (non #hashtag) topic??
Or did each subsequent post end up under its own topic (i.e., several posts,
different topics, having the same non-#hashtag subject)?


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



Technotronic Dimensions
 

Initial post had a subject, and was later tagged.

As an experiment, find the 1st post in a subject thats not been tagged,
and tag it. Do all the rest of the replies now get tagged?

I dont think they do, and I would like an option to apply the new tag to the rest
of the posts in the same subject.

That's because although both posts are inside the same hashtag, they
have different subjects (with the first having no subject at all from
what I understood).
So, as far as I could see, nothing unexpected :)
Cheers,
Marcio <https://tinyurl.com/TlkTM>;
AKA /Starboy/


Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 04:49 PM, Technotronic Dimensions wrote:
As an experiment, find the 1st post in a subject thats not been tagged,
and tag it. Do all the rest of the replies now get tagged?
I must confess to being a bit lost in all this, but I think I may have spotted a misunderstanding.

A question: are the replies to an initial post correctly threaded below it when the topic is looked at on the web UI?

Assuming that they are then the hashtag applies to the Subject as displayed on the web UI, and is not replicated in each of the replies.

Chris


Technotronic Dimensions
 

The replies only, are grouped together. This is what I observed after I applied the tag
to the 1st subject. Its possible that after tagging the 1st post, the system now views the rest
of the replies as seperate topics. I thought that after tagging the 1st post, the tag would be recursively applied
to all the other replies, but this has not been the case.

Any other subject that has not been tagged, groups all the subjects fine.

*A question:* are the replies to an initial post correctly threaded below it when the topic is looked at on the web UI?


 

I noticed something weird about this just the other day after adding a hashtag to an already-existing topic. I haven't had time to thoroughly check it out yet but just adding my voice to "something funny seems to be going on."


On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 9:24 AM Technotronic Dimensions <steve@...> wrote:
The replies only, are grouped together. This is what I observed after I
applied the tag
to the 1st subject. Its possible that after tagging the 1st post, the system
now views the rest
of the replies as seperate topics. I thought that after tagging the 1st
post, the tag would be recursively applied
to all the other replies, but this has not been the case.

Any other subject that has not been tagged, groups all the subjects fine.

>>*A question:* are the replies to an initial post correctly threaded below
>>it when the topic is looked at on the web UI?






--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Drew
 

You added the hashtag to a message post in the archive. If someone replied to that message in the archive the reply would have been hashtagged also; but I think if they replied to the original un-hashtagged post that they received via email it would not carry the hashtag.

At least, that is my impression. I could be wrong about it.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On 08/29/19 10:28, Technotronic Dimensions wrote:
1st topic didnt have a tag, and I manually added one days later. Few weeks went by, and someone replied,
but the tag on all the subsequent replies to the 1st topic didnt get tied in with the tag forced into the first post.
The 1st topic is completely seperated from all the subsequent replies now. All the subsequent replies are grouped together
but with no tag.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Kloeber via Groups.Io" <KWKloeber=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <main@beta.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] #hashtags

***any of the following subject replies didnt tie in to the 1st subject ***

Are you saying that all of the subsequent posts (after made the hashtag
change) are under one separate/different (non #hashtag) topic??
Or did each subsequent post end up under its own topic (i.e., several posts,
different topics, having the same non-#hashtag subject)?


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com




 

Technotronic,
Ok, I think I figured out what's going on.

1st topic didnt have a tag, and I manually added one days later. Few weeks went by, and someone replied,  but the tag on all the subsequent replies to the 1st topic didnt get tied in with the tag forced into the first post.

The 1st topic is completely seperated from all the subsequent replies now. All the subsequent replies are grouped together  but with no tag. 
Here's what the Topics and the Threading Algorithm, on the Group Managersr Forum Wiki reads:
Posting by email with the same subject text causes them to thread together.
...
Here is the threading algorithm: If a message has threading information (i.e.: "References" and "In-Reply-To" entries in the message header), use that.
If a message does not have threading information:
  • If it's a web post (i.e.: not a reply), assume it's the start of a new thread
  • If the subject starts with Re:, look for a matching subject within the last 30 days
  • If the subject does not start with Re:, look for a matching subject within the last 2 days
Ref: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/12491

Questions:
  • What exactly do you mean by "few days later"?
  • What exactly do you mean by "few weeks went by"?

  • If your first answer is "more than 2 days" then that's the reason for this behavior.
  • Likewise, if your answer to the second question is "more than 30 days" (probably not) then, again, that's the reason for this behavior.

It's also possible that the person just replied, by email, to the first message they've got (in other words, the topic without  the edited and tagged subject).
In this case, I agree that the reply should be tagged, assuming the aforementioned conditions.

Not sure if it will, but hope this helps.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.


Technotronic Dimensions
 

Nope thats basicly what happened. I thought
the rest of the messages would get the tag if
the 1st message was later assigned a tag.

The replies , as well as the 1st post were all done via email.

Another observation thats related - is the tag gets added to
the subject line multiple times, when there is a reply via email
to a message that has the tag in the subject field already.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew" <pubx1@af2z.net>
To: <main@beta.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] #hashtags


You added the hashtag to a message post in the archive. If someone replied to that message in the archive the reply would have been hashtagged also; but I think if they replied to the original un-hashtagged post that they received via email it would not carry the hashtag.

At least, that is my impression. I could be wrong about it.

73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 08/29/19 10:28, Technotronic Dimensions wrote:
1st topic didnt have a tag, and I manually added one days later. Few weeks went by, and someone replied,
but the tag on all the subsequent replies to the 1st topic didnt get tied in with the tag forced into the first post.

The 1st topic is completely seperated from all the subsequent replies now. All the subsequent replies are grouped together
but with no tag.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Kloeber via Groups.Io" <KWKloeber=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <main@beta.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] #hashtags


***any of the following subject replies didnt tie in to the 1st subject ***

Are you saying that all of the subsequent posts (after made the hashtag
change) are under one separate/different (non #hashtag) topic??
Or did each subsequent post end up under its own topic (i.e., several posts,
different topics, having the same non-#hashtag subject)?


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com








KWKloeber
 

Confused!
Are we saying that adding a #HT in effect editing the topic (- or is that the “thread”? or the “subject”? or the “topic”? — I guess it doesn’t matter if consistently being inconsistent is being consistent <wink>) in effect creates a DIFFERENT thread?  And a msg reply to the old t/s/t doesn’t get hooked up with the revised t/s/t?   If so that seems pretty un handy.   It seems that replies within a reasonable period of time should ignore appended #HTs and get m threaded with the revised t/s/t. 

Or maybe I’m misinterpreting the business rules applied to the email subject lines?


Drew
 

Yes, unfortunately this makes hashtags a lot less useful than they otherwise would be.

For example, there is no point for a moderator to edit a message topic by adding a hashtag to a previously posted message if most of the subscribers participate in the group via email: they will all have received the original un-tagged post and their email followups to the original will be distributed as untagged.

Our group uses hashtags so that subscribers can filter message posts- both in the archive to selectively browse hashtagged topics that they are interested in, but also by email subscribers to mute tags that they don't want to receive. The current hashtag behavior makes the second task a lot less useful than it otherwise would be.

I might as well add a formerly mentioned feature request for hashtags: namely, the ability for online subscribers to mute specific hastagged topics while browsing the archive and filter them from view.

Drew

On 08/30/19 08:23, Technotronic Dimensions wrote:
Nope thats basicly what happened. I thought
the rest of the messages would get the tag if
the 1st message was later assigned a tag.
The replies , as well as the 1st post were all done via email.
Another observation thats related - is the tag gets added to
the subject line multiple times, when there is a reply via email
to a message that has the tag in the subject field already.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" <pubx1@af2z.net>
To: <main@beta.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] #hashtags

You added the hashtag to a message post in the archive. If someone replied to that message in the archive the reply would have been hashtagged also; but I think if they replied to the original un-hashtagged post that they received via email it would not carry the hashtag.

At least, that is my impression. I could be wrong about it.

73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 08/29/19 10:28, Technotronic Dimensions wrote:
1st topic didnt have a tag, and I manually added one days later. Few weeks went by, and someone replied,
but the tag on all the subsequent replies to the 1st topic didnt get tied in with the tag forced into the first post.

The 1st topic is completely seperated from all the subsequent replies now. All the subsequent replies are grouped together
but with no tag.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Kloeber via Groups.Io" <KWKloeber=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <main@beta.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] #hashtags


***any of the following subject replies didnt tie in to the 1st subject ***

Are you saying that all of the subsequent posts (after made the hashtag
change) are under one separate/different (non #hashtag) topic??
Or did each subsequent post end up under its own topic (i.e., several posts,
different topics, having the same non-#hashtag subject)?


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com









KWKloeber
 

<<<On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 09:52 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
Ken,
Shal >>>
Ok, but that doesn't explain why
orig subj
orig subj
ended up in different threads/subjects/topics (take your pick <wink> )
They are identical.   
Might the algorithm be updated to also ignore other commonly used? like RE:; [SPAM] etc (mind has temporarily gone blank)--  that an email client or other might tack on to the subject line?


 

Ken,

Shal Farley wrote:
Ken,
Ok, but that doesn't explain why ...

If that page needs correction or improvement please do so (that's what wikis are for). Or let's discuss it in GMF.
Shal


KWKloeber
 

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 04:59 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
Ken,
 
Shal Farley wrote:
Ken,
Ok, but that doesn't explain why ...
 
If that page needs correction or improvement please do so (that's what wikis are for). Or let's discuss it in GMF.
 
Shal
******
shal I haven’t a clue about updating the page, or it’s incorrect at all. 
You referred me to that page in reply to my question why two subject lines, identical, would end up in different threads. 
Mid you know why I’m all ears. If you don’t i surely don’t either so can’t revise the wiki page. 

The question pertains to the topic here - revising subject lines  and how the result ends up getting threaded. That said I’m happy to cross post on gmf but I would have nothing of substance to add at this point. 
 


Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 07:56 AM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
The question pertains to the topic here - revising subject lines  and how the result ends up getting threaded. That said I’m happy to cross post on gmf but I would have nothing of substance to add at this point. 
From my point of view this thread has generated more heat than light.

I have started a series of tests on Shal's test group and have found one "anomaly" (the quotation marks are important here) but until more has been done I will not report any detail back.

I reserve the right to report on GMF rather than here because I suspect that is the better place for it. I'll think a bit more about that...

Chris


 

Ken,

The question pertains to the topic here - revising subject lines and
how the result ends up getting threaded. That said I’m happy to cross
post on gmf but I would have nothing of substance to add at this
point.
I suggested the change in venue to stay in keeping with this group's mission, n.b. the beta group's home page description. Once the facts of "what is" are established it would make sense to return here with suggested changes, if any.

I haven’t a clue about updating the page, or it’s incorrect at all.
Whether the page is factually correct or not, I've inferred from your question that at the least it lacks sufficient clarity. Otherwise you should be able determine whether your example fits the description or not.

Hopefully Chris' investigation will ultimately lead to better clarity.

Shal