Topics

locked suggestion - Consistency (ies)


KWKloeber
 

A few little pet peeves:

We have - 
"Messages", but "Posts by members"
and
"New Topic" and "Edit Topic", but we add a new (and edit an old) "Subject"  (typically better known as a "thread")
So
Maybe we can call "Chats" also "Discussions"?
Suggest more consistency so it's more friendly to the "old dog" members who are not very savvy.

Also, suggest that "Subscription" would be better understood if it were (and really is) "Your Settings"

Thx


 

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 07:52 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
We have - 
"Messages", but "Posts by members"
As in "all posts by this member". Good catch, I agree.

New Topic" and "Edit Topic", but we add a new (and edit an old) "Subject"
In this case I disagree. You can't add a new subject (as far as I can tell), and when you edit a "subject," you are really editing the subject line of the topic.

Maybe we can call "Chats" also "Discussions"?
I don't see why you'd want to do that. I thought you wanted consistency? Why not keep it consistent and always call them chats?

"Subscription" would be better understood if it were (and really is) "Your Settings"
I absolutely agree with this one. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


ro-esp
 

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 04:52 AM, Ken Kloeber wrote:

Maybe we can call "Chats" also "Discussions"?
I'm not sure what "chats" are, but I definitely oppose calling messages "discussions" the way some of groups.io's big competitors do.

Messages that don't get answers are not *discussions*


groetjes, Ronaldo


Bob Bellizzi
 

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 09:00 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
"Subscription" would be better understood if it were (and really is) "Your Settings"
I absolutely agree with this one. 
But, isn't Subscription, in this case, your  unique settings for(only) this group?
 
--

Bob Bellizzi


 

Yes, but so what? 


On Aug 19, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 09:00 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
"Subscription" would be better understood if it were (and really is) "Your Settings"
I absolutely agree with this one. 
But, isn't Subscription, in this case, your  unique settings for(only) this group?
 
--

Bob Bellizzi


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Bob Bellizzi
 

That need to be clearly stated.  Not all rank & file members implicitly understand there is a difference between Subscription function and Account function.
--

Bob Bellizzi


 

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 04:19 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
That need to be clearly stated. 
I think it would be pretty clear, since it would still be along the left with all the other group-specific stuff. But who knows.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


KWKloeber
 

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 12:00 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
New Topic" and "Edit Topic", but we add a new (and edit an old) "Subject"
In this case I disagree. You can't add a new subject (as far as I can tell), and when you edit a "subject," you are really editing the subject line of the topic.


So you can see by my "test subject/topic edit" (ie, my last "Post"/"Message" - or maybe it's when I "posted" my last "message"?) -  we actually create a NEW topic (not an editied subject under the same topic.)  Conclusion - it's FUBAR.  Lets chuck it and start over.

-k


KWKloeber
 

(continuing to complain)  ;-),

THIS is "SUBSCRIPTIONS":



and THIS is "MY SETTINGS," not "my subsription"


 

Ken,


(continuing to complain)  ;-),

Meh.

THIS is "SUBSCRIPTIONS":

That is a list of your subscriptions. Aka your group memberships. Aka Your Groups.

I'd actually prefer to have that tab be named Your Subscriptions, or even Your Memberships, but long ago those were deemed to make the column awkwardly wide. Leaving out "Your" might not be so bad, but it does make it less clear what's on the page.

and THIS is "MY SETTINGS," not "my subsription"

Those are the settings of one of your subscriptions. Aka your Subscription to that group. I would not want that page renamed "My Settings" because that would be confusing in contrast to the several pages of settings in your Account. I wouldn't mind having it named Your Subscription, but again there is the column width issue.

Shal


KWKloeber
 

Shal

i prefer MY.  “My Computer”

My subs or my groups. 

The second is My Settings for This Group. 
How to shorten this? Certainly not by changing the meaning to Subscription. I know I’m subscribed to this group. 
Have we already run out of 2nd lines on the planet? I missed the breaking news in CNN.
Many side bars use two lines for a link. 


 

Ken,


i prefer MY.  “My Computer”

I believe that was discussed long ago here in beta, it is a matter of style and Mark made a choice.

Pedantically that's a list of your subscriptions, not his. Your makes more sense to me because you are visiting a web site - you're virtually outside your house -- in that context my actually does carry the connotation of referring to someone else's (your host's) possession. This is a different context than the example of My Computer.


How to shorten this? Certainly not by changing the meaning to Subscription.

When looking at a group's page that link is the only one that contains information specific to your personal subscription in this group. I think Subscription is a much more focused and appropriate word here in the context of the side links than "Settings". Possessive pronoun or lack thereof notwithstanding.

A second reason is that the word Settings is already taken in that list, albeit that's only seen by group owners and mods. Given that all of the links are links to something in the group, (even your subscription) changing this one to Group Settings would seem redundant.

Shal


 

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 06:31 AM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
Have we already run out of 2nd lines on the planet? I missed the breaking news in CNN.
Can live without the political commentary, thanks.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 8:09 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 06:31 AM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
Have we already run out of 2nd lines on the planet? I missed the breaking news in CNN.
Can live without the political commentary, thanks.

I agree that politics are not appropriate on beta, but I read this as simply a joke and and having nothing to do with politics.

To be back on topic, I'm definitely for conserving our limited worldwide 2nd line supplies (they're very difficult to recycle/reuse, don't you know), and therefore am against having two lines in the sidebar. :)

Thanks,
Mark


KWKloeber
 

[avoding over quoting]  Shal, I get your point that's a matter of style, so there's no "rule" as you try to point to.  It's a matter of "direction."  Talking to the screen, the settings are "my" (mine) - I own them, I set them, I control them.  The screen talking back - they are "your"s  -- you own them, you set them - but I abide by them. I would say "you put on YOUR pants" but you would say I put on MY pants.

Note that the confusion complaints aren't by seasoned users that can go to plan B if a menu looks odd or doesn't supply the info or choices one expects,  We can click around and find what we want.  Put their shoes on -- It's those who are afraid that clicking something they aren't supposed to might blow up the world, or at least their laptop. 
Settings can occur in different areas.  Account settings, communication settings, display settings, bla bla.  But subscriptions is what I am subscribed to (a list of them where I can manage them?)  Now, if it were called This particular subscription's settings (opposed to another subscription's settings) then maybe novices could understand that better.  but "subscription" is confusing -- doesn't convey any readably recognizable context as to what comes next in the clicking order.  At least "Preferences" (display, communication, etc) would be recognizable.
But regardless, consistency is the key - when one goes from one screen to another or to a help page, there are different terms for the same items that a novice has to stop and wonder, what's the difference between a post and a message, or a subject and a topic or thread, or bla bla -- they're used interchangeably and I see their point that's it's just plain ol' confusing to them, so therefore frustrating, therefore avoided.


 

Ken,

"Messages", but "Posts by members"
What I've seen in Groups.io (I mean the interface, not user content) is that /message/ is the noun, and /post/ is the action.

"New Topic" and "Edit Topic", but we add a new (and edit an old)
"Subject"
A message has four key components: To, From, Subject, and body. In this context To is always the posting address of he group, and From is the email address of the person posting the message (possibly DMARC munged). When posting via the web UI the To and From are supplied implicitly, as is the Subject when using Reply rather than New Topic.

A /topic/ is a list of one or more messages where all but the first are replies to a message in that same topic, and all share the same Subject text.

... (typically better known as a "thread")
Whether to call them /topics/ or /threads/ was discussed long ago, with /topic/ winning out. Hopefully the UI and Help are consistent about that. I don't know if /threading/ (as in "the threading algorithm") is used anywhere in the UI or Help, but I would be ok with that as otherwise you need a circumlocution to avoid an abomination like "topicizing".

J wrote:
As in "all posts by this member". Good catch, I agree.
I agree, that nominialized use of /post/ is an example inconsistency in the UI. It could be rewritten as "All Messages By This Member".

If anyone spots other specific example inconsistencies posting them here may be a good way to get them corrected.

Shal


 

Ken,

It's a matter of "direction." ... The screen talking back - they
are "your"s -- you own them, you set them - but I abide by them.
This is the context I think applies - the user is a visitor at a web site. What appears on the page is the site talking back to you.

Note that the confusion complaints aren't by seasoned users ...
-- It's those who are afraid that clicking something they aren't
supposed to might blow up the world, or at least their laptop.
I fully agree with this point of view, please don't take my disagreement with any of the specific examples as a dismissal of your overall goal.

Settings can occur in different areas.
Indeed they can. And that leads to my primary objection for using that word as the link here. The context of the column of links on the left is "pages of this group". So absent the possessive pronoun I'm concerned that the timid user may be afraid of finding group settings there, and perhaps "blowing up" the group.

My thought was that /Subscription/ better implies a personal connection to the user - in the context of a group it could only refer to one's personal subscription to that group.

At least "Preferences" (display, communication, etc) would be
recognizable.
That's not bad. It may be better.

I think it has a much more personal connotation than /Settings/, and a more "friendly" one. Something offered as your preference doesn't seem as risky as (read with a booming ominous voice in your head) A SETTING.

It would also be consistent usage with the Preferences page in your Account.

But regardless, consistency is the key - when one goes from one screen
to another or to a help page, there are different terms for the same
items that a novice has to stop and wonder, ...
Perhaps the tech writer will take on the challenge of spotting those cases for correction.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/20986

Meanwhile, I imagine Mark would welcome having them pointed out here.

Shal


Marv Waschke
 

Memory, storage, processor cycles, and bandwidth are all cheaper than dirt compared to the last century. But screen real estate in these days of pocket computers, is still precious. "Post" is shorter than "Message". Also "post" is conventionally acceptable as verb, but some fastidious people object to "message" as a verb. For these reasons, I would scrub "message" and consistently replace it with "post." On the other hand, if I were managing groups.io development, I probably tell the team to work on more important things, like the app, where screen real estate is critical.
Best, Marv


 

According to Marv, let’s use “post”

And make the word “message” a ghost.
When shooting the breeze,

Don’t “message me” please

Or screen real estate will be toast.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

darn formatting came out all wrong! :-(

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu