Topics

Sending messages as +owner #suggestion #featurerequest

Andy W
 

When sending a message to a member via the Directory the default From address for a Moderator is group+owner@...  If the Moderator is not set to receive owner emails, they should not (by default at least) have the option to send emails from the owner address.

Andy

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 04:14 AM, Andy W wrote:
When sending a message to a member via the Directory the default From address for a Moderator is group+owner@...  If the Moderator is not set to receive owner emails, they should not (by default at least) have the option to send emails from the owner address.
I generally support the idea that the drop-down menu should omit the +owner address if Owner Email is currently set to None. 

Two clarifications:
  • The +owner email setting is a preference, not a permission. The same Moderator can, at any time, click on Subscription on the left-side menu bar and turn his +owner emails back on. 
  • The same thing can happen when someone sends a message via the Member List. If this issue is really an issue, the remedy needs to be applied in both locations.
Regards,
Bruce

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 07:07 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
The same Moderator can, at any time, click on Subscription on the left-side menu bar and turn his +owner emails back on. 
If that's truly the case (I was not sure whether it was), I find this problematic. The group owner, not the mods themselves, should be the only one allowed to set the mods' receiving of owner emails. There may be mods I don't want receiving owner emails. I was only dimly aware before this thread that mods themselves could set themselves up to receive or not receive owner emails, but was not sure and was hoping I was wrong. If this is the case, I think it needs to be remedied so that the receiving of owner emails is treated as a permission to be granted or not granted by a group owner.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Gerald Boutin
 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 01:15 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald

 

No.


On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 01:15 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

J,


If that's truly the case I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed.

 
We're off topic for the OP, but for the record I disagree.

I think the moderator's Owner Email option to receive +owner messages or not should remain a subscription option, equivalent to their Notifications checkboxes or for that matter to their Email Delivery option to receive group messages or not. That is, I think shared control (either the subject mod or an owner can change it) is wholly appropriate.

Shal

 

Shal,
In the sense that all mods can see a member’s Owner Messages page, you are right. They both specify how information is received, not *which* information is received. There’s also a request floating around somewhere to make moderator access to the Owner Messages page subject to explicit permission by group owners. This problem or issue goes along with that. Both email receipt of, and access to the page for, owner messages I think should be made a specific mod permission. They would go hand in hand.


On Aug 13, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

J,


If that's truly the case I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed.

 
We're off topic for the OP, but for the record I disagree.

I think the moderator's Owner Email option to receive +owner messages or not should remain a subscription option, equivalent to their Notifications checkboxes or for that matter to their Email Delivery option to receive group messages or not. That is, I think shared control (either the subject mod or an owner can change it) is wholly appropriate.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 01:41 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
There’s also a request floating around somewhere to make moderator access to the Owner Messages page subject to explicit permission
Actually I think it's to make access to the Notes page overall subject to explicit permission. That would obviously include Owner Messages. But yes, this is OT. Maybe I'll start a new topic.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Gerald Boutin
 

Actually, my question was rhetorical. I am saying that a Moderator does not have the ability to change what Owner messages they receive unless they have the "Set Moderator Privileges". There may be some other combination I am not aware of, or Mark may have granted you super-powers, but here is what I see when I tested.

I tested with two different accounts, each in their own browser. I made certain to refresh the browser view after I made a change in the other browser.

Here are the views of the Moderator's privileges as seen by the Owner (left) and the Moderator (right). Note that the Moderator 's view(right side) does not have any option to change the setting to view Owner's email .



Here are the Owners (left) and Moderator's (right) view of the setting with the "Set Moderator Privileges" enabled. Now, the Moderator can change the settings.



--
Gerald


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 04:44 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
No.
 

On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

 

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald

 

Well, I’m in a group where I can change my own owner-email preferences and absolutely don’t have permission to set anybody’s privileges. Maybe your question should not have been rhetorical.😊


On Aug 14, 2019, at 6:06 AM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:

Actually, my question was rhetorical. I am saying that a Moderator does not have the ability to change what Owner messages they receive unless they have the "Set Moderator Privileges". There may be some other combination I am not aware of, or Mark may have granted you super-powers, but here is what I see when I tested.

I tested with two different accounts, each in their own browser. I made certain to refresh the browser view after I made a change in the other browser.

Here are the views of the Moderator's privileges as seen by the Owner (left) and the Moderator (right). Note that the Moderator 's view(right side) does not have any option to change the setting to view Owner's email .

<WithoutPriv.jpg>

Here are the Owners (left) and Moderator's (right) view of the setting with the "Set Moderator Privileges" enabled. Now, the Moderator can change the settings.

<WithPriv.jpg>

--
Gerald

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 04:44 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
No.
 

On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

 

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

And if you think about it, as I said (and Shal implied) before, this makes sense. Every mod has unrestricted access to every member’s owner emails via the member’s Notes page, whether they choose to receive them via email or not. Access to owner emails is not currently a permission. It’s automatically granted to every mod. Receiving emails is, as Shal said, just a matter of the delivery method.


On Aug 14, 2019, at 7:28 AM, J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Well, I’m in a group where I can change my own owner-email preferences and absolutely don’t have permission to set anybody’s privileges. Maybe your question should not have been rhetorical.😊


On Aug 14, 2019, at 6:06 AM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:

Actually, my question was rhetorical. I am saying that a Moderator does not have the ability to change what Owner messages they receive unless they have the "Set Moderator Privileges". There may be some other combination I am not aware of, or Mark may have granted you super-powers, but here is what I see when I tested.

I tested with two different accounts, each in their own browser. I made certain to refresh the browser view after I made a change in the other browser.

Here are the views of the Moderator's privileges as seen by the Owner (left) and the Moderator (right). Note that the Moderator 's view(right side) does not have any option to change the setting to view Owner's email .

<WithoutPriv.jpg>

Here are the Owners (left) and Moderator's (right) view of the setting with the "Set Moderator Privileges" enabled. Now, the Moderator can change the settings.

<WithPriv.jpg>

--
Gerald

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 04:44 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
No.
 

On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
If that's truly the case
I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

 

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Victoria
 

 

 

J. wrote: “Well, I’m in a group where I can change my own owner-email preferences and absolutely don’t have permission to set anybody’s privileges. Maybe your question should not have been rhetorical.😊

It´s something I noticed shortly after I founded my group. Mods can change their permission to receive owner-emails even though they do not have the “set Moderator Privileges” marked. One of my mods just tried it out again.

Victoria


On Aug 14, 2019, at 6:06 AM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:

Actually, my question was rhetorical. I am saying that a Moderator does not have the ability to change what Owner messages they receive unless they have the "Set Moderator Privileges". There may be some other combination I am not aware of, or Mark may have granted you super-powers, but here is what I see when I tested.

I tested with two different accounts, each in their own browser. I made certain to refresh the browser view after I made a change in the other browser.

Here are the views of the Moderator's privileges as seen by the Owner (left) and the Moderator (right). Note that the Moderator 's view(right side) does not have any option to change the setting to view Owner's email .

<WithoutPriv.jpg>

Here are the Owners (left) and Moderator's (right) view of the setting with the "Set Moderator Privileges" enabled. Now, the Moderator can change the settings.

<WithPriv.jpg>

--
Gerald

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 04:44 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

No.

 


On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:

If that's truly the case

I just verified that this is the case and think it needs to be fixed. I myself am a mod in one group where apparently the owner didn't want me receiving owner emails and checked "none" for that. Yet I can go into my subscription and change it so that I get them. I strongly feel that this is not right, or at least is misleading to the group owner, who is given the impression they can control it. It should either be changed so that only the owner can control it, or make it clear that the owner does not control it, and preferably the former.
 
--
J

 

Not so fast. Did the Owner give you the "Set Moderators Privileges" permission? If you have that, then as a Moderator you can change your setting for receiving Owner emails. In fact, as that Moderator, you can also change the Owner's settings too.
 
--
Gerald


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 07:52 AM, Victoria wrote:
Mods can change their permission to receive owner-emails even though they do not have the “set Moderator Privileges” marked.
That's right but they already have access to members' owner emails via the Notes page. I was trying, and am still trying, to make access to the Notes page a specific permission. I'm not sure what state that request is in. If that happens, then the receiving of owner emails should be a specific permission as well.

One caveat is that currently, mods can set themselves to receive owner emails from non-members as well as members. That goes above and beyond their access to members' owner emails via the Notes page. I think this area definitely needs cleaning up one way or the other. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Gerald Boutin
 

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:58 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 07:34 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
will check that out later a
Looks like Gerald deleted that message? 
 
--
Yes, my oops.

I apparently had two drafts open and sent the wrong one. Tried to correct by deleting that post and trying to send the correct one. The delete worked, but trying to send another draft of the same post doesn't work, so I lost both copies.

Sorry.

--
Gerald