My suggestion is to not change any more DEFAULTS that could reasonably be left alone, especially if it affects a large number of users.

After being given a timeout for bad behaviour earlier today, I came back from supper today only to find user complaints about the new change. My worst day since I first came to Groups.io, but I still love it.

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Gerald

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 10:23 PM, Gerald Boutin wrote:

My suggestion is to not change any more DEFAULTS that could reasonably be left alone

I would amend that to read My suggestion is to not change any more DEFAULTS unless absolutely essential or unavoidable.

Chris

I agree. Things are past the stage where really major changes are palatable, especially if they’re unnecessary. Groups.io is more at the ‘if it ain’t broke don’t redesign the whole thing’ stage.

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J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 06:28 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Can you be more specific? Which defaults?

The two that come to my mind:
1. Photo display, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/30309465
2. Feed page, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/30775486

I don't have a problem with the options, but don't like that the default was changed.  In my mind, it would have been better to leave the original setups, adding the new options as new choices.

Thanks,
Duane

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 08:22 PM, Duane wrote:

2. Feed page, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/30775486

I do appreciate the general sense of this #suggestion, but feel compelled to chime in with regards to the feed page.
What we used to land on as a landing page (ie: the Your groups / My Subscriptions page), while great for for admins, was absolutely not a practical way to on board new members, new generations of members, and to keep these folks coming back.

Just because I spend hours on groups.io each day doesn't mean others do. I would imagine the average member would have 10-15 minutes a day to dedicate to groups. And if they do, that's great and they deserve to be provided with a way to hit the ground running on their landing page.

I think the page that was formerly known as the landing page (ie: your groups), always felt to me like a temporary page - while the site was in construction.
It was a band-aid and it hasn't even been ripped off, just moved.

We ( as seasoned admins) have got to put our admin hats away or at least take them off when giving feedback about new features that are geared to a better experience for non admins.

With an APP on the way, the service needed this new landing page/activity feed.
I honestly cannot think of any comparable apps that don't have one.

Sometimes, the default is there by default - not because a better alternative isn't available, in the works, or possible.
And I'm fine with that, if it makes the service better.


Maria

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 05:56 PM, HR Tech wrote:

With an APP on the way, the service needed this new landing page/activity feed.

Then why not make it specific to the app only?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 09:09 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 05:56 PM, HR Tech wrote:

With an APP on the way, the service needed this new landing page/activity feed.

Then why not make it specific to the app only?
 

Because:
1- Why would you make 2 versions of the same platform
2- Why would you have a different home/landing page on an app vs desktop/mobile web. Who even does that?
3- The reasons why the feed page is a good landing spot for members don't change based on whether you are desktop/mobile web/ or app. They are valid regardless. You may not agree with them, but the logic that led to it applies regardless of how you login.
4- Why would you want users to have two different sets of learned behaviors, one for app and one for desktop/ mobile web? That's in nobody's best interest.
5- Why should those who download and use the app have all the fun :)

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 06:24 PM, HR Tech wrote:

Why would you have a different home/landing page on an app vs desktop/mobile web. Who even does that?

Lots of apps look different from their desktop versions.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Mark,

This is more of a general comment related to maintaining backward compatibility when making changes. I didn't have any specific defaults in mind if that is what you are thinking about.

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Gerald

<<<Lots of apps look different from their desktop versions.
--
J >>>

I would hate to see Mark “neo” us when we have such a good thing going.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 08:09 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:

Precisely,

Well, there's a reason they do it. And there's a reason here to do it. These are tradeoffs.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:56 AM, HR Tech wrote:

I think the page that was formerly known as the landing page (ie: your groups), always felt to me like a temporary page - while the site was in construction.

Perhaps it did look a bit "functional", but that's what I want it to look like; devoid of distractions and frills.

Function over Form, not the other way round.

Chris

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 03:10 AM, Chris Jones wrote:

Function over Form, not the other way round.

Exactly. The whole thing is a bit Facebook-ish, with looks trumping utility.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 06:10 AM, Chris Jones wrote:

Perhaps it did look a bit "functional", but that's what I want it to look like; devoid of distractions and frills.

Function over Form, not the other way round.

And you still have that page - intact. Exactly as it was. Just one click away.

The function of the feed is to provide a feed of recent activity, the form it's presented in does that. I don't see distractions or frills in the feed.
It's quite minimalist actually. Shows us: active topics/new - upcoming events/ new files/ new photos/new subgroups/new chats/ and only shows them if they actually have new content.

The function of the YOUR GROUPS page is predominantly administrative, and the form it's in feels that way.  Which is great for the purpose of that page.

Both pages are necessary. Both pages are provided.

Maybe we simply need the Your Groups button no matter where we are on the site - we used to use the LOGO.

Like many architects, designers, artists, dancers, I don't share the idea of function over form. The two should align. It's not one or the other.

Beauty is the harmony of function and form -  Alvar Aalto
Maria

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 09:21 AM, HR Tech wrote:

Beauty is the harmony of function and form -  Alvar Aalto

Function influence but does not dictate form - Eero Saarinen
Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union.- Frank Lloyd Wright
Form and function are a unity, two sides of one coin. In order to enhance function, appropriate form must exist or be created - Ida Rolf
Form Ever Follows Function - Louis Henry Sullivan

Agreed, especially the last.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Maria,

Maybe we simply need the Your Groups button no matter where we are on
the site - we used to use the LOGO.

Interesting idea.

One possibility would be to make it the top entry in the Your Groups drop-list. That's still two clicks though.

I don't think I want it below the Logo bar when visiting a group's pages; currently everything below the bar (and above the footer) is group-specific when visiting a group's pages, and I think that's a good design choice.

Shal

Hi Shal

This is probably worth it's own separate thread, but I think it's more useful if I see how it all feels in a week. As with any interface change/IOS change/ phone change - it may be that in a week I'm totally used to the way it is. Not sure right now.

I use mobile web / apps a lot, so, I also need to contextualize it to that experience when there isn't a mouse/desktop present, and time/dexterity is even more limited. I also need to think about it in terms of what is relevant to me as an admin and irrelevant to members. Members are not constantly checking to see what pending stuff they need to deal with. It's a different set of priorities for them. Perhaps it's simply an admin specific area needed. But will stop there.

Maria

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 04:21 PM, HR Tech wrote:

The function of the feed is to provide a feed of recent activity, the form it's presented in does that. I don't see distractions or frills in the feed.
It's quite minimalist actually. Shows us: active topics/new - upcoming events/ new files/ new photos/new subgroups/new chats/ and only shows them if they actually have new content.

But - in it's current form, which is rigidly divided by group - it doesn't do that in way - unless you're only in one group (and AIUI we are all (also) in the Updates group, are there any such people?).

As it is, it is a partial list of your groups (only those with recent activity!), showing their description and recent activity (which may be the last few actions, or may go back a month), so rather long - to go to other groups you may have to scroll a long way - and organised by last activity time (so, when that was yesterday or earlier, on an apparently random basis). Not something I feel really useful, or usable.

If redone to give an overall view, across groups of "active topics/new - upcoming events/ new files/ new photos/new subgroups/new chats/ ", and with the ability to tailor to show what we want - and not we don't - then, yes I can see it being be very useful.

Jeremy