moderated Reply to Sender


KWKloeber
 

Sharon would "Private Message"  or "Persona Message" sound/work better? 
"PM me" seems to be one of those unwritten standards these days.
Perhaps in conjunction w/ an iconized button like simplemachines platform forum uses....

KWKloeber
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i.e. above; member's profile - email the member - PM the member
 


Sharon Villines
 

On Mar 28, 2019, at 12:19 PM, ro-esp <ro-esp@dds.nl> wrote:

Mark, the only thing I am used to seeing when people use "reply to sender" is them adding "off-list" to the subjectline.
I like “off list” but it might not be clear that if it is off-list, who it is going to. “Reply to sender off-list” is the clearest.

Private does sound like “secret.” Some communicated information that is being concealed.

Sharon
----
Sharon Villines, Washington DC
"We're only the light bulbs, and our job is just to remain screwed in.” Bishop Desmond Tutu


ro-esp
 

Mark, the only thing I am used to seeing when people use "reply to sender" is them adding "off-list" to the subjectline. I'm not aware of any custom adding "DM", and "private" SOUNDS like it's something else... like you don't want to "tell" the rest of the group.

So unless there is some custom somewhere outside my view, I think it would be most prudent to just let it say "off-list"

[and looking at the private-button now, I think it should have another colour. Why not the same green as the "reply to group" one?]


groetjes, Ronaldo


Jim Higgins
 

Received from Ken Kloeber via Groups.Io at 3/27/2019 10:49 PM UTC:

Along Jim's thoughts... On the emailed versions, would it make sense to remove the "Reply to Sender" ink, and have "Private" & "Reply to Group"? And then that "Private" link would then start some other action that allows you to reply to sender?

OF COURSE NOT.

Actually, a small "flag" in the reply link could tell the web site what sort of reply to generate.

That sort of thing aside, the current button colors and sequence of drafting a reply before deciding if it's a reply to group or sender isn't logical to me.

Jim H


Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually, for some of us the "reply to sender" option never shows up in some of the groups we are subscribed in. So we have to go to the website, , view the message online then click "reply to sender"

On 27 Mar 2019, at 15:42, Noel Leaver via Groups.Io wrote:

> Perhaps so. I look at it this way: Although we group owners are accustomed to using the web interface, I'd say that 80-90% of my subscribers use email only. The "reply-to" fields of all outgoing emails are populated per the group default setting.

On my groups it is similar, perhaps nearer 80% though the group owners rarely use the web interface.

> If the subscriber's email client respects that (a whole other conversation), then clicking on "reply" sends it back that way. To override, they have to manually populate the To: address.

No they don't, they click on the Reply to sender link at the bottom of the email which (on all 3 of my email clients/platforms) sends an email directly to the sender.

Noel


 

All,

This thread has run its course. Let's please move on.

Thanks,
Mark


KWKloeber
 

Along Jim's thoughts....

On the emailed versions, would it make sense to remove the "Reply to Sender" ink, and have  "Private" & "Reply to Group"?   And then that "Private" link would then start some other action that allows you to reply to sender?

OF COURSE NOT. 

So why make the web UI more confusing than it needs to be?

That said -- I really don't care, I'll use it either way.  How it would make sense or how it does not make sense.  I'm ambidextrous. 
I'd rather fight the good fight for many functional shortcomings that are still lacking and need Mark's attention.  :-))


Noel Leaver
 

> Perhaps so. I look at it this way: Although we group owners are accustomed to using the web interface, I'd say that 80-90% of my subscribers use email only. The "reply-to" fields of all outgoing emails are populated per the group default setting.

On my groups it is similar, perhaps nearer 80% though the group owners rarely use the web interface.

> If the subscriber's email client respects that (a whole other conversation), then clicking on "reply" sends it back that way. To override, they have to manually populate the To: address.

No they don't, they click on the Reply to sender link at the bottom of the email which (on all 3 of my email clients/platforms) sends an email directly to the sender.

Noel


KWKloeber
 

Reruns are NEVER junk.  Current is the junk.!!


Jim Higgins
 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 09:45 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:

Mark

<<<1) There is logic to the Private button being grey. It's not active. When
you press the button to active a private reply, it changes color. This is in
keeping with how other buttons are colored on the site.>>>

NO!!!! There's no defending that logic
I agree! Might be in keeping with buttons on the site that I'm not familiar with because I'm a via email type of guy, but that approach to button coloring is completely out of sync with the rest of the button producing world where buttons are made grey to show they're non-functional.

Why not just have two buttons -- green "send to group" and blue "send a
private message to the sender (or poster)"? Saves clicks!
Grayed-out means "don't bother trying to use me", "I don't do anything" and
"always" has meant this -- until SOMEONE tries to redefine the traditional
role of the use of the gray color (just to be different, not better.)
A grayed out feature button MEANS -- don't tread on me, it's useless, I am
asleep and I will not wake up no matter how hard/often you click or curse at
the screen.
Yes! Yes to the idea of two (or very few) buttons and especially to the illogic of a button intended to be used being rendered as grey.

Carrying on with Ken's suggestion... I think the whole sequence involving creating a reply and THEN deciding whether to click "Reply to Group" or to VERY unintuitively click a greyed out "Private" button to make the "Reply to Group" button change to "Reply to Sender" so I can then click "Reply to Sender" is completely bass ackwards.

IMHO, when reading a message online - as I'm doing now for the first time ever on Gio - and deciding you want to reply, you should see - as Ken basically just suggested - buttons saying "Reply to Group" and "Reply to Sender" (no "Private" button) and then ONLY AFTER clicking one of those should you see the reply creation screen. Now you type your reply and when done either click "Discard" or click the one other button that says I don't care what as long as it translates unambiguously to "Send My Reply."

Before seeing the reply creation screen, I'm fine with additional reply option buttons such as "Reply to Group and Sender," etc, etc, as well as restricting the choice of reply types in accord with settings the group owner may have made when setting up the group. But once a reply has been typed, the only choices should be discard or send.

Jim H


 

Huh is right , Ken! Of course it’s clickable! I’m binge-watching too much junk old reruns, am clearly losing it. It wasn t clickable because I hadn’t composed a message yet. 😊


On Mar 27, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Ken Kloeber via Groups.Io <KWKloeber@...> wrote:

<<<I wonder whether it's confusing to have an actual clickable button ("discard") next to a non-clickable informational area (the green "reply to group" or "reply to sender" area) but this is probably getting too far afield. I think it is, however, causing or contributing to the mixing up of "private" vs "reply to sender" in this conversation.>>>
 
J, HUH?!?!
 
The blue "Reply to Sender" is certainly a clickable button, just as is "Reply to Group" (before it changes to Blue) as is the "Discard" also a button.
Even the gray "Private" is still clickable once it turns to blue (turns back to gray and removes the "Reply to sender" option.)
 
Explain the logic in all that click crap?

Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


KWKloeber
 

<<<I wonder whether it's confusing to have an actual clickable button ("discard") next to a non-clickable informational area (the green "reply to group" or "reply to sender" area) but this is probably getting too far afield. I think it is, however, causing or contributing to the mixing up of "private" vs "reply to sender" in this conversation.>>>
 
J, HUH?!?!
 
The blue "Reply to Sender" is certainly a clickable button, just as is "Reply to Group" (before it changes to Blue) as is the "Discard" also a button.
Even the gray "Private" is still clickable once it turns to blue (turns back to gray and removes the "Reply to sender" option.)
 
Explain the logic in all that click crap?

Virus-free. www.avg.com


 

Re the "graying out" thing, the button does not really look grayed-out to me, as grayed-out non-active buttons look. Its background is clearly white and I would not hesitate to click on it, as I would hesitate to click on a grayed-out button. Also, grayed-out buttons usually have a diagonal line through them as well. Regardless of color, this one doesn't have that. Seeing that button, the thought that it's inactive doesn't even enter my mind. So I don't know where this tangent is coming from.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 02:34 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
80-90% of my subscribers use email only.
I think we need to accept the fact that the various groups have various cultures and so will tend to have various stats for that. My group members use the web almost exclusively, according to the log entries I see. A separate issue is the "jumping through hoops" thing. Jumping through hoops is one thing. Jumping through flaming hoops of fire is another. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


KWKloeber
 

Mark
 
<<<1) There is logic to the Private button being grey. It's not active. When you press the button to active a private reply, it changes color. This is in keeping with how other buttons are colored on the site.>>>
 
NO!!!!  There's no defending that logic
 
To be precise, the button DOES NOT simply change or activate a private reply..  Hitting the button (that is grayed out and by convention it is NOT "active," NOT "a valid choice", and "does NOT work") creates ANOTHER and different action,  It CHANGES A DIFFERENT button (green "send to group") to blue, "reply to sender", and yes, the grayed button ALSO goes to blue.   HUH??!? From a user point of use this makes no sense at all. 
 
Maybe from a developer's view/world it does. 
 
Why not just have two buttons -- green "send to group" and blue "send a private message to the sender (or poster)"?  Saves clicks! 
 
Grayed-out means "don't bother trying to use me", "I don't do anything" and "always" has meant this -- until SOMEONE tries to redefine the traditional role of the use of the gray color (just to be different, not better.)    A grayed out feature button MEANS -- don't tread on me, it's useless, I am asleep and I will not wake up no matter how hard/often you click or curse at the screen.
 
k
 
 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Bruce Bowman
 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 02:45 PM, Noel Leaver wrote:
I would say what it achieves is rather more than mild discouragement, more hidden so nobody finds it without being told where it is.
Perhaps so. I look at it this way:  Although we group owners are accustomed to using the web interface, I'd say that 80-90% of my subscribers use email only. The "reply-to" fields of all outgoing emails are populated per the group default setting. If the subscriber's email client respects that (a whole other conversation), then clicking on "reply" sends it back that way. To override, they have to manually populate the To: address.

So sending someone a non-default reply to a group email does require jumping through a hoop or two. It seems only appropriate to me that the web interface behave similarly.

Regards,
Bruce


Noel Leaver
 

Part of the problem I think is for people using a browser on a PC the screen is very wide compared to a phone. On my screen the bright Reply and Discard buttons occupy 5.5 cm on the right of the screen, there is then a gap of over half the screen to the tiny (1.5 cm wide) private button.

 

Incidentally the same screen has a Previous Topic button which is greyed out as I'm on the first topic (though a lighter grey than the Private button).

 

If the Private button were closer to the Reply, for example underneath, it would be easier to notice and to realise it relates to the reply button.

 

Another suggestion. Could "Reply to Sender" appear as an option in the More menu on the message view screen? That is where I first looked for the functionality, and it would be sufficiently obscure people would not click it by accident. Just to take you to the reply screen with Private enabled.

 

Noel


Maria
 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 02:39 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
Seems very weird to have a grey button (which yes, means “this doesn’t work”) that does nothing but CHANGE the defaut green “reply to group” button into a blue “reply to sender” button. 
Huh?  How does that make any logical sense. But then again I’m a user, not a developer or coder. 
I'm not a developer, or a coder. But where did this notion that something that is grey is not something that can be clicked ( even though currently not active) come from?
I use many other platforms daily where text in grey is clickable/actionable: twitter, instagram, facebook, reddit, discourse forums, NYTimes, buttons on Amazon.
This is not different in any way to what "folks are accustomed to". If it were, I'd be spending a good chunk of my day helping members with it. Instead here I am :)


 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 11:42 AM, Noel Leaver wrote:
The button says "Reply to Group" for my groups. When I click on the Private button it changes to "Reply to Sende
I think there's an element of confusion with use of the word "button" in this conversation. A "button" is something you can click on; that's the one at right which says "private." After you click on that, the green area at the left of "discard" changes from "reply to group" to "reply to sender." But I would not call that a button.

I wonder whether it's confusing to have an actual clickable button ("discard") next to a non-clickable informational area (the green "reply to group" or "reply to sender" area) but this is probably getting too far afield. I think it is, however, causing or contributing to the mixing up of "private" vs "reply to sender" in this conversation.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Noel Leaver
 

> The button was set up this way to gently discourage subscribers from using something that was not intended to be the primary reply mode of the group.

 

I would say what it achieves is rather more than mild discouragement, more hidden so nobody finds it without being told where it is.

 

Noel