Topics

moderated Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides


 

Hi All,

On hashtags, I've removed the Reply Only To Sender checkbox and replaced it with a dropdown featuring all possible reply to options (all hashtags with the existing Reply Only To Sender were converted to the new scheme). Also, I've made it so that you can override the group's reply to on a topic by topic basis.

If a topic has a hashtag that overrides the group reply to and the topic is also set to override the group reply to, the topic setting takes priority.

If there are multiple hashtags for a topic that override the reply to, it is not defined which one 'wins out'.

In the /topics page, the dropdown displays the 'effective' reply to, as either set by a hashtag or on the topic itself. This can lead to some weird behavior: if you have a hashtag with a reply to, setting 'Use Group Reply To Setting' with the dropdown will never 'stick', because the hashtag is forcing a reply to change in the absence of a topic reply to setting. (You can go to the Edit Topics page and remove the offending hashtag if you wish).

If you go to the Edit Topic page, the Reply To setting there is the setting for the topic itself, not modified by any applicable hashtags (ie this is different than the dropdown on the /topics page).

This is a bit complicated, I know. Please let me know if you see any bugs or have suggestions for improvements.

Thanks,
Mark


Bruce Bowman
 

Wow, Mark. I read this three times and it still left me pretty bewildered! So I've been clicking around a bit and...

On hashtags, I've removed the Reply Only To Sender checkbox and replaced it with a dropdown featuring all possible reply to options (all hashtags with the existing Reply Only To Sender were converted to the new scheme). Also, I've made it so that you can override the group's reply to on a topic by topic basis.
Okay, it's been a struggle, but I think I've finally gotten this part.

If a topic has a hashtag that overrides the group reply to and the topic is also set to override the group reply to, the topic setting takes priority.
That strikes me as sensible.

If there are multiple hashtags for a topic that override the reply to, it is not defined which one 'wins out'.
This is cause for concern, is it not? Can't we make the first hashtag win, or something? Any order of precedence is better than none.

In the /topics page, the dropdown displays the 'effective' reply to, as either set by a hashtag or on the topic itself.
From what I'm seeing, the "effective" reply-to for the topic displays in italics, right?

This can lead to some weird behavior: if you have a hashtag with a reply to, setting 'Use Group Reply To Setting' with the dropdown will never 'stick', because the hashtag is forcing a reply to change in the absence of a topic reply to setting. (You can go to the Edit Topics page and remove the offending hashtag if you wish).
I haven't actually tested this, but if an option from the dropdown isn't going to work, wouldn't it make sense to grey it out or something like that?

If you go to the Edit Topic page, the Reply To setting there is the setting for the topic itself, not modified by any applicable hashtags (ie this is different than the dropdown on the /topics page).
I am confused as to how this drop-down setting is different from the drop-down "override" selections in Topics view. Whatever changes we make to the topic reply-to setting via this page will also override any hashtags, right? 

This is a bit complicated, I know. Please let me know if you see any bugs or have suggestions for improvements.
You bet. I kinda like this but am curious as to where the notion came from (i.e.: I haven't seen any topics on it here in beta). Good luck writing the documentation! 

Regards,
Bruce


 

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 04:15 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
This is a bit complicated, I know. Please let me know if you see any bugs or have suggestions for improvements.
I'll get back to you next week on it! :-)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Bruce Bowman
 

Mark -- I have two questions, both of which relate to how these overrides will interact with group emails.

1) Is there a way to override the reply-to setting for a topic during topic creation? If not, the footer links for those receiving Individual Emails will not comply with the override.
2) Are subsequent email replies that don't comply with the override put on moderation, rejected, or ????  If something isn't done along those lines then it seems to me that the override isn't really accomplishing its objective.

Thanks,
Bruce


 

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 6:57 AM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
Mark -- I have two questions, both of which relate to how these overrides will interact with group emails.

1) Is there a way to override the reply-to setting for a topic during topic creation? If not, the footer links for those receiving Individual Emails will not comply with the override.

Right now the only way to override on topic creation is through the use of a hashtag.

 
2) Are subsequent email replies that don't comply with the override put on moderation, rejected, or ????  If something isn't done along those lines then it seems to me that the override isn't really accomplishing its objective.

If you think about it, the Reply To setting is really only a suggestion, except in the case of Reply Only To Sender, which isn't an option at the group level. If a topic is set to Reply Only To Sender, then we actively block messages back to the group.

Mark


 

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 04:15 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Please let me know if you see any bugs or have suggestions for improvements.
Mark,

I'm finally getting to looking at this. I have not yet tested it, but my biggest and most immediate question is whether the hashtag would override the group setting that disables other reply options. My group is set to "reply to group" and has disabled other reply options, but I would like a hashtag to be able to set a topic to "reply to sender" and override that. My guess is this is not possible. Right?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 8:09 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I'm finally getting to looking at this. I have not yet tested it, but my biggest and most immediate question is whether the hashtag would override the group setting that disables other reply options. My group is set to "reply to group" and has disabled other reply options, but I would like a hashtag to be able to set a topic to "reply to sender" and override that. My guess is this is not possible. Right?
 
Hashtags will override group settings, so you should be able to do this.

Thanks,
Mark 


 

Yay! Thanks Mark, I’ll check it out in my test group.


On Oct 31, 2018, at 8:57 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 8:09 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I'm finally getting to looking at this. I have not yet tested it, but my biggest and most immediate question is whether the hashtag would override the group setting that disables other reply options. My group is set to "reply to group" and has disabled other reply options, but I would like a hashtag to be able to set a topic to "reply to sender" and override that. My guess is this is not possible. Right?
 
Hashtags will override group settings, so you should be able to do this.

Thanks,
Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

ps delayed reaction - Mark, is this override of group 
settlngs by hashtags new? Because this did not use to work. I distinctly remember because I had to give up on this situation after trying it before. Anyway, I will test it again today. Thanks.

On Oct 31, 2018, at 9:29 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Yay! Thanks Mark, I’ll check it out in my test group.


On Oct 31, 2018, at 8:57 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 8:09 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I'm finally getting to looking at this. I have not yet tested it, but my biggest and most immediate question is whether the hashtag would override the group setting that disables other reply options. My group is set to "reply to group" and has disabled other reply options, but I would like a hashtag to be able to set a topic to "reply to sender" and override that. My guess is this is not possible. Right?
 
Hashtags will override group settings, so you should be able to do this.

Thanks,
Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

It's working! :-)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Oops, no it’s not. Notification was delayed, but it’s the same problem as I had originally with this: an attempted reply via email bounced, with message that replies had to be only to sender. This was the original problem I had with this in my group, and which caused me to give up on using reply-to-sender hashtags. I can send you the details offlist after I run another test.


On Oct 31, 2018, at 8:10 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

It's working! :-)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 12:23 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Oops, no it’s not. Notification was delayed, but it’s the same problem as I had originally with this: an attempted reply via email bounced, with message that replies had to be only to sender. This was the original problem I had with this in my group, and which caused me to give up on using reply-to-sender hashtags. I can send you the details offlist after I run another test.
A hashtag with "reply only to sender" set is supposed to bounce stuff that is sent to the group. That is by design. Try a "reply to sender" hashtag instead. Ref: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/18853  

Bruce


 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 05:56 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
A hashtag with "reply only to sender" set is supposed to bounce stuff that is sent to the group.
I know what hashtags with "reply only to sender" are supposed to do. I wrote the Help section on hashtags. But when someone hits "reply" by email from gmail (and probably other providers), groups.io should not be trying to send both the group and the individual if the hashtag is so marked, and that is what it does, and then it bounces the one sent to the group. A person replying by email is not privy to the fact that the the topic is reply-to-sender. A person replying via web does know, because the reply is automatically marked "reply to sender." That is the problem here, and was the problem all along with this situation when a group is set to disable other reply options. People in my group were all alarmed, telling me their emails were bouncing, etc. I am guessing that the group's "disable other reply options" may be contributing to this problem (it may not, I don't remember - at one point our group had that setting, at another point it didn't) but I was planning to check that today
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

"I wrote the Help section on hashtags."
and I will be updating that for Mark as soon as I thoroughly test the new scheme

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 6:39 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 05:56 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
A hashtag with "reply only to sender" set is supposed to bounce stuff that is sent to the group.
I know what hashtags with "reply only to sender" are supposed to do. I wrote the Help section on hashtags. But when someone hits "reply" by email from gmail (and probably other providers), groups.io should not be trying to send both the group and the individual if the hashtag is so marked, and that is what it does, and then it bounces the one sent to the group. A person replying by email is not privy to the fact that the the topic is reply-to-sender. A person replying via web does know, because the reply is automatically marked "reply to sender." That is the problem here, and was the problem all along with this situation when a group is set to disable other reply options. People in my group were all alarmed, telling me their emails were bouncing, etc. I am guessing that the group's "disable other reply options" may be contributing to this problem (it may not, I don't remember - at one point our group had that setting, at another point it didn't) but I was planning to check that today
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Bruce, I take that back. I just tried your suggestion (using "reply to sender" instead of "reply only to sender") and it works fine via email. 
I will revert to questioning the wording of the new scheme once I test all the possibilities (and will post my comments about that in this thread), because I think the current wording is very misleading.
Thanks for your suggestion.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

In particular, ‘reply only to sender’ actually causes groups.io to attempt to send both to the sender and to the group, and then bounces the email it sends to the group; whereas ‘reply to sender’ actually sends only to the sender. So maybe these designations should be reversed.


On Nov 1, 2018, at 8:12 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Bruce, I take that back. I just tried your suggestion (using "reply to sender" instead of "reply only to sender") and it works fine via email. 
I will revert to questioning the wording of the new scheme once I test all the possibilities (and will post my comments about that in this thread), because I think the current wording is very misleading.
Thanks for your suggestion.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 11:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
In particular, ‘reply only to sender’ actually causes groups.io to attempt to send both to the sender and to the group, and then bounces the email it sends to the group; whereas ‘reply to sender’ actually sends only to the sender. So maybe these designations should be reversed.
J -- I created a hashtag with #replyonlytosender in ShalsTest and am not seeing the behavior you describe.

  • If I simply hit reply using my email client, it automatically populates my own address. The group address is NWTBF.
  • If I manually insert the group address anyway, the one going directly to me arrives fine but the one to the group bounces with a 500 error.
  • If I click the link to view/reply online, the message editor comes up Private with no way to change it to Public.
Are you using Reply All or something?

Bruce


 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 09:02 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Are you using Reply All or something?
No, and that's the issue. The user just hits "reply" and gets the bounce message. This is using gmail. Not sure what happens with other email addresses but I seem to recall that it was a universal problem in my group, before I stopped using the feature. People replying via email were just hitting "reply," very innocently. Then they'd get the bounce message and would start to complain to me, wonder whether they'd been removed from the group, etc. As I said before, I have not yet had a chance to remove the "disable other reply options" in my test group and try this there and see if there's the same result.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

p.s. I did report this to support as a bug at least a year ago, but eventually gave up on it, thought it might be due to "disable other reply options," etc. So I'm glad it's coming up now.


On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:11 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 09:02 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Are you using Reply All or something?
No, and that's the issue. The user just hits "reply" and gets the bounce message. This is using gmail. Not sure what happens with other email addresses but I seem to recall that it was a universal problem in my group, before I stopped using the feature. People replying via email were just hitting "reply," very innocently. Then they'd get the bounce message and would start to complain to me, wonder whether they'd been removed from the group, etc. As I said before, I have not yet had a chance to remove the "disable other reply options" in my test group and try this there and see if there's the same result.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I just a gmail setting called "default reply behavior, reply or reply all" and will try to find time today to see how this interacts with the groups.io settings. This might be the key to the problem, but if so, it will not remove the problem in groups without trying to instruct everyone to set their gmail (or other) settings to conform with groups.io.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu