moderated Footer variations in individual emails


Bob Bellizzi
 

I'm sure that one of Beta's gurus can tell me why this is occurring:
A member called attention to the two variations of email footers she receives; sometimes on message from the same person:
Using a standard Member subscription, I've monitored individual email delivery over more than one week and have checked more than 50 messages.  About one in 4 or 5 show the aberrant footer.
It would seem that this first footer type is the most desirable for email replies since it has Mailto link(s)
I've removed the links for privacy.  The footer is preceded by a line of underscore  ___________
View/Reply Online (#159506) | Reply To Group | Mute This Topic | New Topic
 
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe 

The "other" set of links doesn't provide mailto links and is even in a different font and the separator line looks like a chain
(Note that I used notpad to remove the actual link contents so the font in not the original font in either case.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#159480): https://groups.io/g/FuchsFriends/message/159480

Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/25717093/80597

Group Owner: FuchsFriends+owner@groups.io

 

Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/FuchsFriends/leave/.................... 

--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Bob,

          Thank heaven someone else is experiencing this.   For the longest time I had never encountered a Groups.io e-mail message that did not have what I call the "standard footer collection" at the bottom.  Suddenly, on at least one group, and possibly more (I only turn on individual messages for testing periods - I use the web interface) it's doing precisely what you describe.

           I have submitted a support ticket on this, and what I copied in as examples is virtually identical to what you've offered here, down to and including the "-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-" as the separator bar.

           Something's going wrong somewhere.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


 

Is this just a case of some emails being plain text and others being HTML?

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 4:22 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
Bob,

          Thank heaven someone else is experiencing this.   For the longest time I had never encountered a Groups.io e-mail message that did not have what I call the "standard footer collection" at the bottom.  Suddenly, on at least one group, and possibly more (I only turn on individual messages for testing periods - I use the web interface) it's doing precisely what you describe.

           I have submitted a support ticket on this, and what I copied in as examples is virtually identical to what you've offered here, down to and including the "-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-" as the separator bar.

           Something's going wrong somewhere.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I do not think so, but what would you have me (or anyone) do to test this?

I found this on the NVDA group, and when I went to individual message subscription I never changed between plain text and full-featured.  And checking just now, I can't recall or find how to change between plain text and full featured under Subscription, even looked under Advanced.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Bob Bellizzi
 

No Mark,
The links are different.  I can send a real copy to support@groups.io for you
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


 

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 4:38 PM Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:
No Mark,
The links are different.  I can send a real copy to support@groups.io for you

Hmm. Can you send me the emails to my corp address? In Gmail, use 'Show Original' for each email to view the raw email. Copy that into a new email and send it to me.

Thanks!
Mark


Bob Bellizzi
 

Brian, I just sent Mark at the support email address both the good and the wacky headers.
This time the two differing fonts held true so hopefully that will provide a clue.
 
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


 

Bob,

The 'good footer' email you sent is an HTML email and the 'bad footer' email you sent is a plain text email. If you always want the consistent footers, I suggest changing your group to Force HTML Emails, if you like the HTML footers, or PlainTextOnly if you want the plain text footers.


Mark

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 4:49 PM Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:
Brian, I just sent Mark at the support email address both the good and the wacky headers.
This time the two differing fonts held true so hopefully that will provide a clue.
 
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Mark,

             Aren't all of the same links supposed to be in the plain text footer, but as label - link pairs, as you can't do click through?

             It makes no sense to me to do this for two of them but not the rest.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Bob Bellizzi
 

Mark,
As Brian said, shouldn't the links be identical regardless of font, etc?
People who receive individual posts via email and don't wish to post via groups.io
should receive links appropriate to this method of receiving messages.
A Reply to that takes the pure email member to groups.io will only give them a screen with a bunch of links for logging in.
Confusion!
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

In my specific case, I swore I remembered the "Reply to Sender" link, whether in full click-through "regalia" in HTML messages, or in label-link pair in plain text, was there.

If Mark can give me a way to search my own mail for individual messages from groups.io by either HTML or plain text format I can check to see what I got "way back when," but I could have sworn that the standard link cluster for:  View/Reply Online, Reply to Group, Reply to Sender, Mute this Topic, New Topic
was always presented, whether the mail was in HTML format or Plain Text format.  Maybe I'm wrong, but if it isn't it could be.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Steve Bass
 

In Account, Preferences, I'm set to Plain Text and I get the full footer:

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#18375) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic

Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe

________________________________
In my specific case, I swore I remembered the "Reply to Sender" link, whether in full click-through "regalia" in HTML messages, or in label-link pair in plain text, was there.If Mark can give me a way to search my own mail for individual messages from groups.io by either HTML or plain text format I can check to see what I got "way back when," but I could have sworn that the standard link cluster for:  View/Reply Online, Reply to Group, Reply to Sender, Mute this Topic, New Topicwas always presented, whether the mail was in HTML format or Plain Text format.  Maybe I'm wrong, but if it isn't it could be.--


Bob Bellizzi
 

My "collecter" is still operating.  I didn't start this topic until I had 1 message of each type from the same person to my test email address
I'm going to wait till I have one or more of each from the same originator to my test subscription before proceeding with this.

I don't think Mark really understands that it isn't the font it's the links that concern us
Links to a particular recipient should be consistent, not vary dependent on the message text format
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


 

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 6:01 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
In my specific case, I swore I remembered the "Reply to Sender" link, whether in full click-through "regalia" in HTML messages, or in label-link pair in plain text, was there.

Plain text messages by definition don't support links. The fact that some things are clickable in a plain text message is purely a function of the email client looking for things that look like URLs and then making them clickable. Mailto links do not work in plain text, which is why plain text footers are different from HTML footers. I could do some work to emulate reply to sender/reply to group functionality through the website for plain text emails, but it's never been the case that that functionality has been in plain text footers.

Thanks,
Mark 


 

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 06:42 AM, Steve Bass wrote:


In Account, Preferences, I'm set to Plain Text and I get the full footer
That preference is for sending messages from groups.io website,
not for receiving messages.


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:51 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I could do some work to emulate reply to sender/reply to group functionality through the website for plain text emails
I see no point in doing any extra work for "Reply to Group" as that's the default behavior when one replies to any message (not private, mind you) one receives from Groups.io.

It would be nice to have some way for plain text recipients to be able to do a direct reply to sender without having to post a, "Can you send me your e-mail address so I can contact you off-list?," message, which happens with some frequency.   I am not at all worried about the subject line being prepopulated such as it is when one uses the link in the HTML e-mail, as the vast majority of the cases I see is where people want to establish off-list contact but do not have any direct way to do so without asking for a member's e-mail address.

Personally, and I know this is not going to happen, I would simply eliminate the plain text e-mail option.  It's a hold-over from an era long gone now.  Even screen readers were long ago updated to be able to handle HTML e-mail messages once these became the norm rather than the exception.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Dave Sergeant
 

On 20 Sep 2018 at 7:06, Brian Vogel wrote:

Personally, and I know this is not going to happen, I would simply
eliminate the plain text e-mail option.  It's a hold-over from an era
long gone now.  Even screen readers were long ago updated to be able to
handle HTML e-mail messages once these became the norm rather than the
exception.  
You may suggest that. I for one never ever send HTML mail and try to
configure my own group preferences to receive in plain text. Yes, I can
handle HTML, but always view in plain text by preference. I just don't
want all the fancy coloured fonts and silly graphics some people
clutter their emails with. Not to mention the security issues with
dodgy html links and remote graphics.

But the plain text footer options, changed after much discussion on
here earlier in the year, are somewhat lacking. A 'reply to sender'
option is essential as some seem incapable of reading this in the
'from' line. Reply to group is unnecessary as a normal reply does just
that. And 'unsubscribe' is hardly something I want to do every day.

Dave

http://davesergeant.com


Michael Pavan
 

On Sep 20, 2018, at 10:06 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

I see no point in doing any extra work for "Reply to Group" as that's the default behavior when one replies to any message (not private, mind you) one receives from Groups.io.
“Reply to Group” may be the default setting,
however that is only 1 of 4 choices that can be set for a group in
Admin: Settings: Message Policies: Reply To:
“Group"
“Sender"
“Moderators"
“Group and Sender”

All 4 options should be fully functional and operate in the same manner.


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Dave Sergeant wrote:
A 'reply to sender' option is essential as some seem incapable of reading this in the 'from' line.
Or even a line that reads:   This message was sent by <fill in from address here>

The problem is, as you've noted, that there is no easy way for a plain-text message recipient to "go private" with the originator of any given message, at least in the e-mail interface.  The "Private" button exists for all messages in the web interface, but that's not helpful in any way to those participating by e-mail.

My big desire is to have something that will allow the recipient of a plain text message to initiate an "off-list" correspondence with the message's sender if that's what they want to do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 10:57 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:
All 4 options should be fully functional and operate in the same manner.
I would think whichever one of these was set by the Group Owner, that one is the default behavior when someone replies via e-mail.

I can't imagine what earthly purpose the "Reply to Sender," or "Reply to Moderators," options  at the Group Level would have if a group is to function as a group.  The "Reply to Sender" as default makes the group roundabout e-mail, and the "Reply to Moderators," is some sort of weird "everyone's moderated" status, but I don't even know what the moderators would do with a message not really intended "for them" that comes to them.  As a moderator I can't post as if I were someone else, nor would I want to.

Heaven knows I do not ever want a "Reply to Moderators," or "Reply to Group and Sender," link as part of the standard link cluster in HTML messages.  If anything, the "Reply to Moderators," link would be better identified, were such to be included, as "Report this message to the Moderators," but I wouldn't even necessarily want that.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore