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moderated Change "Rejected message" to "Message rejected" in member activity log #suggestion


 

I think (but am not sure) that this is a recent change:  

The search terms for rejected messages all now read
"Rejected message because of [xyz]"
e.g., "Rejected message because of attachments," "Rejected message from member who can't post," etc.

These are entires in the Message Activity log, and the word "Rejected" is meant to read as an adjective. Yet they actually read as an action by a person, as if a moderator rejected the message, and that's not the case. All the rejections in these entries were automatic by the system. The only active "rejection" available in the Moderator Activity log is "Rejected pending message."

So I think the language is unclear, and I would change them all of these entires to start with "Message rejected," making the word "rejected" unambiguously an adjective rather than an action. This change would also make them consistent with the other entries in the search terms, like "Moderated message' and "Non-member message."

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Jim Higgins
 

Received from J_Catlady at 9/7/2018 08:04 PM UTC:

I would change them all of these entires to start with "Message rejected," making the word "rejected" unambiguously an adjective rather than an action.


In the original "Rejected message" the word "rejected" could be an adjective or a verb, but in the proposed "Message rejected" it's a verb (past tense). English language syntax doesn't place adjectives AFTER the noun they modify or describe. The proposed change only adds confusion.

Perhaps "System rejected message..."

Jim H


 

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 01:24 PM, Jim Higgins wrote:
In the original "Rejected message" the word "rejected" could be an adjective or a verb, but in the proposed "Message rejected" it's a verb (past tense). 
In "Rejected message," "rejected" could be either and adjective or a verb.

But in "Message rejected," rejected can't be a verb and can therefore only be an adjective. If "rejected" were interpreted as a verb in "Message rejected," "Message" would be the subject, and messages don't reject things. 

"System rejected message" is an improvement but I don't think it's necessary. "Message rejected" is unambiguous. Furthermore, "Message rejected" would be consistent with the rest of the entries.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Actually I'll walk that back. I do like your "system rejected message," because it distinguishes between that circumstance and a moderator rejecting a message.


On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 1:39 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 01:24 PM, Jim Higgins wrote:
In the original "Rejected message" the word "rejected" could be an adjective or a verb, but in the proposed "Message rejected" it's a verb (past tense). 
In "Rejected message," "rejected" could be either and adjective or a verb.

But in "Message rejected," rejected can't be a verb and can therefore only be an adjective. If "rejected" were interpreted as a verb in "Message rejected," "Message" would be the subject, and messages don't reject things. 

"System rejected message" is an improvement but I don't think it's necessary. "Message rejected" is unambiguous. Furthermore, "Message rejected" would be consistent with the rest of the entries.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


KWKloeber
 

“Message rejected” would be shorthand for (third person)
“The message was rejected...”
IMNHO an uggggggghhhgh  in technical writing.  
Ambiguous.... WHO did the rejecting? 
Unless it’s intentionally written 3rd person so as to obfuscate or avoid implying blame (as “mistakes were made” vs the pointed “Joe screwed up”. ) my fav I love to redline and pass out demerits on is “it was determined that......”. WHO?
Why not admit and take the credit for making the call, if that’s your job?

Plus it takes 1.5x the verbage to convey all the pertinent info when writing in the 3rd person. 

Da dum < stepping off the soapbox. 

So.... “ the system has rejected...x.. because....y” is short and to the point. 

Sent from my phone


 

LOL. Yes, of course, the ghosted verb in that phrase is "was." And it's passive construction. And normally I would argue that it doesn't matter because we're not aiming for a Pulitzer Prize in literature. But you're also right that there are reasons passive construction is usually undesirable (except in certain circumstances, as when the character is actually being a passive victim in the story). It's clearer to attribute actions to someone or something, in this case, "the system."

So I agree with both you and Tim that mentioning "the system" or just "system" (again, not aiming for great literature) in order to state exactly what happened.

The only nagging little thing is that in the Message Activity log, it does make more sense to me for the Message to be the first word. The other thing is "the system has rejected" does not feel like quite the correct tense. I'd say "The system rejected..."

Either way, "Rejected message" has got to go. ;)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

"agree with both you and Tim that "
should read
"agree with both you and Tim about"
I was missing a verb. LOL


On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 11:53 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
LOL. Yes, of course, the ghosted verb in that phrase is "was." And it's passive construction. And normally I would argue that it doesn't matter because we're not aiming for a Pulitzer Prize in literature. But you're also right that there are reasons passive construction is usually undesirable (except in certain circumstances, as when the character is actually being a passive victim in the story). It's clearer to attribute actions to someone or something, in this case, "the system."

So I agree with both you and Tim that mentioning "the system" or just "system" (again, not aiming for great literature) in order to state exactly what happened.

The only nagging little thing is that in the Message Activity log, it does make more sense to me for the Message to be the first word. The other thing is "the system has rejected" does not feel like quite the correct tense. I'd say "The system rejected..."

Either way, "Rejected message" has got to go. ;)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


KWKloeber
 

Ah yes. Duh. Passive was the operative word, not third person (3rd passive vs 3rd active) the late hour is my only defense ;-)

Or — just 1st active. I am the IO system and I rejected your message ,,,,, LOL

in the log I see one way is describing the current status (rejected massage) the reverse is describing how it was acted upon (message rejected.)
So if it’s a log of activity - the latter 
if its a status log, the former. 


 

On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 08:10 AM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
So if it’s a log of activity - the latter 
if its a status log, the former.
ESP. I was having that exact same thought about 15 minutes ago, while making coffee, just as you were probably typing it. The fact that it's labelled an "Activity" log is a big part of what makes "Rejected message" so misleading. Plus, as you, said, "Message rejected" would be consistent with the other terms.

To the word "the" (as in "the system rejected the message"), I give a thumbs-down. We're talking about search terms. There is no "the message" to refer to. So my vote is for either simply "Message rejected" or "System rejected a message." 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 08:34 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
The fact that it's labelled an "Activity" log is a big part of what makes "Rejected message" so misleading.
By which I mean, "Rejected message" sounds like an action by someone and you're left wondering who.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

p.s. Jim, sorry I called you Tim. I know someone named Tim Higgins and my brain did a swap. :)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Jim Higgins
 

Received from J_Catlady at 9/8/2018 03:46 PM UTC:

p.s. Jim, sorry I called you Tim. I know someone named Tim Higgins and my brain did a swap. :)-- J
I noticed, but it wasn't a problem. ;-)

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
For what it's worth, the above is how your signature appears now - no line breaks - in mail Groups.io sends to my personal email account. The reason is due to the <br/> tag between "fishy ones." and "My humanity..." It should be <br />, not <br/>. Hope that helps.

Jim H


 

Thanks! That's interesting, because here on the web it appears with a line break. When it appeared correctly in emails, it was double-spaced on the web - which caused me to get rid of what seemed to be the "extra" line break...???? 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Also, just noticing that in my email (gmail), it appears with a line break. Weird.


On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 5:57 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Thanks! That's interesting, because here on the web it appears with a line break. When it appeared correctly in emails, it was double-spaced on the web - which caused me to get rid of what seemed to be the "extra" line break...???? 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


KWKloeber
 

Ahem...
“You received”  (We’ll just keep hammering to go cleaner/crisper) :-)
 
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Donald Hellen
 

J,

I also see it that way with no space between the sentences and not
double spaced. There is a space before the hyphen before the name.

Donald

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 17:57:21 -0700, "J_Catlady"
<@J_Catlady> wrote:

Thanks! That's interesting, because here on the web it appears with a line break. When it appeared correctly in emails, it was double-spaced on the web - which caused me to get rid of what seemed to be the "extra" line break...???? 

Join the Icom group, a general Icom discussion group on Groups.io:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM (just launched)


Nina Eppes
 

How about "Message rejected by system"? Passive, I know, but it keeps the word "Message" first.

- Nina


 

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 05:58 AM, Nina Eppes wrote:
How about "Message rejected by system"
I like it!
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Leeni
 

But the message wasn't rejected by the system.
How about "Message rejected by Management" or Owner or Moderator or just plain "Message was rejected" Ilene 
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 9/9/2018 10:02:02 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Change "Rejected message" to "Message rejected" in member activity log
 
On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 05:58 AM, Nina Eppes wrote:
How about "Message rejected by system"
I like it!
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 


 

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 08:06 AM, magicalkingdomgroups@... wrote:
But the message wasn't rejected by the system.
Yes it was. We are not talking about "Rejected pending message." We are talking about automatically rejected messages due to size, attachments not allowed, etc. This is in the Message Activity log, not the Moderator Activity log.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu