Topics

moderated #owner email addressing #suggestion


Toby Kraft
 

From time to time in GMF, we get questions from people that create groups and can't find them, sometimes because they don't recall the email address they were logged into when the group was created.
So I thought one way to figure out what email address "owns" the group would be to search for it and send an email to the group owner address.  I expected that email to be sent To: the actual owner email address(es).  But alas, the message is addressed To: group+owner@groups.io with no easy way to view the destination address it was sent to (it's in the headers).
Seems like it would be useful to address the owner email To: the actual owner email address(es) and put a tag like [group+owner@groups.io] in the subject line.  Or add a footer to the message showing the address it was sent to like is now done for regular posts.
That way a "lost" owner can search for their group and send an owner email and when he/she gets it can see "Oh, I need to be logged in with that email address to administer this group!" ;)
Thanks,
Toby
Note: the approval email is addressed to the owner, perhaps it should have a footer also that says "Login to <email address> to administer your new group." or some such...


 

Toby,

Or add a footer to the message showing the address it
was sent to like is now done for regular posts.
I like that choice.

Note: the approval email *is* addressed to the owner, perhaps it
should have a footer also that says "Login to <email address> to
administer your new group." or some such...
... or some such. Said that tersely the user might think it means to log in to their email service.

The wording needs to be clear that the user needs to log in to Groups.io, putting that email address in the Email Address box on the Login page.

Shal


Jim Higgins
 

Received from Shal Farley at 8/4/2018 06:06 PM UTC:

Toby,

Or add a footer to the message showing the address it
was sent to like is now done for regular posts.
I like that choice.

So do I.

What I wouldn't like is for Groups.io to reveal the Owner's personal email address to someone sending email to GROUP+owner.

A slight catch to this approach is that the Owner/Recipient who has forgotten which email address he used when creating his group has to check mail at all the addresses he owns until he finds this email.

Jim H


 

Toby,

What I wouldn't like is for Groups.io to reveal the Owner's personal
email address to someone sending email to GROUP+owner.
I don't see any danger of that.

Well, maybe one - if an owner chooses to reply to such a message they might want to trim that footer if they're replying under a different address (say, spoofing the +owner address).

A slight catch to this approach is that the Owner/Recipient who has
forgotten which email address he used when creating his group has to
check mail at all the addresses he owns until he finds this email.
True, but I don't see a way around it.

I find it odd that a person can create a new group and then lose track of it. But this isn't the venue for puzzling that one out. Hopefully I'll learn something in GMF that sparks a suggestion for this group.

Shal


 

Oops. Toby Jim on prior message.


Bob Bellizzi
 

Sorry, I'm strongly against any changes too allow this.  
It's not a system problem but a personal problem in planning and management.
It's akin  to a programmer rewriting a commonly needed piece of code with at least one thing different a bunch of times instead of a closed subroutine.
How  tedious and unnecessary it must be to have to  constantly log out and in to manage different groups.
Seems to me that someone who puts themselves in this position should immediately correct it by inviting/direct installing a common owner email address into all of the groups they own.

--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


Toby Kraft
 

Bob,
Uhh, it's already "allowed" and groups.io has no way to prevent it.  I agree that it makes no sense for someone to do that to their self but they do.
This suggestion will help them (and we more experienced managers on GMF) sort it out and hopefully lead them to merge their accounts if they wish.
Thanks
Toby


Bob Bellizzi
 

Toby,
Then, rather than change groups.io wouldn't it make more sense to encourage and possibly provide a process or other aid for those less experienced?
It seems to me that the obvious fix is for the one in this jam to pick a single ownership email address, invite/direct add it to every group, make it an owner in each group and they would essentially be done.
I don't believe that we should be encouraging group owners to continue bad practices especially when the cure is so simple
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


Jim Higgins
 

Received from Bob Bellizzi at 8/4/2018 09:40 PM UTC:

Sorry, I'm strongly against any changes too allow this. It's not a system problem but a personal problem in planning and management.
I concur. It's not Gio's problem that a group owner didn't record the email address used to create the group. They know the addresses they use... they should just attempt to sign in using each one until thefind the one they used... and then learn from the process.

Jim H


Toby Kraft
 

Good grief.  It's only a suggestion.  Mark gets to weigh the merits of it and decide if he wants to implement it.
Toby


Bob Bellizzi
 

Toby,
I'm not beating you up.  But I think that suggestions should have strong general need for the overall improvement of groups.io.
To me, this one would encourage sloppy group management so I'm strongly against it.

--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


KWKloeber
 

It’s the 99%, 1% rule. 

Ken

Sent from my phone

On Aug 5, 2018, at 1:50 PM, Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:

Toby,
I'm not beating you up.  But I think that suggestions should have strong general need for the overall improvement of groups.io.
To me, this one would encourage sloppy group management so I'm strongly against it.

--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


Toby Kraft
 

Bob, I don't see how it encourages anything.  It's just a smidgen more info in a couple of places that would take maybe a few lines of code to implement.  
As far as the creator email put in the approval message, that would reduce the chance of someone getting confused.  That's only 1 line of code:
this.approval.body += "\r\nGroup created by " + this.account.email + "."; (or something similar)
Thanks
Toby


Bob Bellizzi
 

As a career software person I would be hesitant to assume that a smidgen, etc anywhere is all it takes because I haven't a clue about the architecture of the software except to know from Mark's updates that it is distributed across several physical machines.  That fact alone would inhibit me from making assumptions about what the level of difficulty would be to implement any change.

 BTW I couldn't find any post on GMF about not being able to remember an owner's email address.  Can you point me to one or two such requests?

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


Toby Kraft
 

"Career software person" - same here.
Smidgen refers to the amount of info being added to the body of the approval message = 1 email address already known at the time the message is being created, obviously, since it is being sent to that email address.
If Mark has farms of servers, he undoubtedly has a way to push production code to them.
But we digress...
The issue came up in this thread where Shal and I were trying to help Lenny find his group that he may or may not have created.  Shal suggested that Lenny may be logged into an email address other than the one used to create the group.  I suggested looking for the approval email or searching for the group and sending a message to the "owner" address as 2 means Lenny could use to discern the "creator" email address.  When I realized that messages sent to the "owner" address do not have the destination email address in the To: field, I posted a suggestion here to do so, and that, prompted the 2nd idea to simply add the "creator" email address to the approval message.
Toby

With any luck, Mark will close this thread now.. :)


Jim Higgins
 

Good grief right back atcha! ;-)

I think owner opinion as to the value to Groups.io should be a factor when Mark makes his decision and the only way he'll get that is if open discussion of proposed changes is encouraged rather than discouraged.

Jim H



Received from Toby Kraft at 8/5/2018 02:14 PM UTC:

Good grief. It's only a suggestion. Mark gets to weigh the merits of it and decide if he wants to implement it.
Toby