#### moderated Calendar missing "Last" function for repeating events

Michael Pavan

Would this work if the event was initially scheduled when the “Last”
was also the “Fourth”, rather than the “Fifth"?
No, then you get the fourth. To be shown my proposed option you'd need to start by creating the event on a fifth/last date.

I hadn't thought of it, but the idea could easily be extended to incorporate the fourth, simply by showing an option to select between fourth and last if the date happens to be a fourth. That way you're covered.

It just seems like the existing algorithm was designed for 28 day
months, ... doesn’t it make more sense to just to start with a 31 day
month in mind?
I don't know that there's a mindset issue involved.
I agree that this 'fix' with a radio button ‘works’ to correct the mis-diagnosis of whether an event is 'fourth', 'fifth', or ‘last’; but it’s sort of like the models that ‘worked’ of our solar system with the Earth as center, rather than the Sun.

One benefit of the current scheme is that you can't create a logical problem by defining a repeat that doesn't include the start date (the date on which you created the event).
??? I don’t think this ‘logical problem’ can logically exist.
How could one define a repeating event if not from its start date?
All repeating events have to repeat an initial event, otherwise they are simply all initial events which coincidentally are identical except for their dates.
Would one have to schedule two or more identical initial events (except for dates) and then merge them somehow??
Or something else?

I'm not sure what the proper interaction is between choosing "fifth" and also a "Repeat Every" greater than one. The current behavior seems to be an intersection of the two (every nth month, unless there isn't a fifth that month).
Any "fifth" only occurs 4 or 5 time a year - usually every 3rd month, but sometimes the 2nd or 4th month.

If an event 'repeats every fifth' one would want to select "Repeats Every" as "1", because "2" implies 'repeats every second fifth' and "3" 'every third fifth', etc.

Selecting “1” works to schedule 'every fifth’.

Selecting “2” does not schedule ‘every second fifth’ - what is does is only check every second month for a ‘fifth’.
Selecting “3” does not schedule ‘every third fifth’ - what is does is only check every third month for a ‘fifth'.

That's probably a sane choice.
It is probably a safe and practical choice, as I doubt any ‘last’ events are not every ‘last’.
It would seem the logical choice would be "every nth fifth”, in other words “every nth (every month unless there isn’t a fifth that month)”.

-Michael

Michael,

Would this work if the event was initially scheduled when the “Last”
was also the “Fourth”, rather than the “Fifth"?
No, then you get the fourth. To be shown my proposed option you'd need to start by creating the event on a fifth/last date.

I hadn't thought of it, but the idea could easily be extended to incorporate the fourth, simply by showing an option to select between fourth and last if the date happens to be a fourth. That way you're covered.

It just seems like the existing algorithm was designed for 28 day
months, ... doesn’t it make more sense to just to start with a 31 day
month in mind?
I don't know that there's a mindset issue involved. One benefit of the current scheme is that you can't create a logical problem by defining a repeat that doesn't include the start date (the date on which you created the event).

I'm not sure what the proper interaction is between choosing "fifth" and also a "Repeat Every" greater than one. The current behavior seems to be an intersection of the two (every nth month, unless there isn't a fifth that month). That's probably a sane choice.

Shal

Michael Pavan

On Aug 4, 2018, at 2:26 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

Michael,

4th, 5th, and Last are different, and should not be mixed up.
Indeed.

And in the very next paragraph I proposed a simple way to do that.
You suggested:

| So the other option is to, in that case, reveal a control (radio buttons) to select between "fifth" and "last", probably just below the control that selects between "day of the week" and "day of the month”

Would this work if the event was initially scheduled when the “Last” was also the “Fourth”, rather than the “Fifth"?

It just seems like the existing algorithm was designed for 28 day months, rather than try to correct its possible/probable mistakes, doesn’t it make more sense to just to start with a 31 day month in mind?

-----Original Message-----
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shal
Farley
Sent: 04 August 2018 19:27
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Calendar missing "Last" function for repeating events

Michael,

> 4th, 5th, and Last are different, and should not be mixed up.

Indeed.

And in the very next paragraph I proposed a simple way to do that.

Shal
Shal,
If I read the proposal correctly you need to find a month that has a fifth day of the one you wish to use. So for example if I want the last Tuesday, then I would need to start the event in October, other Tuesdays would come out as fourth.....
Dave

Michael,

4th, 5th, and Last are different, and should not be mixed up.
Indeed.

And in the very next paragraph I proposed a simple way to do that.

Shal

Michael Pavan

On Aug 2, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Michael Pavan <michaelpavan@comcast.net> wrote:

Some events repeat on the last <weekday> of the month, e.g. "Monthly on the Last Saturday"
which will be either the 4th or 5th Saturday of a month
(because except for non-leap year Februaries, all months have 29, 30, or 31 days).

The Calendar: Repeats: Repeat Summary automatically chooses: Fourth or Fifth
depending on the particular month when the repeating event's start date is set,
unfortunately this design does not recognize that the event could be Last, rather than Fourth or Fifth.

I suggest the fix is to make it a manual choice of: First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, or Last

I understand this conceptually, but am having a difficult time mapping it to the existing system (perhaps lingering jet lag has something to do with it). Can you give me some examples using the existing system and what you'd add?
Maybe the fix is:
1) Reposition "Repeat by day of the week” to after “Repeats” drop down menu, but before "Repeat Every” drop down menu - and perhaps "Repeat by day of the month” button, too

2) Change "Repeat by day of the week” from a button (on/off) to a drop down menu (First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, or Last)
[Let the user set this, rather than have an algorithm try to figure it out if it is Fourth, Fifth, or Last when the day is the 29th, 30th, or 31st of a month]

3) If “Last” is selected, bypass "Repeat Every” drop down menu, or add “N/A or “as occurs” to "Repeat Every” drop down menu
Oops, 3) should be:
3) If “Fifth” is selected, bypass "Repeat Every” drop down menu, or add “N/A or “as occurs” to "Repeat Every” drop down menu

Michael Pavan

Some events repeat on the last <weekday> of the month, e.g. "Monthly on the Last Saturday"
which will be either the 4th or 5th Saturday of a month
(because except for non-leap year Februaries, all months have 29, 30, or 31 days).

The Calendar: Repeats: Repeat Summary automatically chooses: Fourth or Fifth
depending on the particular month when the repeating event's start date is set,
unfortunately this design does not recognize that the event could be Last, rather than Fourth or Fifth.

I suggest the fix is to make it a manual choice of: First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, or Last

I understand this conceptually, but am having a difficult time mapping it to the existing system (perhaps lingering jet lag has something to do with it). Can you give me some examples using the existing system and what you'd add?
Maybe the fix is:
1) Reposition "Repeat by day of the week” to after “Repeats” drop down menu, but before "Repeat Every” drop down menu - and perhaps "Repeat by day of the month” button, too

2) Change "Repeat by day of the week” from a button (on/off) to a drop down menu (First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, or Last)
[Let the user set this, rather than have an algorithm try to figure it out if it is Fourth, Fifth, or Last when the day is the 29th, 30th, or 31st of a month]

3) If “Last” is selected, bypass "Repeat Every” drop down menu, or add “N/A or “as occurs” to "Repeat Every” drop down menu

Michael Pavan

My first reaction is to say that's daft. Who wants an event that skips some months? So one possibility is just to change the logic (and that text) to implement "last" instead of "fifth".
We have a group that meets different places on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Tuesdays. When a month with a 5th Tuesday occurs we have a ‘bonus’ meeting at another location.

Another group’s event is scheduled for the last Saturday of the month.

4th, 5th, and Last are different, and should not be mixed up.

Mark,

I don’t think its possible to map this into the existing system, which is why we are asking. There are two options, set it to the fourth and then manually adjust those months where there are five of the days of interest, and then when saving choose “just this event”, or create a “fourth” and a “fifth” day of the month event and delete the fourths where there is a fifth.

Dave

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: 02 August 2018 05:47
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Calendar missing "Last" function for repeating events

Hi Michael,

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Michael Pavan <michaelpavan@...> wrote:

Some events repeat on the last <weekday> of the month, e.g. "Monthly on the Last Saturday"
which will be either the 4th or 5th Saturday of a month
(because except for non-leap year Februaries, all months have 29, 30, or 31 days).

The Calendar: Repeats: Repeat Summary automatically chooses: Fourth or Fifth
depending on the particular month when the repeating event's start date is set,
unfortunately this design does not recognize that the event could be Last, rather than Fourth or Fifth.

I suggest the fix is to make it a manual choice of: First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, or Last

I understand this conceptually, but am having a difficult time mapping it to the existing system (perhaps lingering jet lag has something to do with it). Can you give me some examples using the existing system and what you'd add?

Thanks,

Mark

Mark,

Can you give me some examples using the existing system and what you'd
Pick August 29th (the next example date) and create an event on it.
o Check Event Repeats
o Select Monthly
o Repeat every 1 Month
o Repeat by day of week

The repeat Summary says "Monthly on the Fifth Wednesday".

My first reaction is to say that's daft. Who wants an event that skips some months? So one possibility is just to change the logic (and that text) to implement "last" instead of "fifth".

But undoubtedly some users do. So the other option is to, in that case, reveal a control (radio buttons) to select between "fifth" and "last", probably just below the control that selects between "day of the week" and "day of the month".

Shal

Hi Michael,

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Michael Pavan wrote:
Some events repeat on the last <weekday> of the month, e.g. "Monthly on the Last Saturday"
which will be either the 4th or 5th Saturday of a month
(because except for non-leap year Februaries, all months have 29, 30, or 31 days).

The Calendar: Repeats: Repeat Summary automatically chooses: Fourth or Fifth
depending on the particular month when the repeating event's start date is set,
unfortunately this design does not recognize that the event could be Last, rather than Fourth or Fifth.

I suggest the fix is to make it a manual choice of: First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, or Last

I understand this conceptually, but am having a difficult time mapping it to the existing system (perhaps lingering jet lag has something to do with it). Can you give me some examples using the existing system and what you'd add?

Thanks,
Mark

Dan Hartford

Me too.  Mimicking the repeat options from MS/Outlook would be pretty robust.

I have just hit this. One of my groups holds a meeting on the "last" Monday of each month. We used to have this set up in yahoo.

Michael Pavan

Some events repeat on the last <weekday> of the month, e.g. "Monthly on the Last Saturday"
which will be either the 4th or 5th Saturday of a month
(because except for non-leap year Februaries, all months have 29, 30, or 31 days).

The Calendar: Repeats: Repeat Summary automatically chooses: Fourth or Fifth
depending on the particular month when the repeating event's start date is set,
unfortunately this design does not recognize that the event could be Last, rather than Fourth or Fifth.

I suggest the fix is to make it a manual choice of: First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, or Last

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