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locked signature included in ellipses text when top-posting #bug

 

I would call it a problem (not quite a "bug" but close) that the signature is swept into the text of the ellipses when top posting. Not sure there's a reasonable solution to this.
--
J

Statements made in messages to the beta group are the sole opinion of the author. :-)

It's dumb to buy smart water.

 

Bumping this up: There is never a signature shown when top-posting. Can the signature be pulled out of the ellipses?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.

 

On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 11:37 AM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Bumping this up: There is never a signature shown when top-posting. Can the signature be pulled out of the ellipses?

Hmm. What I've been working towards is to actually collapse all signatures in messages so that none of them show up in the archives, regardless of where the message came from. I think the repetitive text of signatures bloats the page when viewing a thread and adds nothing. Are you saying you want all signatures to show up all the time? Or am I misunderstanding the request?

Thanks,
Mark

 

Mark,

 I'm saying that my signature doesn't show up at all in this case. What's the point of the profile page allowing the setting of an auto signature for email posts when it doesn't show up because you're going to get rid of them? I don't know what you mean by "all signatures" but it seems you're trying to remove repetition of the signature? I totally agree with that, but what's happening now is that no signature is showing up all. What's worse, the user (me LOL) assumes that it shows up because they've set their auto signature to show up in email, and hence they don't add it by hand. At least if we know it's going to be removed (or not added) we can add it manually. (I'm talking about the person who replies via a top post.)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.

 

p.s. In re-reading your message here, it seems you don't want ANY signatures to show up in the archives? I don't understand why (if so) and I disagree that they "bloat" the archives. Even if they do, In some groups (not mine), signatures are required and if you don't include one the moderators will get on your case and say "please sign your posts" etc.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.

Bob Bellizzi
 

In a group such as our corneal dystrophy group the signature helps responders decide what level of detail/technicality to use in their reply.

Newer persons who are searching for whether or not they will need a corneal transplant have to have answers different from those who are 'tweenies' who had on cornea transplant and are dealing with totally different set of issues but know the technical terms, etc.

The signature is the key for us.

Bob Bellizzi

 

There is also one very large and well-established pet health yahoo group whom I am trying to convince to move, whose signatures may be similar to what Bob is talking about. In that group, the signature basically summarizes the animal's complete medical history, geographical location, etc. and is required to be included at the bottom of every post of the post is not approved. I assume that since they're still in yahoo, the members are forced to do this manually somehow  (I don't think yahoo has auto signatures). The auto signature feature here would obviously be very useful for them, but only if it is not removed by the system!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 21, 2016, at 8:55 PM, Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:

In a group such as our corneal dystrophy group the signature helps responders decide what level of detail/technicality to use in their reply.

Newer persons who are searching for whether or not they will need a corneal transplant have to have answers different from those who are 'tweenies' who had on cornea transplant and are dealing with totally different set of issues but know the technical terms, etc.

The signature is the key for us.

Bob Bellizzi

 
Edited

p.s. In my post just prior to this one, which is a top-post via email in response to Bob's post, you can see that my signature doesn't appear at all, even within the ellipses. I am trying to figure out whether that's intentional or a glitch....???

EDIT! Oops, that was an unjust "accusation." I just recalled that I'd turned off my email auto-signature very recently because of this problem. So I don't know whether it would have appeared or not. I suspect it would have appeared, but only within the ellipses. I'll turn it back on now and pay closer attention to what happens, now that this is being discussed. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.

 

J,

I think we're talking about two things here. One is a potential bug where the signature isn't inserted into a reply. I haven't been able to reproduce that. Please let me know if you see that. Signatures should always be inserted when replying to a message on the site.

The other issue is whether signatures should be displayed when viewing the archives. I'll start another thread specifically for that.

Thanks,
Mark

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 10:23 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: see edit in yellow - I'd turned off my email auto signature]

p.s. In my post just prior to this one, which is a top-post via email in response to Bob's post, you can see that my signature doesn't appear at all, even within the ellipses. I am trying to figure out whether that's intentional or a glitch....???

EDIT! Oops, that was an unjust "accusation." I just recalled that I'd turned off my email auto-signature very recently because of this problem. So I don't know whether it would have appeared or not. I suspect it would have appeared, but only within the ellipses. I'll turn it back on now and pay closer attention to what happens, now that this is being discussed. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


 

J,

It seems an issue is that, when replying on the web, if you hit the Quote Whole Post button to include the post you're replying to, that your sig is placed below the quoted post, but then you top post your reply (i.e. only enter text above the quoted reply). Do I have that right?

I have the sig placed below the quoted post because I always figured that if you're including the quoted post, you're going to either inline reply or bottom reply, and the sig makes the most sense being at the bottom in those cases. Otherwise why include the quoted post? 

Thanks,
Mark

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:49 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
J,

I think we're talking about two things here. One is a potential bug where the signature isn't inserted into a reply. I haven't been able to reproduce that. Please let me know if you see that. Signatures should always be inserted when replying to a message on the site.

The other issue is whether signatures should be displayed when viewing the archives. I'll start another thread specifically for that.

Thanks,
Mark

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 10:23 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: see edit in yellow - I'd turned off my email auto signature]

p.s. In my post just prior to this one, which is a top-post via email in response to Bob's post, you can see that my signature doesn't appear at all, even within the ellipses. I am trying to figure out whether that's intentional or a glitch....???

EDIT! Oops, that was an unjust "accusation." I just recalled that I'd turned off my email auto-signature very recently because of this problem. So I don't know whether it would have appeared or not. I suspect it would have appeared, but only within the ellipses. I'll turn it back on now and pay closer attention to what happens, now that this is being discussed. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.



 

Mark

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:53 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:

It seems an issue is that, when replying on the web, if you hit the Quote Whole Post button to include the post you're replying to, that your sig is placed below the quoted post, but then you top post your reply (i.e. only enter text above the quoted reply). Do I have that right?

No, that's not my issue (although it may be Duane's - this discussion certainly has been confusing). My issue comes about when top-posting via email. The signature is subsumed within the ellipses and does not show up on the site at all, unless someone clicks on the ellipses. 

Re your question: Placing the sig after a quoted prior post when replying via the web is not serious (although a case could be made that it's annoying). In that case, the user can easily see what's happening and can find and move the sig to wherever they want. But in collapsing via email, the user has no control over it, as far as I can see - which makes it worse. I'd sooner remove my email auto sig (as I did a few days ago because of this) and insert it manually when I want it to show up.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.

 

Mark, I think I've finally connected the dots on this. The two issues are connected because it's the sig being placed below the quoted post that causes it to be collapsed along with the quote and therefore not show up onlist.  

The email has no control over this. The web user does, but I still agree with Duane (in the other thread) that the sig should be pulled up  and placed directly below the reply. It is rare that I quote an entire post, and if I do, I do it only to make clear which post in the thread I'm replying to. If I'm going to post inline, I use partial quotes. 

As to your question 'why else include the entire prior post,' that's because people posting via email are lazy (like me here) and/or have trouble trimming prior posts on their phones. I estimate that 90% of people in my group who respond via email don't bother to trim (even savvy users). The collapsing is a great convenience. However, the result is the sig not showing up because it's at the bottom and therefore within the ellipses.

I hope any of that made sense. I am out for a hike and it just hit me. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2016, at 11:01 AM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Mark

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:53 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:

It seems an issue is that, when replying on the web, if you hit the Quote Whole Post button to include the post you're replying to, that your sig is placed below the quoted post, but then you top post your reply (i.e. only enter text above the quoted reply). Do I have that right?

No, that's not my issue (although it may be Duane's - this discussion certainly has been confusing). My issue comes about when top-posting via email. The signature is subsumed within the ellipses and does not show up on the site at all, unless someone clicks on the ellipses. 

Re your question: Placing the sig after a quoted prior post when replying via the web is not serious (although a case could be made that it's annoying). In that case, the user can easily see what's happening and can find and move the sig to wherever they want. But in collapsing via email, the user has no control over it, as far as I can see - which makes it worse. I'd sooner remove my email auto sig (as I did a few days ago because of this) and insert it manually when I want it to show up.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.

 

J,

The email has no control over this. The web user does, but I still agree
with Duane (in the other thread) that the sig should be pulled up and
placed directly below the reply.
This may depend on the email interface you use. Gmail has a checkbox immediately below the box where your compose your signature: "Insert this signature before quoted text in replies and remove the "--" line that precedes it" on the webmail desktop (I don't know if that affects mobile).

Thunderbird has an option for this as well, though the "(recommended)" setting is "below the quote".


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum

 

Shal,

I meant that the email *user* (typo I didn't bother to correct) has no control over where *Groups.io* puts the signature (and nothing to do with the email auto sig). If you're posting via the web, you can see your draft, with the signature below the whole thing, and you can move it around. But when you post via email, you just take it on faith that AFTER hitting "send," Groups.io will add your signature. You have no control over where. You can't see the sig a priori in a draft and you can't move it around. So (currently) it gets shoved under the whole conversation thread as it exists in the email, and as a result, is wiped out by the ellipses when the message appears onsite. No signature.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.

 

On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 06:22 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
Gmail has a checkbox immediately below the box where your compose your signature: "Insert this signature before quoted text in replies

Come to think of it, Groups.io could provide a setting like that. Argument over. :-) 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.

 

J,

I meant that the email *user* (typo I didn't bother to correct) has no
control over where *Groups.io* puts the signature (and nothing to do
with the email auto sig).
Oh, right. I forgot about the "Use Signature For Email Posting" option.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum

 

On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 07:07 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
I forgot about the "Use Signature For Email Posting" option

That is the whole subject of the problem I have been trying to describe!!! The auto email signature never appears if the person top posts, because it gets swept into the ellipses.

That's why this problem is related to the other one about whether sigs should appear in the onlist posts (aka archives). When Mark said he was trying to wipe out sigs in the archives, I thought maybe he was *intentionally* sweeping the email sigs into the ellipses. And when Duane responded (in *that* separate thread) that the sigs should be pulled up and placed directly below the reply, I realized that it would also solve the problem of email sigs disappearing into ellipses.

I'm not sure any of this is getting through. It is difficult to explain in these emails, with everyone (seemingly) talking about something different. There is posting via email vs. posting via web, and then reading via email vs. reading via the web. The problem I'm describing, or trying to describe, is when the reply is posted via email, and then read on the web. In that case, the signature disappears. You might as well do away with auto e sigs as they stand, because they never show up unless the person is sending a brand new post, or unless they meticulously clip (which most of my group members, at least, never do). 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.

 

Mark,

Hmm. What I've been working towards is to actually collapse all
signatures in messages so that none of them show up in the archives,
regardless of where the message came from. I think the repetitive text
of signatures bloats the page when viewing a thread and adds nothing.
That might be ok for Thread View, but in Single View I feel much more strongly that the signature accompanying the message ought to be shown, even when quoted material is hidden under the ellipses button.

And yes, regardless of whether the message (and its sig) was composed on site or via email.

Ideally that would work regardless of whether the sig is above or below the quoted material, but I realize that it may be more difficult to deal with the case of the sig below.

Shal

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum

 

I think Mark wants to keep these topics separate, and I understand that. I think the ellipses issue *is* separate from "how many" sigs should appear onsite. I alone thought that they were connected, because I misunderstood and thought that perhaps Mark *intentionally* collapsed the auto email sig into the ellipses, causing them not to appear on site. I don't now think that's intentional, and I think it needs to be solved, and THEN separately the other issue (when do we want sigs to appear on site) can be figured out.

It seems to me that offering a choice akin to gmail's auto sig choice ("place sig above or below quoted message") might be a good idea. Anyone who picks "above" would be in the clear as far as their email sig appearing onlist in their posts. However, anyone who chooses "below" would have to be made to understand that their sig would get swept away into the ellipses. So all things considered, I would not make this an option and just put the sig directly below the reply. I don't know how many people respond inline when responding via email to emails. I certainly never do. So this doesn't seem like a great risk.

You could still do the sigs either way for posts via the web, but it might be better to be consistent and just put them directly below the response there as well.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.