moderated Digests do not automatically include the message replied to


Paul Fraser <paul1959fraser@...>
 

Hi,
I have searched this topic but have found no mention of it. If this is the not the correct place to post this feature request please tell where I should do this.

Currently, my Yahoogroups list puts outs digests that not only include the message posted but also attaches the message that is being replied to. Ours is a busy group so this is an important feature—context would quickly be lost otherwise.
Groups.io digests strip out the message that is replied to, so in our test group this led to nearly unintelligible digests. Is it possible to change groups.io digests so they mirror Yahoogroups behaviour?

PS I’ve found a way to fudge the issue (by turning on the signature block) for all users except those who reply via the web interface without quoting the message they are replying to. “Educating” our users is unlikely to produce the required result.

Regards,
--
Paul Fraser


 

Paul,

Groups.io digests strip out the message that is replied to, so in our
test group this led to nearly unintelligible digests. Is it possible
to change groups.io digests so they mirror Yahoogroups behaviour?
I've wished for limited quoting in digests. By limited I mean just the direct quote (first-level) and not the quotes that quote drags in. One of the defects of the Y!Group digest is that it can get unreadable when a message quotes a message and that message quoted prior messages, and so on.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/1433

Later I proposed a snippet of the quoted message, rather than the whole quote, might provide sufficient context in the majority of cases. That is probably simpler to implement than my prior suggestion (so more likely to be implemented). It would also have the benefit of being briefer, keeping the Digest more readable.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/2267

PS I’ve found a way to fudge the issue (by turning on the signature
block) for all users except those who reply via the web interface
without quoting the message they are replying to.
Hm... That might represent a bug of sorts. You mean the quote detection fails when there's a trailing sig applied by the group?

“Educating” our users is unlikely to produce the required result.
That is the bane of all email systems. Well, maybe all systems.

Shal


 

Paul,

Groups.io digests strip out the message that is replied to, so in our
test group this led to nearly unintelligible digests. Is it possible
to change groups.io digests so they mirror Yahoogroups behaviour?
I've wished for limited quoting in digests. By limited I mean just the direct quote (first-level) and not the quotes that quote drags in. One of the defects of the Y!Group digest is that it can get unreadable when a message quotes a message and that message quoted prior messages, and so on.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/1433

Later I proposed a snippet of the quoted message, rather than the whole quote, might provide sufficient context in the majority of cases. That is probably simpler to implement than my prior suggestion (so more likely to be implemented). It would also have the benefit of being briefer, keeping the Digest more readable.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/2267

PS I’ve found a way to fudge the issue (by turning on the signature
block) for all users except those who reply via the web interface
without quoting the message they are replying to.
Hm... That might represent a bug of sorts. You mean the quote detection fails when there's a trailing sig applied by the group?

“Educating” our users is unlikely to produce the required result.
That is the bane of all email systems. Well, maybe all systems.

Shal


ro-esp
 

On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 07:02 am, Paul Fraser wrote:

Groups.io digests strip out the message that is replied to
err..no. it removes everything under the last unindented line, and If I had my way this would be the standard - as it supports traditional quoting in "usenet" and most decent discussion-lists.

If people put their comments/answers UNDER the relevant/respective pieces of quote, there is no problem.

Is it possible to change
groups.io digests so they mirror Yahoogroups behaviour?
What behaviour do you mean exactly? Sending along the entire message replied to, and the one that replied to, and the one before that?
That would not be practical

groetjes, Ronaldo


Paul Fraser <paul1959fraser@...>
 

Shal Farley wrote:

>>Later I proposed a snippet of the quoted message, rather than the whole
quote, might provide sufficient context in the majority of cases. That
is probably simpler to implement than my prior suggestion (so more
likely to be implemented). It would also have the benefit of being
briefer, keeping the Digest more readable.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/2267

That would be a good solution. How do I support this?

>>>> PS I’ve found a way to fudge the issue (by turning on the signature
> block) for all users except those who reply via the web interface
> without quoting the message they are replying to.

>>Hm... That might represent a bug of sorts. You mean the quote detection
fails when there's a trailing sig applied by the group?

If I understand it correctly, this works for allpoting types bar web interface non-quoting replies.
Thanks for your reply.
--
Paul Fraser


Paul Fraser <paul1959fraser@...>
 

Ronaldo wrote:

Groups.io digests strip out the message that is replied to
err..no. it removes everything under the last unindented line, and If I had my way this would be the standard - as it supports traditional quoting in "usenet" and most decent discussion-lists.
I’m not sure what the difference in the end result is. Ideally our users would reply in a format similar to this post but they are either unable to do so or unable to learn. PS, the way the indenting works on the plain text digest (?) the one space indent is not particularly obvious.


If people put their comments/answers UNDER the relevant/respective pieces of quote, there is no problem.
That requires people to adapt to the software and not vice versa. This is the tail wagging the dog.


Is it possible to change
groups.io digests so they mirror Yahoogroups behaviour?
What behaviour do you mean exactly? Sending along the entire message replied to, and the one that replied to, and the one before that?
That would not be practical


That is what Yahoo Groups’ digests do now, so not ‘impractical’. Shal mentioned in another message a limited quote function. The first previous message, or a set number of lines would provide enough context for a non-quoting reply.
i concede that that this does not seem to be a big problem elsewhere but I thought I would ask :)

--
Paul Fraser


John Russell
 

Hi everyone,

Over the years, I have trained my members to include the part of the message that their reply relates to. This is important when you have a lively discussion and your message is not a reply to the latest message, but one earlier in the topic. In February we moved from Yahoo! Groups to Groups,io and at first there were very few problems. There was some confusion amongst the website users (no email), when we moved, as they had to learn to use the speech bubble and then trim the text to the few lines necessary to provide context, when writing a reply. There was also some confusion amongst the website users when reading these emails with included text, until they realize the elipses (known as 3 dots in my group) hid the included text and needed a click to see this text. So, after some time, we all settled down to the new way of doing things.

Now comes the big problem. The Digest users keep saying where are the 3 dots you keep mentioning and why can't I click on 3 dots and see the included text? Where is the context to this reply, and accusing members of not including context. Some of the website users were reminding their fellow website users to use the 3 dots to see the included text. The digest users were very unhappy as they could not see the context from any of the users (whatever the delivery method) and were confused about which reply belonged to which previous message. I (the owner of the group) did not realise until last week (even though we moved in February), that the Digest removed all the quoted text. This is a big problem for our Digest users and I would like to go back to having this text included.

What I am thinking is that I would propose (in the Beta group) that an option be added to the settings, so that you can have the included text trimmed or not. The default would be as it is now, so as not to disturb any current users of Groups.io, but owners or moderators can switch off the trimming of included text, of course, at the risk of too much being included (chains of included emails).

I don't think it would be a big deal to implement such an option. Would there be any objections to me making such a suggestion?

Regards

John Russell


Duane
 

One 'easy' way to handle this is to top quote or intersperse, as Paul did in https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/17066.  To avoid using the entire message, those online can highlight the part they want to include before clicking on reply.

Duane


ro-esp
 

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 06:25 am, John Russell wrote:


Now comes the big problem. The Digest users keep saying where are the 3 dots
you keep mentioning and why can't I click on 3 dots and see the included text?
Where is the context to this reply, and accusing members of not including
context. Some of the website users were reminding their fellow website users
to use the 3 dots to see the included text. The digest users were very unhappy
as they could not see the context from any of the users (whatever the delivery
method) and were confused about which reply belonged to which previous
message. I (the owner of the group) did not realise until last week (even
though we moved in February), that the Digest removed all the quoted text.
This is a big problem for our Digest users and I would like to go back to
having this text included.
Have you seen the previous messages in this thread? Groups.io does not remove *all* quoted text, it removes the quoted text under the last unindented line. All people who want the quote to stay have to do is type anything UNDER IT.

What I am thinking is that I would propose (in the Beta group) that an option
be added to the settings, so that you can have the included text trimmed or
not.
For all intents and purposes, we already have that. Like I just said. And no, I don't consider telling people to put something at the bottom of their messages to be "the tail wagging the dog". It has been proper netiquette in email and usenet for years

owners or moderators can switch off the trimming of included
text, of course, at the risk of too much being included (chains of included
emails).

I don't think it would be a big deal to implement such an option. Would there
be any objections to me making such a suggestion?
Apart from requiring some science-fiction-type artificial intelligence to be smart enough to know what to trim and what not?
Or digests becoming undigestable because people are too lazy to trim messages (or were even TAUGHT not to) ?

If it were up to me (which it isn't), autotrim would be the norm even for non-digest messages

groetjes, Ronaldo

groetjes, Ronaldo


Paul Fraser <paul1959fraser@...>
 

Hi John,
This digest problem prevented our move to groups.io.
Short answer to the problem: turn on the auto sig block for everyone (or if you have 10,000 users you may need to get them to, I'm not sure there is a bulk option for this), for both web _and_ email replies, and put in a standard message, e.g. "this line added for digest context quoting" or hopefully something catchier :)
This should solve all problems apart from some email systems (we had one problem with Outlook and one with the Gmail app--but not gmail on the webpage) and those who use the web interface and top post. These latter will need to quote and then post their reply below.
Hope this helps (it was some time ago I looked at this). I'd be interested in feedback as to how this works for you.
Best,
--
Paul Fraser