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moderated "Down for maintenance" -- time to grow up...


 

When you have advance notice that the groups.io site needs to be turned off for maintenance, etc.

1. Send out an email to all group owners, letting them know of the start time and estimated duration

2. Do #1 with as much advance notice as you can provide, so owners can alert their members

3. Can the cat pictures.  It may have been cute when groups.io started, but it's time to "grow up" and put up a professional message of the site's status, so that any member who didn't get a heads up from their group owner, knows what's going on.

Seriously, please.


 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 08:15 pm, Steve wrote:
Can the cat pictures.
That would be unacceptable! >_<
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Steve,

*1. Send out an email to all group owners, letting them know of the
start time and estimated duration*
Perhaps group owners should have, or be offered, a default subscription to http://status.groups.io/

Of course the corollary to that is that the outage be listed there.

*3. /Can the cat pictures/. It may have been cute when groups.io
started, but it's time to "grow up" and put up a professional message
of the site's status, ...
I see nothing wrong with this bit of whimsy. Growing up is optional, even with the largest of tech companies.
https://www.google.com/doodles

Anyone remember this guy?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/6210313586/

Shal


Chris Jones
 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:28 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
I see nothing wrong with this bit of whimsy. Growing up is optional, even with the largest of tech companies.
I have to agree with that, though I agree that the planned downtime could have been better announced, particularly for paid - for groups.

Chris


Ruthie Levi
 

the outage was announced well in advance

there was a banner across the groups home page yesterday, well in advance

mark’s playground, his rules, his cats

& how long was the outage for???

 

sheesh, in the realm of what to complain about & considering from where most of us came(yahoogroups), this outage was so well handled, my group mods were incredibly pleased. but hey, my group is only the most active & most popular on IO, so what do we know?! 😊

 

peace out, people,

 

ruthie levi

 

original msg:

"Down for maintenance" -- time to grow up...
From: Steve
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 20:15:12 PDT

When you have advance notice that the groups.io site needs to be turned off for maintenance, etc.

1. Send out an email to all group owners, letting them know of the start time and estimated duration

2. Do #1 with as much advance notice as you can provide, so owners can alert their members

3. Can the cat pictures.
  It may have been cute when groups.io started, but it's time to "grow up" and put up a professional message of the site's status, so that any member who didn't get a heads up from their group owner, knows what's going on.

Seriously, please.

 

 


Chris Jones
 

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 12:26 am, Ruthie Levi wrote:

the outage was announced well in advance

Indeed it was, but to a limited audience on beta. Not all groups are represented on beta, or the GMF for that matter. Not by a very wide margin...

 

there was a banner across the groups home page yesterday, well in advance

See my post on GMF yesterday; if my experience is in any way typical then most Groups.io users don't use the web access much, if at all.

 

mark’s playground, his rules, his cats

True for free groups, but I'm not sure that you can say that about "paid - for" ones.

Chris


Dave Sergeant
 

In this particular case the downtime was relatively short (but during
daytime in the UK) that most would not even have been aware of it.
Longer time outages should maybe be given more publicity but I am not
sure a blanket posting to all groups would really help.

My only gripe with the downtime announcements is that they should be
given directly in UTC rather than USA Pacific time (UTC-8) when we have
to do a mental calculation in our heads to work out when it is.

As for cats, I had not even noticed them in my plain text emails...

Dave

On 11 May 2018 at 1:55, Chris Jones via Groups.Io wrote:

Indeed it was, but to a limited audience on beta. Not all groups are
represented on beta, or the GMF for that matter. Not by a very wide
margin...

http://davesergeant.com


Arno Martens
 

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 02:06 am, Dave Sergeant wrote:

My only gripe with the downtime announcements is that they should be
given directly in UTC rather than USA Pacific time (UTC-8) when we have
to do a mental calculation in our heads to work out when it is.
Agree with that, being at UTC-5 (well, UTC-4 now during Daylight Savings Time).
What I would really like to see is the elimination of the horrific AM and PM which, of course, will allow for simple calculation.


 

Hi All,

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Steve,

> *1. Send out an email to all group owners, letting them know of the
> start time and estimated duration*

Perhaps group owners should have, or be offered, a default subscription to http://status.groups.io/

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. Except that I hope to at some point move that to something more self-hosted.

 
Of course the corollary to that is that the outage be listed there.

Fair point!

 

Anyone remember this guy?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/6210313586/

Also my doing. :-)

I had been meaning to update the maintenance page. It didn't even have the Groups.io logo. So, I've made it a bit more serious, but it still has a link to the cats.

Thanks,
Mark


Duane
 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 08:15 pm, Steve wrote:


1. Send out an email to all group owners, letting them know of the start time
and estimated duration
If this notification is used, I'd like to have an option to turn it off. I really only use the site and prefer not to get any more email than I already do.

Duane


Ginny T.
 

I would venture that it is a group owner's responsibility to be aware, which means paying attention to the beta and GMF topics. That then allows the owner(s) to warn their members. I've done this since starting a Groups.io group (I now manage several) and there's never been a problem.  Likewise there is a status page (http://status.groups.io/) for problem times, and again I believe that it's a group owner's responsibility to be aware and update their members.

And, my people just love the cats when there is downtime...  many have commented that yes, there is frustration when they find that Groups.io might be down (which, thanks to Mark happens very infrequently), the cats just bring a grin and ease the antsies.

Just my 2 cents....
Ginny


On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 01:55 am, Chris Jones wrote:
Indeed it was, but to a limited audience on beta. Not all groups are represented on beta, or the GMF for that matter.

 
--
Ginny T.  gttemari21@...
========
TemariKai.com


 

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 04:01 pm, Ginny T. wrote:
the cats just bring a grin and ease the antsies.
Absolutely agree! The cats are one of the best features! :-)
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Mark,

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
...
Anyone remember this guy?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/6210313586/

Also my doing. :-)

Astounding. I thought he was new in 2011, long after your time...?
 
I had been meaning to update the maintenance page. It didn't even have the Groups.io logo.

I'd forgotten (haven't seen it in a while). So yes, putting at least the logo on it was needed.
 
So, I've made it a bit more serious, but it still has a link to the cats.

I'm all for cats front and center (says the guy who's employer is named for a literary cat).

Shal


 



On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
...
Anyone remember this guy?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/6210313586/

Also my doing. :-)

Astounding. I thought he was new in 2011, long after your time...?
 

When we moved all the eGroups lists onto the ONElist platform back in January 2000, there were going to be a couple of fairly lengthy downtimes. I figured something funny would help with the inconvenience. So I worked with one of our graphics guys to select that stock photo of a plumber. I subsequently used the same photo for the Bloglines maintenance page, and I think some ex-eGroups engineers used it for their startups as well. Every once in awhile I'll see that photo pop up; I saw him on a billboard in Croatia once. </old man telling stories>


Mark


Bruce Bowman
 

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 04:06 pm, J_Catlady wrote:
Absolutely agree! The cats are one of the best features! :-)
Someone with the J-Catlady handle would say that...   :-)

When I first started with GIO, not that long ago, I was confronted with the cats during a downtime. It did not strike me as whimsy. I thought the site had been hacked.

Not that much later, the site was blacklisted by Norton and AVG. Norton didn't release the blacklist for nearly a week. Panic again.

"Time to grow up" strikes me as harsh...but with 2.2 million members -- each reaching their own conclusions -- it's probably time to get down to business and treat this like a business. I could elaborate on the consequences of doing otherwise, but I don't think I really need to.

My $0.02,
Bruce


 

Duane,

If this notification is used, I'd like to have an option to turn it
off.
If this becomes "something more self-hosted" as Mark suggested then it seems reasonable to add this to the list of "Email when" Notifications in a mod/owner's Subscription page.

Shal


 

> > Can the cat pictures.
>
> That would be unacceptable! >_<
>
> --
> J

I've noticed an interesting (and somewhat frustrating) phenomenon with the large influx of new groups and people transferring over. It seems that we're seeing a number of new members who think they should have whatever they want and are quite willing to stand up and demand that they have things their way. They seldom seem to understand the history and nature of groups.io and don't appear to appreciate the time and efforts of the people who are long term members who have helped the system evolve to what it is today. Added to that, some don't seem to understand that demanding something may not be the best way to convince others of their opinion.

Groups.io is not some big internet company like Yahoo or Google, and there are a lot of relatively long-time members who have a lot of time and efforts invested in beta and groups.io. Having someone suddenly come in and boldly say "Can the cat pictures." rubs many of us the wrong way because it shows that the person commenting has no understanding or respect for the system or it's history. It also shows disrespect to the entire groups.io team.

If this were offering a service for free and someone came to me demanding such things, I would suggest politely that they take their demands and find another provider. (There are more blunt ways of saying that, but I'll leave that to the reader's imagination.) If they have transferred here from other services, I would remind them groups.io never deleted your old group, and you can always go back.

Be mindful that there are a lot of groups.io users who are quite satisfied with the system as it is. Most of them understand that things will develop and improve over time.

If you really need everything your way, perhaps you need to pay the money to become an enterprise group so you can control everything. As for myself, I have two paid groups and feel that what I pay is quite reasonable for the added storage and additional owner abilities. I accept groups.io's unique little quirks and am in no rush to see the individuality of the site be lost. I'd much rather see the development continue that was pushed aside while those people who stayed on other systems to the bitter end were rescued.

If some find this a little too blunt, I'm quite sorry. I've done my best to soften my comments so as to not offend anyone.

Dano

PS - Why are some offended by the cats but not the elephants??


 

Dano,

PS - Why are some offended by the cats but not the elephants??
I think the answer there is undoubtedly "context".

The elephants are seen in the context of the normal product dress ("chrome" as it is sometimes called). So they look to be part of the site.

Whereas the maintenance page was lacking context (even so much as the product logo, apparently) so someone coming upon it cold might well worry whether they arrived at the right place.

I'm not in any rush to see the "serious-ified" maintenance page, but I will be interested to see that it provides better context.

Shal


 

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 07:38 pm, D R Stinson wrote:
Why are some offended by the cats but not the elephants??
Right! That's discrimination! >_<
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 07:38 pm, D R Stinson wrote:
we're seeing a number of new members who think they should have whatever they want and are quite willing to stand up and demand that they have things their way.
Agreed. There was even one comment, which I found particularly annoying, criticizing those who would "hamstring" some alleged "majority" of people wanting to get rid of the option to disable no-email, without the slightest knowledge by the poster of the years-long discussion/debate here about the option and its final resolution by Mark in favor of it. 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu