moderated Default hashtag for groups with mandatory hashtag requirement #suggestion


Drew
 

For those groups that have a mandatory hashtag requirement owners should have the option of setting a default hashtag that would be automatically applied when users do not select one themselves when posting. This would be friendlier and more convenient than forcing users to choose one and rejecting their emails.


David Grimm
 

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of mandatory hashtags?

Dave


 

LOL it certainly does. "You must include a hashtag, but if you don't, no problem, we've got you covered!"😁

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 9:01 AM, David Grimm <engrdave325@...> wrote:
Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of mandatory hashtags?

Dave



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Drew
 

Which purpose in particular are you referring to?

The purpose I intend is to have a default hashtag on those posts for which users elected not to include a hashtag: call it the #no-hashtag hashtag, or #miscellaneous, or #everythingelse, or #unknown, or #other.

A #other hashtag offers message filtering options that are not currently available to users who access the group online. Online users do not have the ability to mute hashtags as the email subscribers do. They aren't able to ignore all the "official" notices and announcements that we post in our group and just see the #other stuff. A default #other hashtag would allow them to do that but would not burden posters with a requirement to always include it in their posts.

Drew

On 03/06/18 12:01, David Grimm wrote:
Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of mandatory hashtags?
Dave


 

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 11:49 am, Drew AF2Z wrote:
on those posts for which users elected not to include a hashtag:
If you want to allow users to elect not to include a hashtag, why set your group to "hashtags required"?  Otherwise you're saying, "Hashtags are required, except when they're not (wink, wink). If you don't include one we'll automatically add one for you that basically says 'no hashtag'."

If you want to encourage members to include a hashtag, you can do that. But to require them and then not require them does not make sense to me and I doubt it will make sense to your group members. Or, it will make sense. They'll quickly realize that hashtags are NOT really required.

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

p.s. Maybe you want to be kind to them, like in restaurants where a tie is required and if somebody doesn't wear one, you lend them one? But that's not an apt analogy because hashtags are supposed to be informative. 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Drew
 

Well, it's your analogy. Since you've determined that it isn't apt I guess we can skip it.

Perhaps some are not familiar with the way hashtags are utilized by those who browse the message archive on the group page...

You click on the "Hashtags" category; then click on a particular hashtag. That will filter your view to only those message posts having the selected hashtag. In this way you can view all the various categories of hashtagged message posts.

You can't however selectively view posts that have no hashtags. Unlike email users, subscribers who view message posts on the group page have no option to mute hashtagged messages and browse the remainder.

The solution is to require that *all* message posts have a hashtag (the "Hashtags Required" option in the group settings). Then every message will be filterable into some hashtag category.

But we don't necessarily want to burden our subscribers by forcing them to invent new hashtags, or make them sort through a list of predefined hashtags, because the things we discuss sometimes do not fall into definite categories. So let's just permit these subscribers to use the hashtag category called #other.

And let's make it even easier for them by not rejecting their emails for lack of a hashtag, or forcing them to choose the #other hashtag from a dropdown list every time they post online. Let's just assume that if the user provides no hashtag the message post is by default of the "other" category and the #other hashtag should be applied automatically.

Therefore: "mandatory" hashtags for all message posts, with an automatically applied "default" hashtag if none is provided by the user.

This feature would make particular sense in a group where use of hashtags is restricted to moderator/owner for various official posts, notices and announcements. Subscriber posts would automatically fall in the #other hashtag category with zero effort on subscribers' part.

Another way to accomplish this goal would be to provide the ability for online users to mute those hashtags they are not interested in wading through. Until we have that capability the default hashtag idea would be easy to implement: hashtags on all message posts, whether provided by moderator, subscriber or automatically by default.

Drew

On 03/06/18 15:08, J_Catlady wrote:
p.s. Maybe you want to be kind to them, like in restaurants where a tie is required and if somebody doesn't wear one, you lend them one? But that's not an apt analogy because hashtags are supposed to be informative.
--
J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Sure, but the question really is your interpretation of the word "required." You want a group to be able to implement "hashtags required" as "all TOPICS must have hashtags" rather than "all USERS must add hashtags to their posts." You want a requirement on topics, not on group members.

With that interpretation - which is a valid one in English but not one usually meant in user interfaces - members can, and probably will, simply skip putting hashtags on their posts completely. You could easily end up with nothing but the hashtag #other on all posts, which could just as easily be named #nohashtag.

I think most people are aware of how hashtags work.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Dave Sergeant
 

On 7 Mar 2018 at 3:53, J_Catlady wrote:

I think most people are aware of how hashtags work.
Until I joined groups.io I had never heard of them. Some groups clearly
use them to great effect. I find them just irritating extra text in the
subject line and would never have my groups set to mandatory hashtags.

Dave

http://davesergeant.com


 

I might call the setting that you're really asking for something like
Add the #other hashtag to all posts without hashtags
which would cause the "Hashtags required" setting to be automatically unchecked, because you can't logically have both - with your setting, there is no actual requirement on users.

I could see doing it but I would be concerned that you'd end up with most posts having the meaningless hashtag #other.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 03:53 am, J_Catlady wrote:
You could easily end up with nothing but the hashtag #other on all posts,
For me, that would be fine, if I implemented this.  At least the users wouldn't need to see the #cal-invite, #cal-notice, or other "official" notices and announcements that Drew would like to mute.  I had asked for the mute to work online quite some time ago, but it wasn't added as an option: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/368371 (Wow, 2 years already!)

Duane


 

I find it extremely irritating to find a #hashtag on my front page every time a calender notice is sent. Wouldn´t it be possible to set this function on default or eliminate it completely?

Victoria

--------

I might call the setting that you're really asking for something like

Add the #other hashtag to all posts without hashtags

which would cause the "Hashtags required" setting to be automatically unchecked, because you can't logically have both - with your setting, there is no actual requirement on users.

I could see doing it but I would be concerned that you'd end up with most posts having the meaningless hashtag #other.
--
J

 


 

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 04:04 am, Duane wrote:
I had asked for the mute to work online quite some time ago, but it wasn't added as an option
I think Duane's would be a much more useful option than the one being proposed. Without Duane's option, and with just implementing the one being proposed, you may end up with 50% of posts having only the #other hashtag. What possible useful filtering can users do in that archive vs. in an archive with 50% of posts having no hashtag at all?

I would go so far as to call the feature useless. Better to allow muting on the web. 
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Victoria,

I find it extremely irritating to find a #hashtag on my front page
every time a calender notice is sent.
I'd support a suggestion to exclude the system-supplied hashtags from the front page listing.

But that's a different topic.

Shal


 

Drew,

Online users do not have the ability to mute hashtags as the email
subscribers do.
They do, but not as conveniently:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Help-Mock-up#Managing-muted-and-followed-hashtags

They aren't able to ignore all the "official" notices and
announcements that we post in our group and just see the #other stuff.
Again, they can, but only in a context that includes messages from all their group subscriptions.

A solution to this would be to have new checkboxes on the Filter (Advanced Search) panel which allows restricting the Topics list to those which have (or have not) been Muted or Followed. Yes, I'm still banging my drum for this feature.

You click on the "Hashtags" category; then click on a particular
hashtag. That will filter your view to only those message posts having
the selected hashtag. In this way you can view all the various
categories of hashtagged message posts.
...
The solution is to require that *all* message posts have a hashtag
(the "Hashtags Required" option in the group settings).
It seems to me that a far simpler and more direct solution would be to have something on the Hashtags page that you can click to get a list of un-tagged messages.

Shal


 

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 12:33 am, Shal Farley wrote:
They do, but not as conveniently:
Shal, 

I nearly answered Drew the same way until I realized that he is talking not about using the site rather than emails to block emails. He is talking about "muting" in the sense of "not seeing" posts in the archive.

I do agree that the muting process from the web is unintuitive and awkward.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Marina
 

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:44 am, Drew AF2Z wrote:


For those groups that have a mandatory hashtag requirement owners should have
the option of setting a default hashtag that would be automatically applied
when users do not select one themselves when posting. This would be friendlier
and more convenient than forcing users to choose one and rejecting their
emails.
I am sorry but this would cause a disaster in my group.
We have a set of mandatory hashtags and we ask (order) members to use them according to the type of message or request they are posting. In this way, members can sort out messages easily. Everything is going smoothly, especially as IO automatically discards messages without hashtags.

Marina


 

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 02:46 am, Marina wrote:
this would cause a disaster in my group.
No worries. Drew was just suggesting this as an option; nobody would have to use it. That said, I don't think it would solve the problem he's concerned about and I doubt it will be implemented anyway.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Jeremy H
 

People seem to have overlooked the word 'option' in Drew's suggestion.

I would say yes, there should be the OPTION to set a default hashtag which will be used group requires a hashtag, but one is not included by the message writer - and perhaps an(other) option to say that in this case, the message will be moderated; but if there isn't a default hashtag, then the message will be rejected, as (AIUI) at present. Or maybe also setting that message without hashtag will be moderated, so one can be added.

Different groups, different owners will have different views on what they want, if there are the options then everyone can be happy by choosing what suits them.