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locked Re: Chat: tied to an event, a message thread, or its own section? #suggestion

Nightowl >8#
 

Catlady wrote in post #8810 on June 12, 2016:>>I simply sense what seems to me a sudden and worrisome getting carried-away-ness and enthusiasm for throwing in the kitchen sink of whatever features come to mind. "Hey, let's add this!" and "Hey, let's add that!" I'm generally a fan of keeping it simple.<<

Same here. One of my biggest worries about the groups.io platform is that it is getting harder for me to understand how all the features work. Mind you, I don't have to really know how they all work, or use them all, but as someone who is encouraging people to leave Yahoo and come here, I feel like I owe it to them to understand it better.

A solution though, which has been mentioned before, I think, is to have a simple instruction page and a advanced instruction page of information to help them along. or simple settings and advanced settings.

But like you, I do worry at times that it's becoming too "connective" and I wouldn't like that. I have nothing to do with Facebook, nor will I ever, because of the way it "connects" everyone. So anything like that being integrated here, I hope will always be an optional thing, and I would opt out.

Brenda


locked Re: ATTENTION MARK: QUESTIONS

Duane
 

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 05:07 pm, Nightowl wrote:


I went in and changed my display name to Nightowl, minus the >8# (Can't
include that, can I?)
I believe you can use most anything on the display name. It's the profile name that can't have any spaces or punctuation. Nothing to lose by trying.

Duane


locked Re: Email address hide-n-seek

 

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 10:55 pm, Nightowl wrote:
However, the one I use on here on that domain, has shown up in exactly the
manner that Shal explained...being used as part of a quoted passage on
groups.io. NO WHERE ELSE.
Looking up Nightowl's email address on Google, I see the results are from the old View Source links. Those are gone now for arbitrary users, and they'll probably disappear from Google eventually, too. Even though there's a "fig leaf" in the quote, it's a MIME multipart quote, and in the HTML portion, the email address does *not* have its domain replaced by an ellipsis, which is how it shows up in search results.

JohnF


locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

Wikipedia has this to say about stemming;

"There are two error measurements in stemming algorithms, overstemming and understemming. Overstemming is an error where two separate inflected words are stemmed to the same root, but should not have been—a false positive. Understemming is an error where two separate inflected words should be stemmed to the same root, but are not—a false negative. Stemming algorithms attempt to minimize each type of error, although reducing one type can lead to increasing the other."

These are precisely (a) and (b) from my complaint before: searching on "disabled" also yields "disability" etc. (false positive), and searching on "wate" produces nothing even if "water" is in the text (false negative). Arguments justifying either one would negate arguments justifying the other - e.g., "we include as much as possible" negates "we don't include partial matches", and vice versa. That jives with the statement above that  "reducing one type can lead to increasing the other."

I wonder what kind of "minimizing each type of error" was done or attempted by the group who developed the software used by Groups.io (I've already forgotten the name of it). They need to do better IMHO!

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: ATTENTION MARK: QUESTIONS

Maria
 

Brenda

When I click on your profile, all I see is your display name, your user name, your profile pic and the groups you are in.

That's all.

Maria


locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

Mark,

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 04:42 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:

it removes things like 'ing' or 'es'

Thinking about this more, I think this also accounts for the approximate matches (which I hate!) I vote for new search software. :-) 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

Oops I reversed those. It matches supercalafragilistic but not supercala. Ignore iPhone typos;)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2016, at 5:06 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Ok. I'm not seeing it but I guess I have to take this one in faith. What about 'r' in 'water' and 'fragilicious' in 'supercalacrsgilicious'? It matches 'water' but not 'wate' and 'supercala' but not 'supercalacragilicious'. The only thing I see in common is the spaces after the actual words but not after the partial strings.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2016, at 4:42 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:11 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
p.s. It's hard to understand what the problem with partial matches could be. Does there need to be a space after the search term in the message??? Why does "meeting" match in a message that says "The meeting is at 2:00" but "meeti" not match?

I am far from an expert in search, but the partial match thing has to do with something called stemming. The software looks to stem words in the query. That means it removes things like 'ing' or 'es'.

Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: ATTENTION MARK: QUESTIONS

Nightowl >8#
 

Thanks Duane,

I went in and changed my display name to Nightowl, minus the >8# (Can't include that, can I?)

I didn't change anything with the short name, it has featheredleader there, but I didn't put it there that I know of.

The reason I thought it was a problem being public, is when you first click on Profile under your avatar in the top right, it first takes you to a page listing your groups, but then when you click the button that says edit profile, it takes you to a page where the first thing you see is the e-mail address you use on here, in it's entirety.

Is that login page you see first, part of the public profile? If it is, that is what I don't want public. My profile page/tab is mostly blank, if that's the only one made public.

Thanks Duane,

Brenda


locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

Ok. I'm not seeing it but I guess I have to take this one in faith. What about 'r' in 'water' and 'fragilicious' in 'supercalacrsgilicious'? It matches 'water' but not 'wate' and 'supercala' but not 'supercalacragilicious'. The only thing I see in common is the spaces after the actual words but not after the partial strings.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2016, at 4:42 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:11 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
p.s. It's hard to understand what the problem with partial matches could be. Does there need to be a space after the search term in the message??? Why does "meeting" match in a message that says "The meeting is at 2:00" but "meeti" not match?

I am far from an expert in search, but the partial match thing has to do with something called stemming. The software looks to stem words in the query. That means it removes things like 'ing' or 'es'.

Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Question: When new version goes live

 

Hi Janice,

The main focus of the new version is mobile. The same code is used when viewing the site on your desktop and on your phone. So making mobile work better necessarily meant changing the code used for the desktop site.

On mobile, you'll see a new navigation bar across the bottom of the screen, which will make getting around the site much easier. Also, buttons have been moved and a bunch of general cleanup has been done.

On desktop, you'll also see the results of the general cleanup. The functionality is the same and the navigation is the same. Things should just look a little nicer.

To do a search now, a dialog box pops up to enter your search terms the first time.

You will know you're using the new version if the navigation bar at the top is blue instead of black.

Hope this helps.

Mark

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 8:49 AM, weebeequilting <weebee.1@...> wrote:

Mark,

Will you be providing a list/description of the changes taking place when you have the new version go public/live?  I would really like to give my members a good idea of the changes you made.  I, myself, have lost track of the things that have changed regarding searching and other features.  Giving us something to share with our members would be very helpful.


Janice B

AZ



locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:11 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
p.s. It's hard to understand what the problem with partial matches could be. Does there need to be a space after the search term in the message??? Why does "meeting" match in a message that says "The meeting is at 2:00" but "meeti" not match?

I am far from an expert in search, but the partial match thing has to do with something called stemming. The software looks to stem words in the query. That means it removes things like 'ing' or 'es'.

Mark 


locked Re: ATTENTION MARK: QUESTIONS

Duane
 

I'm not Mark, but I may be able to help with the first item. Having a Profile name, aka short name, will create a public profile. If you change it, the profile will still be public. Deleting it will remove the profile page/link. The other name can be changed to whatever you want and will show in posts you make.

Duane


locked Re: Editing a post resulting in duplicate messages to e-mail subscribers

Duane
 

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 10:13 am, Brian Vogel wrote:


Lecturing me as though I were a child, had not given these issues lots of
thought, and don't have decades of experience in this realm is just plain
rude.  You don't have to agree with me.  There have been plenty of threads
where people have agreed to disagree, including me.  Don't condescend as it's
utterly unnecessary.
I initially responded to Brian off group, but his reply stated "If it's not something you're willing to say in public then it is best left unsaid." I still don't feel that it really belongs on this group, but apparently Brian feels that unless someone else sees it, it's not valid. No more posts from me about this and I apologize to Mark for this one.

Duane

"Brian,

I didn't take Bob's post as condescending at all. He was making a suggestion that might help us minimize the need for edits. A reminder now and then should do us all some good.

I still have trouble with your "decades of experience" on the internet though. Yes, technically it's been around for just over 2 decades. Many of us have been around computers much longer than that and I, for one, don't appreciate your superior, even condescending, attitude for anyone that doesn't consider themselves a guru like you seem to. Time doesn't necessarily teach anything.

I initially intended to post this online, but didn't feel it was appropriate for the group. I won't bother you again.

Duane"


locked Re: Ability to Bookmark Posts within the Interface

Nightowl >8#
 

Maria, I'm checking out message #10017 even though I have not read everything up to this point yet...here is my response to #10017 you asked for.

HR Tech wrote:>>Yes, you can bookmark via browser and these features are available via browser - not debating that.<<

That's what I do, I have a personal bookmark on both my laptop and desk computer for every group message list, including sign in page on groups.io.

Maria wrote:>>But it doesn't feel the same as doing so within the space of the interface: it’s a drag on mobile, it takes several steps instead of one click, not everyone likes/wants to sign in to their browser, even if they do sign in, not every computer they may use has same browser, they may use different browsers in different places (work vs home),<<

True, I have used both Opera and Firefox to sign in and read groups.io. I don't use mobile, so I'll take your word for it that it's harder to do there.

Maria wrote:>>maybe one simply wants to bookmark something so you can read it later and then remove the bookmark easily with one click (like facebook's "saved" section), maybe you are on mobile and you are skimming threads quickly and you just want to click one button ( as you do the "like button) on the interface so you can find that post/thread later and read it in detail and then remove it from your “saved/bookmarked” list, and again, I think that a “bookmarked" section would go very well with a “favorites” and things you’ve “liked", as well as things you follow if you aren’t an “all messages” person.<<

AH, I get it. You mean instead of writing down a number on a notepad, I could "mark" the post somehow and it would appear in a list of posts I want to reply to or read better later.

That would not be a bad idea, I would probably still use my system of numbers, but it sounds like it would be really convenient for mobile users especially, and anyone else who doesn't want to use message numbers to reply to later.

Great idea!

Brenda


locked Re: Problem with Search Function

 

p.s. You could have an unsophisticated user who's Nobel Prize-winning scientist, and a sophisticated user who's a two-year old. I actually met one (two-year-old) the other day in the Apple store. :-)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Problem with Search Function

 

Guys,

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 01:36 pm, Feathered Leader wrote:

call them unsophisticated

Of course I can't speak for Brian, but I believe he uses "sophisticated" in these discussions as a sort of term of art - as in, "sophisticated user." "Unsophisticated" is not pejorative or an insult. It is a description of someone who is less familiar rather than more familiar with the kind of software (be it forums, email lists, or whatever) under discussion. For example, I am completely "unsophisticated" when it comes to the arcane ways of email, and I would not take offense if someone described me that way. OTOH I am very "sophisticated" when it comes to other kinds of software, nor do I consider that any sort of badge of honor. 

My two cents. See signature line...

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked ATTENTION MARK: QUESTIONS

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark,

First, can I change my display name to Nightowl or Owl? And will that cause my profile to become public? "Feathered" is just weird.... ;) & I don't want a public profile.

Second, Where are we with the Code of Conduct?

I'm curious because I'm trying to get caught up, and was wondering if it has been discussed lately, or if it has been tabled. I'm still awaiting your opinion on the last draft I wrote, on whether to rewrite it. :)

Third, since it may have been lost in the shuffle, are you going to remove the figleafed e-mail from the ellipsed quotes as well?

Fourth, did you ever get my request about moving Owlperch to a Subgroup of MMSanctuary? You asked me to send the request, and I sent it some time back.

I'm sorry I've been so out of touch. Trying to get back on track.

And thank you for all you do, and have done for us.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#


locked Re: Problem with Search Function

Nightowl >8#
 

Brian Vogel wrote:>> Fine, Brenda. You admit that you don't read for content even when the originator of a post points out that you're misinterpreting it and that others in the thread did not read them as hurtful at the time.<<

I did not admit I don't read for content.
Shal stated it was hurtful first.

I'm done with this discussion.

Brenda


locked Re: Editing a post resulting in duplicate messages to e-mail subscribers

Nightowl >8#
 

J_catlady wrote:>>Brenda, My message does quote you quoting Shal.:-)<<

Yep, I found it with John's help. I don't do threads, so he had to show me how.

What I had written was:>> I would prefer that.<< (regarding Shal;s quote), meaning I would prefer a learning curve over a delay, but tmy main reason wasn't included in your reply, so I'm including it here to clarify. :)

Owl wrote:>>I'm really against any sort of hold on a message, because sometimes I send/post one right before I leave the house or shut down, and I wait for it to appear. 10 minutes would be way too long to wait, especially if I need to be somewhere.<<

That is the biggest problem for me with any sort of delay, but I'm fine with the reason for edit being mandatory, no problem with that, sounds great. :)

Glad I cleared that up. :)

Brenda
Nightowl >8#


locked Re: Problem with Search Function

Nightowl >8#
 

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 07:39 am, J_catlady wrote:>>Yes, message numbers are extremely useful. Critical. Why on earth would they go away? This thread has been too long for me get through yet but that's my 'vote'.<<

I was stating I hoped they weren't merged with the search box, because I use the message #box all the time, and my search box is not visible because of my resolution.

I'm glad you agree though, because since I had been unable to read the rest of the messages yet, I wanted to make sure I stated how important they were to me. :)

Thanks Catlady,

Brenda
Nightowl >8#

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