Date   

locked ATTENTION MARK: QUESTIONS

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark,

First, can I change my display name to Nightowl or Owl? And will that cause my profile to become public? "Feathered" is just weird.... ;) & I don't want a public profile.

Second, Where are we with the Code of Conduct?

I'm curious because I'm trying to get caught up, and was wondering if it has been discussed lately, or if it has been tabled. I'm still awaiting your opinion on the last draft I wrote, on whether to rewrite it. :)

Third, since it may have been lost in the shuffle, are you going to remove the figleafed e-mail from the ellipsed quotes as well?

Fourth, did you ever get my request about moving Owlperch to a Subgroup of MMSanctuary? You asked me to send the request, and I sent it some time back.

I'm sorry I've been so out of touch. Trying to get back on track.

And thank you for all you do, and have done for us.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#


locked Re: Problem with Search Function

Nightowl >8#
 

Brian Vogel wrote:>> Fine, Brenda. You admit that you don't read for content even when the originator of a post points out that you're misinterpreting it and that others in the thread did not read them as hurtful at the time.<<

I did not admit I don't read for content.
Shal stated it was hurtful first.

I'm done with this discussion.

Brenda


locked Re: Editing a post resulting in duplicate messages to e-mail subscribers

Nightowl >8#
 

J_catlady wrote:>>Brenda, My message does quote you quoting Shal.:-)<<

Yep, I found it with John's help. I don't do threads, so he had to show me how.

What I had written was:>> I would prefer that.<< (regarding Shal;s quote), meaning I would prefer a learning curve over a delay, but tmy main reason wasn't included in your reply, so I'm including it here to clarify. :)

Owl wrote:>>I'm really against any sort of hold on a message, because sometimes I send/post one right before I leave the house or shut down, and I wait for it to appear. 10 minutes would be way too long to wait, especially if I need to be somewhere.<<

That is the biggest problem for me with any sort of delay, but I'm fine with the reason for edit being mandatory, no problem with that, sounds great. :)

Glad I cleared that up. :)

Brenda
Nightowl >8#


locked Re: Problem with Search Function

Nightowl >8#
 

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 07:39 am, J_catlady wrote:>>Yes, message numbers are extremely useful. Critical. Why on earth would they go away? This thread has been too long for me get through yet but that's my 'vote'.<<

I was stating I hoped they weren't merged with the search box, because I use the message #box all the time, and my search box is not visible because of my resolution.

I'm glad you agree though, because since I had been unable to read the rest of the messages yet, I wanted to make sure I stated how important they were to me. :)

Thanks Catlady,

Brenda
Nightowl >8#


locked Re: Problem with Search Function

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Fine, Brenda.

You admit that you don't read for content even when the originator of a post points out that you're misinterpreting it and that others in the thread did not read them as hurtful at the time.

There is nothing in my statement about sophistication of use of anything should read to a rational person as you'd like to read it.  We were all unsophisticated users of virtually anything you can name at one point and the vast majority of us did not stay that way because we observed the way more skilled users than we did things and tried them out.  When people refuse to do that, well, you can coddle them if you like - I don't.  People who want to learn, and are complete newbies in many things, have been lovingly nursed along by me (and not just by me) and I genuinely enjoy doing that.  This is entirely different from the crowd who simply refuses to consider anything else "but the way I've always done it."

You need to stop taking statements that were not made about you, and could not have been made about you, and treating them as personal insults.  It serves no one well.

-- 

Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Hidden e-mail truncation in ellipses when clicked

Nightowl >8#
 

J_catlady wrote:>>Feathered, That's why you and others (not me) want fig leafs. The emails are showing onlist. That's your whole argument. And they show within the ellipses, too. The ellipses are gust for the purpose of collapsing prior posts when someone top posts and doesn't trim...My point is that (a) it's a lot of work for the bad guys to have to go through all the messages and click on all the ellipses...<<

The bad guys in question would have no problem taking the time or energy to do just that. I've spent a great deal of effort in the last few years to keep this person out of my groups, and groups I'm in because of the lengths he will go to.

So yes, if Mark can eliminate the use of even the figleafed e-mail in the quoted part, even when hiddedn by ellipses, and only use the display or screen name, that would solve a lot of the problem.

Thankfully, I've seen no sign of this person having infiltrated this group, but I am always on guard.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#


locked Re: Problem with Search Function

Nightowl >8#
 

Brian Vogel wrote:>>Brenda, You have elected to jump in to a number of old threads,
clearly without taking the time to read what was in them up to that point.<<
Completely untrue. I sat here from 6:30 p.m. yesterday until 5:00 a.m. early this morning reading every single message up to this point where I replied to yours. I stopped at message #8800 because I needed to get to bed.

My reply has everything to do with how you portrayed people or message numbers as weirdness, and those who used them unsophisticated, and was absolutely in context. You were being hurtful, Shal called you on it, and I agreed, because it was true.

There is no reason or place in this group for people in here to deliberately insult others for the way they choose to use the site, or call them unsophisticated or ignorant for the way they use the site. Mark wants this place to be somewhere where people can speak freely and not be attacked or criticized for their views.

You (Brian) wrote:>>The only way any user becomes more sophisticated is to learn and to observe how more sophisticated users actually do things. Those who absolutely refuse to do so, and they do exist, will get dismissal from me because that's what willful ignorance deserves.<<

That implies that anyone who doesn't do it your way is less sophisticated and ignorant. I am neither, and that was what I did not appreciate, as I stated here:

Owl wrote:>>So I would appreciate it if you would not imply that I'm ignorant because of how I choose to use the site.<<

And I still stand by that above statement. Firmly.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#


locked Re: Problem with Search Function

Nightowl >8#
 

HR Tech wrote:>>This thread may be dated, but I don't think (hope) message numbers are going anywhere. There is a field to search for them in the new search box (#newtest version/ #newmobile). They are very useful. Our archivist uses them often for reference purposes.<<

I'm glad to hear that. I don't use mobile, but I was concerned when it was discussed about merging them into the search box on regular computers, because my resolution doesn't show my search box, only my message number box, so I would have to click into it every time to use it, which would be very very annoying.

I want them to stay as a message # box, and not merge with the search, and having the message #box was my number one request when we first started, so I'm holding to that.

Maria wrote:>>Separately, I couldn't help but notice one of ways you described using them. I'm curious what you would think of the idea presented in message #10017 as it's one of the scenarios I described.<<

I'm not quite up to message #10017 yet, but since I'm checking in on more recent messages to to see if I needed to handle anything about the things I replied to last night, I'll check it out in a few minutes. :)

Brenda


locked Re: Editing a post resulting in duplicate messages to e-mail subscribers

 

Brenda,
My message does quote you quoting Shal.:-)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2016, at 1:02 PM, Feathered Leader <featheredleader@att.net> wrote:

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 05:37 pm, J_catlady wrote:>>On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 05:13 pm, Feathered Leader wrote: Shal wrote:>>TThe simpler, but perhaps more painful, solution is to just live through the learning curve as members learn not to make unnecessary edits. Shal, he also wrote this, and I agree: I've no problem with making the field mandatory.<<

Actually, I never wrote that, I quoted Shal, and I don't see what my response was to the quote in this post...but I can look back and see if I can find it. I know though, I didn't write what is above, I quoted it and replied to it somewhere. :)

Brenda


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Email address hide-n-seek

Nightowl >8#
 

J_catlady wrote:>>But again. It's top posted and the email address in that situation is hidden within ellipses.<<

Ellipses would not stop one of the particular troublemakers, believe me. That person is very very computer savvy, and has caused a great deal of grief in other groups of mine as well as groups I've been in. So I'm still glad that Mark is hiding the e-mail addresses, and would hope they are hid within the ellipses quotes as well.

I have had to track IP addresses in the past to catch this person when they get into groups I'm in and cause problems, and I have a list of screen names and IP addresses two pages long. So I'm always watching out for any group I'm in to prevent problems.

I'm relieved that the fig-leafed e-mail address is being replaced with the display name.
Thanks.

Brenda


locked Re: Email address hide-n-seek

Nightowl >8#
 

J_catlady wrote:>>We're revisiting a discussion long since past, and for which Mark has said he's made a decision on, but why not. I'm game.<<

I agree, but I did read every message in order up to the point I replied, and discovering that the quoting of e-mail addresses made one of my main domain e-mails public, really disturbed me. So I needed to point that out.

This isn't a private group, and anyone could have gotten it from here. fortunately, nothing has happened yet, and thankfully, Mark has changed it to no longer include entire e-mail addresses, so maybe it won't.

I just needed to explain there are more reasons to hide e-mail addresses than just spammers, sometimes there is a need to protect them from other things. And some of these troublemakers are VERY computer savvy, and have harassed other groups I've been in, in the past. So I'm trying to protect Mark's group from that sort of thing as best as I can. :)

Thanks,

Brenda


locked Re: Editing a post resulting in duplicate messages to e-mail subscribers

Nightowl >8#
 

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 05:37 pm, J_catlady wrote:>>On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 05:13 pm, Feathered Leader wrote: Shal wrote:>>TThe simpler, but perhaps more painful, solution is to just live through the learning curve as members learn not to make unnecessary edits. Shal, he also wrote this, and I agree: I've no problem with making the field mandatory.<<

Actually, I never wrote that, I quoted Shal, and I don't see what my response was to the quote in this post...but I can look back and see if I can find it. I know though, I didn't write what is above, I quoted it and replied to it somewhere. :)

Brenda


locked Re: MORE New problems with edit function in test version on web

 

In my case, I try to send out a monthly copy-paste of the group guidelines file (because there is still no scheduling of files except for sending links or manageable snippets of text via the calendar). The formatting is all crazy by the time it gets to the approval queue. Line spacing is insane and all other formatting is gone or gone whacko.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Jennifer Christian <jhchristian@...> wrote:

I just tried to edit a message sent by a member of my WFDRoundtable.  She had included a list that had originally been bulleted or numbered -- an indented list of phrases.  But no punctuation marks (bullets or numbers) were showing.  So I highlighted the list and clicked on the button that is supposed to insert bullets.  It inserted second order bullets (open ones).  I wondered why, went to the top and discovered the top level portion of the message now began with a bullet.  So I tried to undo my edit.  The entire list of items DISAPPEARED entirely -- all the text was gone. I could have easily missed it -- but happened to notice it.  So I canceled out and started over.   Hand-entered hyphens to create fake bullets.

Mark, please do correct these editing problems.

Jennifer



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: MORE New problems with edit function in test version on web

Jennifer Christian
 

I just tried to edit a message sent by a member of my WFDRoundtable.  She had included a list that had originally been bulleted or numbered -- an indented list of phrases.  But no punctuation marks (bullets or numbers) were showing.  So I highlighted the list and clicked on the button that is supposed to insert bullets.  It inserted second order bullets (open ones).  I wondered why, went to the top and discovered the top level portion of the message now began with a bullet.  So I tried to undo my edit.  The entire list of items DISAPPEARED entirely -- all the text was gone. I could have easily missed it -- but happened to notice it.  So I canceled out and started over.   Hand-entered hyphens to create fake bullets.

Mark, please do correct these editing problems.

Jennifer


locked Re: Editing a post resulting in duplicate messages to e-mail subscribers

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 09:43 am, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
One can always have the same effect as you are asking for by simply composing the message and waiting a few minutes prior to proofing it, deciding if I really wish to send what I wrote and then posting it.  We have all had many occasions when we wished we exercised more self control and didn't blast back to others.

 Of course, in an ideal world, everyone would do as you say.  As a general rule I do this pretty consistently.  That being said, I cannot count the number of times that a typo or similar jumps out, almost screaming, the moment that the send button is hit.  Also, having been around the block enough to have amassed enough miles to go to the sun and back, I know full well that what might occur in an ideal world does not occur in the real world.

This feature is not going to be implemented.   It has been implemented in other venues to great success.  This issue has long since been settled.

Lecturing me as though I were a child, had not given these issues lots of thought, and don't have decades of experience in this realm is just plain rude.  You don't have to agree with me.  There have been plenty of threads where people have agreed to disagree, including me.  Don't condescend as it's utterly unnecessary.

--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Editing a post resulting in duplicate messages to e-mail subscribers

Bob Bellizzi
 

Brian,

One can always have the same effect as you are asking for by simply composing the message and waiting a few minutes prior to proofing it, deciding if I really wish to send what I wrote and then posting it.  We have all had many occasions when we wished we exercised more self control and didn't blast back to others.

What you are asking for is within you own power of self control and doesn't need a robotic censor.

Our members are not all the brightest bulbs in the chandelier when it comes to Internet but we pretty well have them trained to think before posting, "do I really want to send this without any changes?"

I've thought about this and actually rewrote it quite a bit, more than once, to try to get my point across.

Bob

Newbie to Beta, Yahoo groups founder since 2000 (Ecircles > Egroups > Yahoo Groups > GroupsIO)



locked Re: Features Request - "Report" feature and "Ignore user" feature #suggestion

 

There's also the visibility issue. On some forums blocking a member makes your profile  invisible to them without making their profile invisible to you. On other forums it does both, which makes things really complicated in some situations.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2016, at 9:36 AM, HR Tech via Groups.io <m.conway11@...> wrote:

I think the suggestion to add a "report" was included with the recent discussion of reply options and the more menu.

The suggestion to mute a user is already on the trello list. See message #7249.

I've been on forums where you can mute users and see the advantage.

I would prefer however, if when this is considered further, if it were an option for a group admin to opt in/out of. I'd opt out for our groups.

I have seen confusion arise from this feature in web forums. When someone has put someone else on mute, yet participates in a thread where that person does too, and then the replies start not making sense and it becomes obvious to everyone who has put who on mute - and instead of being a helpful tool, it ends up being used as a weapon of sorts.

So, great for some forums/groups - not great for others.

Maria



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Features Request - "Report" feature and "Ignore user" feature #suggestion

Maria
 

I think the suggestion to add a "report" was included with the recent discussion of reply options and the more menu.

The suggestion to mute a user is already on the trello list. See message #7249.

I've been on forums where you can mute users and see the advantage.

I would prefer however, if when this is considered further, if it were an option for a group admin to opt in/out of. I'd opt out for our groups.

I have seen confusion arise from this feature in web forums. When someone has put someone else on mute, yet participates in a thread where that person does too, and then the replies start not making sense and it becomes obvious to everyone who has put who on mute - and instead of being a helpful tool, it ends up being used as a weapon of sorts.

So, great for some forums/groups - not great for others.

Maria



locked Re: Features Request - "Report" feature and "Ignore user" feature #suggestion

 

While we're at it, if we're in kitchen-sink feature mode what about friending? 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2016, at 9:32 AM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I like both of those. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2016, at 9:21 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

I've now been witness to my first ugly flame war on a groups.io group, and that has pointed out, in my eyes, the need for both of these features.

If one is reading an attack/flame post that is completely inappropriate and violates group rules and basic civility there should be a "Report" link or button somewhere beneath each message that would allow you to bring it to the immediate attention of the group's owner and moderation team.

Having an "Ignore User" feature, much like a "Mute this thread" feature but that serves as a "Mute this user in threads I view" feature would be invaluable as well.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Features Request - "Report" feature and "Ignore user" feature #suggestion

 

I like both of those. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2016, at 9:21 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

I've now been witness to my first ugly flame war on a groups.io group, and that has pointed out, in my eyes, the need for both of these features.

If one is reading an attack/flame post that is completely inappropriate and violates group rules and basic civility there should be a "Report" link or button somewhere beneath each message that would allow you to bring it to the immediate attention of the group's owner and moderation team.

Having an "Ignore User" feature, much like a "Mute this thread" feature but that serves as a "Mute this user in threads I view" feature would be invaluable as well.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.

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