Date   

locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Maria
 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 03:44 pm, Nightowl wrote:
What Mark has done with where he put it in the preview is working fine, and I'm trying hard to calm down, and trust it.

Yeah, that's not what Brian was referring to. He was making a suggestion for where/how the message # is displayed in the expanded messages and single message view - not the message view (where you see all the messages in chrono order).

Maria


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Nightowl >8#
 

HR Tech wrote:>>I think that's a good idea as well. So you'd see the message # but instead of the link icon you'd see a linkified blue number when you are in expanded message view or single view. Plus you see the message # in the box between the forwards and backwards arrows right above and below. So it's there up to 3 times, actually. Either the way it is now or as Brian suggests works for me.<<

Wherever anyone wants it on the actual single or expanded message view is fine, my concern is if it's by the permalink on single message view, it won't be visible in Messages List view. That is where I absolutely have to see the number in order to scroll. Mark moved it between sender and date/time instead of in the front, which is ok, but there's no permalink on Messages list, so I was afraid it would no longer be in the list view. If it's moved off the list view, I can't use it like I need to.

Am I making sense?

Just trying to calm down, and trust it's going to work like this.

Brenda


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Maria
 

Or sorry, Brian, did you mean the icon+the message # in blue?

That would work for me too.

Maria


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Maria
 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:11 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
As an aside and from an aesthetic viewpoint I still think that "merging" the permalink icon with the message number designation would make more sense and cause the message number to stand out as an entity separate from the time.  This, however, is a real nit to pick. 

I think that's a good idea as well. So you'd see the message # but instead of the link icon you'd see a linkified blue number when you are in expanded message view or single view. Plus you see the message # in the box between the forwards and backwards arrows right above and below. So it's there up to 3 times, actually.

Either the way it is now or as Brian suggests works for me.

Maria


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Nightowl >8#
 

Brian wrote:>>Merging does not imply movement of any sort, but simply makes the message number an integral part of the permalink that's already there, and, thus, sets it off in the blue link color rather than black.<<

Then I'm afraid that it won't show up anymore in the Messages list, Brian, because the permalinks are not seen in the messages list. They are only seen on individual messages. I do not scroll through expanded messages, I scroll through single message chronological list view.

They can be anywhere else when on the single message view, what you suggested it fine, but always be viewable on the list somewhere in the preview location below in single message list view:
*********************************************
Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK! #newdesktop
Brenda, Would you please actually consider what you're responding to before hitting send, or at least ask for clarification? Merging does not imply movement of any
By Brian Vogel · #10171 · 5:30 pm
*********************************************
Having the message number between the sender and the date/time works. I'm concerned that the message # will be removed from list view, that is what I'm worried about, since there are no permalinks shown in list view.

What Mark has done with where he put it in the preview is working fine, and I'm trying hard to calm down, and trust it.

Brenda


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Brenda,

         Would you please actually consider what you're responding to before hitting send, or at least ask for clarification?

         Merging does not imply movement of any sort, but simply makes the message number an integral part of the permalink that's already there, and, thus, sets it off in the blue link color rather than black.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Nightowl >8#
 

Brian Vogel wrote:>>As an aside and from an aesthetic viewpoint I still think that "merging" the permalink icon with the message number designation would make more sense and cause the message number to stand out as an entity separate from the time. This, however, is a real nit to pick.<<

No no, please. Please leave it where it is. If the Message # is not visible in the list version of preview posts single messages swhen I scroll through them, I can't use it. Please don't merge it anywhere, ok? Please leave it visible.

Brenda


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Maria
 

Brenda

I just tried looking at the message view page in bigger resolution on my screen and what happens if you are in a more enlarged view (sorry don't know technical term) is that the message # box looks like it's gone away - but actually if you enlarge your browser window ( not zoom - just click and drag it to make it bigger) it comes back. It's always there.

I'm not sure if this is what you are experiencing but thought I"d make that suggestion in case it helps.

Maria


locked Re: Regarding Closed Threads #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Mark,

          Are closed threads and locked threads the same thing?  I know in groups here moderators have locked various threads (as you well know) the following mini-lock character appears before those threads (and, I'd imagine, individual messages in a locked thread, but I don't use message view):

If closed is another status it might be helpful to use an icon specific to that status.

I also happen to disagree with Brenda about the use of "Cancel."   I find "Discard" used far more frequently than "Cancel" with regard to tossing a draft in the trash along with all changes one might have made to it when the decision not to post has been made.


--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Can Message #'s be listed in a smaller font next to the time of the message #suggestion

Nightowl >8#
 

That's fine, just please always keep them visible somewhere in the subject line/first words of the preview seen in message view, otherwise I can't scroll down and see them at a glance.

I know you're busy, but if you could please fix the size of the desktop Message # box so I can see it again before you quit for the weekend, PLEASE do that? I have a lot still to reply to and now I have to zoom in and out to do anything.

Thank you again so much for understanding my problem.

Brenda


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Nightowl >8#
 

Thank you for putting it back, but PLEASE make it bigger again on desktop? At my normal resolution, the message number box does not appear at all. I have to zoom out to see it, but I can barely read the text at that zoom factor. It looks like there is plenty of room to add it at my normal resolution.

Thank you so much for listening to me. It means so much to me to not have to jump through hoops to read groups.

Brenda


locked Re: New website is live + reply to changes

Maria
 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:22 pm, J_catlady wrote:
Mark, Did you just turn it blue or was I imagining things? :-) 

When you click "private" both the "private" toggle button and the "reply to sender" ( which then appears and removes the "reply to group" option) turn blue.

So you get a written, iconographic, and a visual color cue that you are now in "private" mode PLUS the word "private" in the subject.

It was like that at launch. Likewise in groups where the default reply is to sender the inverse happens and it goes from blue to green ( sender to group) when you click the toggle button.

I've now tested it multiple times in our test groups and I'm loving it.

Maria




locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:25 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
 When you truly have no clue as to why what's happening is happening it takes things to an entirely different plane.  

Maybe so. But from my point of view, "stemming, shtemming" it's all just an excuse! Knowing the reason doesn't make my experience as a frustrated *user* any better.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:20 pm, J_catlady wrote:
My guess is it's equally frustrating to sophisticated and unsophisticated users.

You're probably right.  But sophisticated users, and particularly participants in beta, at least know what's happening, or not happening behind the scenes, which at least allows you to know you're not going mad (kinda, anyway).  When you truly have no clue as to why what's happening is happening it takes things to an entirely different plane.  I remember all of my experiences of being in this position all too well!!
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: New website is live + reply to changes

 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:10 pm, J_catlady wrote:
"private" toggle should be much more obvious. Among the other choices at the bottom, it's the only thing without a color

Mark, Did you just turn it blue or was I imagining things? :-) 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:11 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
cannot recall at the moment as to whether searches when in thread view use both the Title/Subject and message text or not

This has been fixed and it includes matches on both title and message body. No worries there. 

This is one of the reasons I don't use the search function here.

I've started to avoid it for searching beta posts, but unfortunately, there's no other option when group archives are private.

these tons of false positives and false negatives are even more frustrating to unsophisticated (yes, that is the proper term in the software world - and it has nothing to do with general worldliness) users 

My guess is it's equally frustrating to sophisticated and unsophisticated users. It's just a PITA, period!

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 01:33 pm, J_catlady wrote:
There are false positives and false negatives galore. It's nearly impossible to find what you want. If there's any on thing that gives me nightmares (and sincere worries) about the success of this product, and my decision to move my group here, the sub-par search function is it.

And these tons of false positives and false negatives are even more frustrating to unsophisticated (yes, that is the proper term in the software world - and it has nothing to do with general worldliness) users who either haven't a clue that they are getting false positives or missing false negatives or, probably more likely, looking for something they know that they or someone else posted hours to days ago that they cannot get to pull up in a search.

I honestly cannot recall at the moment as to whether searches when in thread view use both the Title/Subject and message text or not.  I seem to recall the first time that I did a search in that view it was only using either the Title/Subject or the message text, but either at the exclusion of the other is not intuitive at all.  I recall being flabbergasted when told that it was either/or.

This is one of the reasons I don't use the search function here.  It's just too darned frustrating and inconsistent in getting back what I'd expect to get back when I know, without a doubt, that the it I'm looking for is out there and where I'm looking.

As an aside and from an aesthetic viewpoint I still think that "merging" the permalink icon with the message number designation would make more sense and cause the message number to stand out as an entity separate from the time.  This, however, is a real nit to pick. 
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Maria
 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:00 pm, Duane wrote:
At the upper right corner of each message, there is a link button that looks like a short piece of chain.

Yes there is! Thank you Duane!

I knew that was there but never put 1+1 together on how I could use that to simplify the url.

I am on a apple products so i rarely right click (control+click) - but will definitely be doing that going forward for this need.

Thank you so much! Much better than listing a message by #.

Maria


locked Re: New website is live + reply to changes

 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 01:03 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
there's now a toggle button at the bottom right of the reply box. Clicking that button toggles the main reply button on the left. This is similar to how several other services handle this issue, and I think is an improvement over what we had before.

Also, for replies to sender, the word 'Private: ' is prepended to the subject line.

I played around with having some way of selecting where your reply goes to before the reply box opens up, but was unhappy with everything I tried.

I give this mixed reviews. Of course I'm still unhappy that the user still has to click "reply" before clicking on "private," which is the same problem I lamented before. So I'm unhappy that you were unhappy with all the possible solutions you came up with (I'd love to hear what they were).

But if you're going to stick with this (and I hope not), I think the "private" toggle should be much more obvious. Among the other choices at the bottom, it's the only thing without a color and is extremely inconspicuous. Is that intentional, to make it more difficult to click "reply to sender"? I think it just makes things more difficult in general.

Also, it's a step in the right direction that the subject includes the word "private," but I don't think that's enough. There have been many, many occasions when despite my typing "Offlist - private" into the title, the recipient still has no idea that the message is private because they ignore titles and are reading the message bodies. I myself have fallen victim to this many times. I eventually began each such message with the sentence "This is a private (offlist) reply." People can throw advice at me to be a more careful reader - in fact, I'm anticipating it, LOL - but that doesn't solve the problem. I think the message body itself should also include something at the top.

Bottom line, baby steps in the right direction, but it doesn't solve what for me is the crux of the problem.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Message Number Box is gone! ACK!

Duane
 

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 12:09 pm, HR Tech wrote:


I think here on @beta is the first time I've started referring to messages by
#, but only because the links to them don't look straightforward on groups.io
when copy/pasted
... i'd prefer something like groups.io/beta/message/#
At the upper right corner of each message, there is a link button that looks like a short piece of chain. On desktop, you can right click it and "copy link location" (or similar) to get a link to it without all the extra stuff that shows in the address bar. Handy for pointing folks to a specific message instead of just a number. For example, your post shows as https://groups.io/g/beta/message/10136

Duane

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