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locked Re: weird, disproportionate sizes of magnifying glass vs. msg# box #suggestion

Maria
 

To clarify: 

maybe not in grey, just maybe the word "search" written out as "hashtags" or "discard" is, so a button with icon +text but not to search within it, just to give it more real estate. 

On Mobile, I just checked on a smaller phone, and take my prev. comment back. Keep as a simple icon on mobile.

Maria 


locked Re: weird, disproportionate sizes of magnifying glass vs. msg# box #suggestion

 

Even if the idea is to open up advanced search options later, I think the box should allow entering of a search term immediately. It is much more important that a search term can be entered fast than a message number. The priorities are reversed. For advanced search, let that be an option. Don't make EVERYONE doing ANY search have to do two clicks just because some subset of people will want the advanced search. That's like making everyone troop into the - I don't know, searching for an analogy here - the restroom stalls if some people only want to wash their hands. :-)

I think the geography/real estate issue should be fixed regardless. Make the box bigger, don't squish it (provide a little space around it), and minimize, at least by comparison, the (rarely used) msg# box. I have no problem with the msg# box being on the first page so that everyone can sleep well. But I do have a problem if it's on the first page allowing immediate entry and search is not.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: weird, disproportionate sizes of magnifying glass vs. msg# box #suggestion

Maria
 

I'm on mobile right now, but recall thinking same thing this morning ( at that was perhaps before additional recent changes -which I've yet to see). 

One thought: add the word "search" in light grey to the icon/box. 

Like when you search your text / email messages on iPhone, or like the FB and Instagram app search box. Even on mobile I think the added word would be ok (even good perhaps but I'm in a 6 plus right now, so not sure about on iPhone 5... I could be wrong) and on desktop it would make that box wider. 

If I recall, the idea of the search opening up a separate box is because there will be advanced search options at some point?

Maria



locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

Continuing this discussion seriously: Yahoo does it correctly. If, for example, you search on the word "metabolize" in a yahoo group and then in Groups.io, with both groups having many messages containing words with that root, then in yahoo, you get only the messages containing the word "metabolize." In Groups.io, you get all messages containing the word "metabolized," and all messages containing the word "metabolic," and all messages containing the word "metabolism," and on and on. If you search on any other one of those words, you always get only exact messages in the yahoo group and all the approximate matches in the Groups.io group. This is true in Groups.io whether or not you put the term in quotes, and whether or not you switch to "relevance" sort in a sinkingly disappointing attempt to at least see the exact matches displayed at the top rather than mixed into all the non-matches.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Feedback on New Mobile Test Version

 

Brenda,

Now someone tell me how to make sure I'm in plain text, and we'll have
this replying process on track again. ;)
If there are only two tools above the message composition window ("Quote Whole Post" and "Add Attachments"), and only two buttons on the left below (Reply button and Discard), then you are in plain text mode.

If in addition you have a link to "Github Flavored Markdown Guide" above (thanks Mark!) and a Preview button below, then you are in Markdown mode.

If you have a panoply of formatting tools above then you are in HTML mode.

Or, you can open your profile, edit it, choose the Profile tab, and scroll down to verify your current "Post Preference" setting.

I wish for a way to see and alter your format choice right from the message composition. There was one before, a drop-menu below and to the right (where the Private button is now). I've suggested adding a format control to the toolbar instead, but I recognize that may be an issue for mobile.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked weird, disproportionate sizes of magnifying glass vs. msg# box #suggestion

 
Edited

I don't know what can be done about this, but I continue to find odd and unintuitive the relative sizes of the search vs. the message# box. The magnifying glass is in the smallest box imaginable, the smallest of everything there (although possibly the most needed and used). The message# box is huge by comparison. This does not jive with the amount of usage each gets, or the convenience that correspondingly would go along with amount of usage - namely, search used constantly, whereas message# is used very rarely, as the responses here to Mark's question about this indicated.

As I'm sure everyone here knows, in the commonly found search box is wide (so that the user can enter the search term) and the icon appears right-justified at the end. This gives the a size, and an amount of real estate, reflecting its relative importance and degree of usage. Here, the tiny magnifying glass is SQUISHED into this small space, almost as an afterthought. Not only is that cognitively "off," but it also makes it harder to click on the search box than the message # box (again, not jiving with actual usage). (I'll pass on the anticipated lectures here on how I just have to "aim right," thanks. This is my reaction as a "naive" user. And physically and actually, it takes more skill [EDIT: effort and tiny extra amount of time] to land in a very small box than a larger one.)

I realize that the magnifying glass in the case of Groups.io's current implementation can't legitimately be compared to a "normal" icon, which is part of the actual search box. Here, it is not part of the actual search box but rather only a means to bring up the search box. So as I said, I don't know what can be done. But this constantly feels distinctly odd to me. The layout is "off."

Perhaps the box could be widened and the icon put in the middle? Perhaps the actual search box could be put back on the first page, rather than having to bring up another page to get it? I hate to beat this to death, but we now have one rarely-used function (message#) with its own, large box on page 1, requiring only one click; vs. a constantly used function (search) with a tiny, squished box looking like an afterthought, and requiring two clicks to get to the actual search.

Should be changed IMO.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Message Header colour no longer changes after reading

John P
 

Hi,

The members of our group really liked the feature that Mark implemented some time ago which had the message header colour change after that message had been read.

This feature appears to have been lost with the new website version (on desktop and mobile) and if it's possible to bring it back, we would really appreciate it.

Regards,

John P



locked Re: Message # / permalink icon display

 

On 16 Jul 2016 at 2:38, Shal Farley wrote:

Mark,

From #10184, but that thread drifted off-topic:
Ok, I linkified the message number. I'm undecided on it. What I don't
like is that, because the link icon is oversized, the underlining when
you hover over the message number is not a straight line. I tried
reducing the size of the link icon but that looks weird in its own way.
https://groups.io/g/beta/message/10184

I don't know if some further tweaking has happened, but in the message
Single View and Expanded View (on Firefox) it looks just fine: the
underscore appears as an unbroken line under both. Looks good.
Weird.

I looked at it with Vivaldi, Opera 12, IE, and Chrome, and the underline is
offset 2 pixels on all except Opera, which is 1 pixel.

IMO, totally not something to worry about. You don't even see unless you
hover over it, and even then it's only for a second before you click it.


--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< Will the information superhighway have any rest stops? >>


locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

ps I can't sleep at night because of this!!:-)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 16, 2016, at 12:17 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

Brenda, No! Mark gets no more time! (*bangs fork on plate*....;)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 16, 2016, at 12:14 PM, Nightowl <featheredleader@att.net> wrote:

catlady wrote:>>Brenda, We're on the same page here. I've been bemoaning this problem for months. I think I will continue to post concrete examples showing specifically why this is annoying and truly problematic, because I'm not sure the seriousness of the issue has gotten through yet. It is a huge detriment to the
product IMO.<<

I agree, search is a really important feature. Bear in mind though, that even Yahoo failed to get it's search fixed to the satisfaction of all users. So I'd give Mark some time and try to be patient, because search is one of the hardest things to get tweaked just right. We are still in Beta, right?

Even Google still has some problems not returning the results I want. ;)

Brenda

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author.

It's dumb to buy smart water.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

Brenda, No! Mark gets no more time! (*bangs fork on plate*....;)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 16, 2016, at 12:14 PM, Nightowl <featheredleader@att.net> wrote:

catlady wrote:>>Brenda, We're on the same page here. I've been bemoaning this problem for months. I think I will continue to post concrete examples showing specifically why this is annoying and truly problematic, because I'm not sure the seriousness of the issue has gotten through yet. It is a huge detriment to the
product IMO.<<

I agree, search is a really important feature. Bear in mind though, that even Yahoo failed to get it's search fixed to the satisfaction of all users. So I'd give Mark some time and try to be patient, because search is one of the hardest things to get tweaked just right. We are still in Beta, right?

Even Google still has some problems not returning the results I want. ;)

Brenda



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: New test/mobile version

Nightowl >8#
 

catlady wrote:>>Brenda, We're on the same page here. I've been bemoaning this problem for months. I think I will continue to post concrete examples showing specifically why this is annoying and truly problematic, because I'm not sure the seriousness of the issue has gotten through yet. It is a huge detriment to the
product IMO.<<

I agree, search is a really important feature. Bear in mind though, that even Yahoo failed to get it's search fixed to the satisfaction of all users. So I'd give Mark some time and try to be patient, because search is one of the hardest things to get tweaked just right. We are still in Beta, right?

Even Google still has some problems not returning the results I want. ;)

Brenda


locked Re: Feedback on New Mobile Test Version

Nightowl >8#
 

Duane wrote:>>If you only want to quote part of it, you can highlight that part before hitting the Reply button and it will copy it in for you.<<

AHAH!! I was doing it wrong. I was hitting reply, highlighting the part I wanted to quote and hitting the balloon after that which wasn't working.

Thank you for the explanation, I had to come back and find this post to see if I had misinterpreted your directions, and I had. ;)

Now someone tell me how to make sure I'm in plain text, and we'll have this replying process on track again. ;)

Brenda


locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

Shal mentions indexing, databases, etc. Smoke and mirrors. (BTW I used to do database design and query optimization so I don't need the lecture, although it was in another life.) Surely there is a way to produce exact matches, including of parts of words. Perhaps post-processing of the initial results? Would be faster than making the user go through those half-baked (euphemism) initial results by hand... It's been a long time and I certainly have no expertise in this any more but it doesn't seem like rocket science. Heck, even yahoo does better (*attempts to goad Mark*...:-)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 16, 2016, at 11:50 AM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

Brenda, We're on the same page here. I've been bemoaning this problem for months. I think I will continue to post concrete examples showing specifically why this is annoying and truly problematic, because I'm not sure the seriousness of the issue has gotten through yet. It is a huge detriment to the product IMO.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 16, 2016, at 11:46 AM, Nightowl <featheredleader@att.net> wrote:

Hehee... Shal, I just wrote about trying for "Exact Matches" right before reading this post. ;)

Guess we're both on the same track here. :)

Brenda

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author.

It's dumb to buy smart water.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

Brenda, We're on the same page here. I've been bemoaning this problem for months. I think I will continue to post concrete examples showing specifically why this is annoying and truly problematic, because I'm not sure the seriousness of the issue has gotten through yet. It is a huge detriment to the product IMO.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 16, 2016, at 11:46 AM, Nightowl <featheredleader@att.net> wrote:

Hehee... Shal, I just wrote about trying for "Exact Matches" right before reading this post. ;)

Guess we're both on the same track here. :)

Brenda



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: New test/mobile version

Nightowl >8#
 

Hehee... Shal, I just wrote about trying for "Exact Matches" right before reading this post. ;)

Guess we're both on the same track here. :)

Brenda


locked Re: New test/mobile version

Nightowl >8#
 

Shal wrote:>>There may be a clever way to solve the problem, possibly by having a meta-index of the partials contained in indexed words, but this is really beyond my depth where database design and use are concerned. Possibly an answer lies in ElasticSearch's impenetrable documentation, but I don't envy Mark's task in trying to prise it out.<<

Shal, what about a criteria that does an "Exact Match" search? That's what sites like the Post Dispatch uses if you don't want parts of words or 'ings or 's.

Brenda


locked Re: New website is live + reply to changes

 

Shal, That's my suggestion. Glad you agree.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 16, 2016, at 10:32 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

J,

Also, it's a step in the right direction that the subject includes the
word "private," but I don't think that's enough. There have been many,
many occasions when despite my typing "Offlist - private" into the
title, the recipient still has no idea that the message is private
because they ignore titles and are reading the message bodies.
I think you're right. Perhaps a note inserted at the top of the body as well, something similar to the edited message notice:

[Private Message Follows]


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Message # / permalink icon display

Nightowl >8#
 

Maria wrote:>>Sorry, obsessing over the visual elements on mobile ;)<<

You shouldn't be sorry for that. You need the visual elements to work for you on mobile, just the same way I need them to work for me on desktop. There's nothing wrong with stating what you need or would work better for you. :)

Brenda


locked Re: New test/mobile version

 

Yep.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 16, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

J,

What about the approximate matches?
This goes with the indexed search mechanism. One way to compensate for the lack of partial matches in the index is to index word stems, and use language-based rules (dictionaries) for transforming the search query into a word stem.

For example, I did a search on the word "disabled" and also got all
messages containing the word "disability."
You would likely have seen results for "disables", "disabling" and any other word with disable as a stem.

Even if I put it in quotation marks, I get back all the other stuff.
Here I agree with you strongly. Even if word stemming is used to improve general results, there ought to be a way for the user to specify "exact matches only".

It is looking to me like quotation marks are now doing one expected thing: when searching for a phrase their use appears to return only results with those words in sequence (I tried "quotation marks" in beta@).

But they don't do the other expected thing of returning only exact word matches (rather than stemmed matches).


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Message # / permalink icon display

Nightowl >8#
 

HR Tech wrote:>>Maybe at some point the top navigation arrows can remove the message # all together as it's both there linkified and at the bottom of the page. In a book you'd have page #'s only once. But maybe there are reasons here why it's needed in both places that I'm not
recognizing.<<

In my view, the main reason that I need it to stay in the middle in Single Message view, is so we can see that it changed. That's my indicator that I actually clicked it right, or that I changed the number.

Frequently, for some reason, after about 5 arrow clicks to change pages in single view, sometimes a click won't change it, it stalls. Then I know it didn't change and click it again.

It doesn't appear in Expanded Messages view, or in Message List.

Thanks, hope that helps. I'm at this point thrilled, and breathing a sigh of relief that the Message Number issue is fixed and working for me again. It's been a really bad week, and this made my weekend to get it fixed. :)

Brenda

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