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locked Re: Thread view?

Nightowl >8#
 

Jeff Powell wrote:>> But a thread view would be helpful, and since the system already show both topics and all the messages, it's effectively just a different sort order plus indentation in the display.<<

Groups.io decided to rename thread view to Topic view, and you can still read all the messages in that topic, I think, in reverse order. I don't do it, so I'm not as sure.

And I use the message numbers to keep track of where I am reading, but I read chronologically, not by topic. And I navigate using those message numbers.

Also, I know it's more work, but because I hate the vertical grey bars for quoting, I highlight the part I want to quote, hit reply, and then add my own >> around the quotes. <<

Brenda


locked Re: Profiles

Nightowl >8#
 

Okay, Mark, weighing in on Profiles. I THINK I understand it now.

Regarding privacy issues: I would like my profile to be completely private, even to owners or moderators, if I am forced to have a profile.

I deliberately left the space of profile name blank, because I didn't want anyone to be able to see it. Initially, it said if you have a profile name, it makes your profile public.

How does that stand now? Can I have a profile name without it linking others to see what groups I'm in or any other things about me? I deliberately leave mine blank, so that anyone seeing it sees nothing but the display name.

But if you are planning to use the profile name to "link" the member to things, can I still leave it blank to protect my privacy, or will it link to other things?

Thanks,

Brenda


locked Re: Updates to Trello

 

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 5:57 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

LOL, and so does the Trello integration. Or not handle the literal HTML tags, however you look at it. The blockquote tag was missing altogether from the text/plain part, and included literally (as code) in the text/HTML part.


This should be fixed now.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Updates to Trello

Beta Integration <beta@...>
 


locked Re: Thread view?

 

Maria,

I have nothing against options but wonder about having a 5th viewing
option - that just feels like too many.
Thy way Y!Groups classic did it would not be a new viewing option, it would be an addendum to Single View (show this one message, and its context). That is, some kind of representation of the hierarchy could be added to that view.

One way I've seen that resolved is to have an icon at the border of
the post indicating which post is being replied to with the screen
name of the person whose post you are replying to...
You probably need to be careful where you put that, and how it is styled, especially if you also include the replied-to person's photo. You also need the message number, as the person alone is likely ambiguous in a thread which has been an ongoing discussion.

That said, I don't really want to add visual clutter by having that information on every message (but the first) in the thread. A possibility is to show it as an item in the More menu. Something like "In reply to name, #number" The item could scroll you back to that message if clicked.

I agree there are ways of showing hierarchy, or the relationship
between posts, without increasing multiple indentations ... Besides
how hard indentation is on mobile, I don't like the way it creates
sub-threads within a thread/topic, fragments conversations a bit
(with replies to replies drifting off or feeling like one on ones)...
In that regard I think the hierarchy is reflecting reality, not creating it. That is, people do go off on tangents and engage in back-and-forth arguments off the main discussion. You can argue that they shouldn't, or that a moderator should step in and break those out into separate topics, but I think there can be advantages if UI reflects the reality of the conversation and not the fiction of a flat time-sequential conversation.

The classic Y!Groups presentation had that advantage: it gave the reader the choice of reading style. Those who prefer reading chronologically could use the next/previous in thread buttons to read in time order, while those who preferred to go depth-first could click in the hierarchy to follow a given sub-thread of the topic.

Note that we have the opportunity to do both: add a "In reply to" item to the More menu in Topic View, and add a hierarchy presentation to Single View. Neither would have much impact on users who don't need or want to use them, and no new modes are required.

The other issue raised is that of notifying those of us who use the
UI mostly about new replies within a thread - I think there are many
intuitive and graphically driven ways to do that.
Right. I don't know if adding a hierarchy display of some kind to Single View would help jeffp's use case; adding the In-Reply-To menu item to Topic View certainly wouldn't.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Wiki images now live

 

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 04:48 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
lots of possibilities for exciting new bugs

Can hardly wait! :-) 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Wiki images now live

 

Hi All,

I just pushed wiki images to the live site. There's a new group setting for automatically resizing uploaded images, and you can track how much space is being used on the Upgrade page.

When editing a wiki page, there's a new button, Insert Image. It brings up a dialog which shows all the images you've uploaded previously, along with buttons to upload new images and create links to images hosted elsewhere. You can also delete images from this dialog. In the future, I'll add a stand alone page to manage your images as well.

Lots of changes, lots of possibilities for exciting new bugs. Please let me know if you see anything weird.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Thread view?

Maria
 

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 11:48 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
For example: you post an idea for a new feature. I reply to you outlining an entirely different UI to get the desired effect. Then Alice (a hypothetical Alice, not any actual Alice here) chimes in with "I like this, but wish it did ... also" without quoting either of our messages.

Now, which of our proposals did Alice like? In the current views there is no easy way to find out.* What a hierarchy representation does is show which message Alice replied to.

Thank you Shal! Great example.

In the back of my head I was thinking "I wonder if Shal has a pic of the way the threading on Y! was before 2013...". I only vaguely remembered it. Thanks for sharing that. I definitely prefer flat threading :)

I am really interested in this thread however, because I think it is really useful to think about what could make the current views better - and this thread raises some great points. I have nothing against options but wonder about having a 5th viewing option - that just feels like too many. Instead I think it would be interesting to see if the points raised could be used to improve the current topics view in potential future revisions?

One need you shared, is to understand who someone replied to if/when that's not clear (either because it's not directly following the post it replies to or because as in your example there is no quoting etc). One way I've seen that resolved is to have an icon at the border of the post indicating which post is being replied to with the screen name of the person whose post you are replying to - if the icon is clicked the post that is being replied to expands out and can then be collapsed back. This works great with finger clicking or mouse clicking.

Likewise, I've seen replies that are not directly subsequent be listed chronologically in the flat view, plus also hidden but represented by a "3 replies" (which expands when clicked/tapped) under the post they are replying to. This way one can read the whole thread in a flat view, or get more granular and see the replies (with only one indentation) to a specific post in the thread. Both options are there within the same view.

Also, tagging someone in a reply with their @ name (if they have one) may in the future help with this as well as alert the poster there is a reply specifically for/to them.

I agree there are ways of showing hierarchy, or the relationship between posts, without increasing multiple indentations (this is being done elsewhere). Besides how hard indentation is on mobile, I don't like the way it creates sub-threads within a thread/topic, fragments conversations a bit (with replies to replies drifting off or feeling like one on ones), and that perhaps it's not even an accurate representation because people would often reply to the latest post or last post they read, even if they mean to reply to the original 1st one with general comments. It gets really messy on UI that don't hide the original text the person is replying to. I am definitely a fan of flat threading :) I like how that helps me gain a speedy overview of the entire conversation and feels cohesive. 

The other issue raised is that of notifying those of us who use the UI mostly about new replies within a thread - I think there are many intuitive and graphically driven ways to do that.

Maria


locked Re: Thread view?

 

Maria,

I find the indented view of replies really rough on the eye and
impossible on mobile.
Indentation isn't the only way to display hierarchy. It is merely a text-based customary way.

Even Y! doesn't really offer that. They show threads as a flat
reading experience - no indentations ...
That's true since the 2013 "neo" redesign. Previously each opened message had its hierarchical context shown below the message.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/10130165595/in/set-72157636272401705

I guess I'm not understanding the need or the benefit ...
For example: you post an idea for a new feature. I reply to you outlining an entirely different UI to get the desired effect. Then Alice (a hypothetical Alice, not any actual Alice here) chimes in with "I like this, but wish it did ... also" without quoting either of our messages.

Now, which of our proposals did Alice like? In the current views there is no easy way to find out.* What a hierarchy representation does is show which message Alice replied to.

This tends to be a fairly common scenario, as message UIs increasingly discourage the inclusion of quotes of prior messages. Notably, even here in Groups.io it requires an explicit Insert action to do so. Meanwhile Alice is blissfully unaware that there's even a question. The reply links are on individual messages (not the thread as a whole), and she chose the one she meant to comment on. The difficulty is that the current UI doesn't tell us which she chose.

*Reading the messages' view sources and comparing Alice's In-Reply-To field against our Message-ID fields is excluded as "not simple" for typical users.

--
Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Thread view?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 07:12 am, J_Catlady wrote:

Why would this be an obstacle to people who don't like it? My impression is that Jeff is suggesting this as another view option.

Exactly. Another option that some users might want. 

--jeffp

 


locked Re: Thread view?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 05:35 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

jeffp,

Right now I can choose only 2 message views in the UI:
  • Messages View - which shows all the messages in time order
  • Topics View - which shows the first message and gives an indication of how many replies there are
There is also the other variations of Messages View: Expanded View, Polls View (a filter for messages with a Poll in them).

Polls view isn't generally useful in the groups I use, and the expanded view is basically unusable (to me) as things are so spread out I can't get enough context to have a clue.


 What is missing is a thread view, that shows the first message and below
 that - indented - the replies to it. There might be multiple levels as
 well, of course, with replies to replies.

Apart from the lack of hierarchy, that's what you get when you click on a topic from Topics view.

Actually you can't see the date of any replies either. I started this thread, but to check if there are new replies to it I have to to to the message itself and view it, then scroll down. There is nothing in the views (except expanded, which I really don't like) that gives message dates. And, as you agree, the hierarchy is missing as well.


 What a thread view allows is for user to have a better handle on what
 they have and haven't read. It's much easier to note if some new reply
 to a thread has been sent since you last looked. (Right now, if you
 don't remember the message count in that thread, you're out of luck and
 have to go look.)

I don't get that. I would expect the criticism would be the opposite: that hierarchy view makes it harder to find the new posts (because they may be hanging off the various branches of the conversation, not gathered at the bottom or top).

So maybe I don't have the right picture of what you're asking for.

No, you have the right picture, you're probably just thinking about a message with dozens or hundreds of replies. I'm thinking about a message with 5 or 10. In that case the hierarchy is manageable and if I can just see the first few words of each message (as currently displayed) but arranged in the hierarchical fashion - possibly expandable, as someone else suggested below - that would help my brain to scan these groups more easily.  Perhaps I am a mutant.

--jeffp

 


locked Re: Updates to Trello

 

Mark,

[Beta] New card "Our HTML to plain text conversion code needs to be smarter and handle the
tag, to ensure readable plain text digests.
" was added to list "Bugs".


[Beta] The red label "Bug" was added to the card "Our HTML to plain text conversion code needs to be smarter and handle the

tag, to ensure readable plain text digests.
".
 

LOL, and so does the Trello integration. Or not handle the literal HTML tags, however you look at it. The blockquote tag was missing altogether from the text/plain part, and included literally (as code) in the text/HTML part.

Shal


locked Updates to Trello

Beta Integration <beta@...>
 


locked Re: No indentation of quoted material in plain text #suggestion

 

Hi David,

Yes, that's an issue. I'm not too worried about people who want to view the plain text parts of emails, because I think that's a vanishingly small number of people. But  agree there could be issues with plain text digests. I will create a bug report for it.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 7:28 PM, David Andrews <jdabud@...> wrote:

 Just a clarification. Here I'm talking about replies from the web site with both 'Force HTML Emails' and 'Plain Text Only' unchecked. The message goes out with two alternatives: a plain text and an HTML version of the mail. When the reply has reply text interleaved with the original text quoted, the HTML alternative goes out as expected (with the original material indented and the new material not indented). However the plain text alternative has no indentation. The plain text alternative should be a plain text approximation of the HTML version and, therefore, should have similar indentation. Most people don't see the plain text version in ordinary emails unless their email client is set to show only the plain text alternative. I guess that the plain text digest has similar indentation problems.

David.

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 04:20 pm, J_Catlady wrote:

Slight amendment: I just discovered that on my iPhone, the text in the email does appear indented; it's only in email in safari on my laptop that the symbols appear instead (no indentation). Second, even in a group for which HTML has been disabled, you can indent text - any text, not just text selected before hitting "reply" - by using the '>' symbols. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu




locked Re: Site updates #changelog

 

Thanks for the birthday wishes! And it's our twins' 3rd birthday today, so lots of birthday-ing going on around here.

Mark

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 12:16 PM, HR Tech via Groups.io <m.conway11@...> wrote:

Happy Birthday!




locked Re: Thread view?

Maria
 

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 07:12 am, J_Catlady wrote:
And if I select topics view, it's hard to immediately get a glimpse of what messages are in each topic.

Yes, I can relate to that need. Also can relate to the feeling of wanting to know if there is "new" activity within a thread that I've not read. If this does get further consideration, my suggestion would be to have a way to expand one thread (while in topics view) with one click ( like we do the admin menu) and then for that button to perhaps collapse the thread, or collapse any others that you've opened that way back to return to the overall topics view.

Ideally it would drop out/down in a flat/linear way so that you aren't seeing messages gradually drifting to the right hand side - which makes it impossible on mobile. Similar to the way you expand a thread now in Y! or the way Muut does it, or the way you see replies to comments on FB or discourse.

Just some ideas.

Maria


locked Re: print out a

Duane
 

I use the Export Table button to get a csv file, save to my pc with csv extension, then open it with Open Office Calc (spreadsheet) to print. If it was a really small one, you could print the screen.

Duane


locked print out a

 

We'd like to be able to print out a database. Will someone give me a hint as to how?

Thanks!!


locked Re: Thread view?

 

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 04:58 am, HR Tech wrote:
There is a whole movement to modernize message boards and I think getting rid of the indented view that you get with a traditional thread view is part of that.

Why would this be an obstacle to people who don't like it? My impression is that Jeff is suggesting this as another view option.

I know nothing about "modernizing" message boards or movements to do so. I do know that if I select message view, it's hard to have a global view of threads (now known as "topics," for Jeff's benefit - since I think he wasn't around when the name change was discussed). And if I select topics view, it's hard to immediately get a glimpse of what messages are in each topic.

His suggestion seems to provide a way to get a better immediate handle on both.  

I don't think it will happen. But FWIW, I think it would be helpful. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: viewing digest on a phone #changelog

Frances
 

I tested both formats on my iPhone 6 with iOS 10.0.1.  Both full featured and plain digest can be zoomed in (enlarged) on my iPhone   Perhaps someone else can test with an Android note 4 (Samsung Galaxy Note 4?). 

Or perhaps it is a setting on your device.

https://support.google.com/accessibility/android/answer/6006949?hl=en

Frances

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