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locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 02:02 pm, Jeff Powell wrote:
I do want it as a group setting

Big sigh of relief. ;) 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: two different sets of trailing links on messages?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

FYI, I've just opened a bug about this on the groups.io zendesk site. This really looks like a bug of some kind. I can't make it happen, and so far I have no idea how it did so in the first place.

 


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 01:42 pm, J_catlady wrote:
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 01:38 pm, J_catlady wrote:
I'm not sure that's what he was asking for, though. 

I think (or thought) he was asking for this on an individual-message basis, not as a group setting. 
--
J

Actually, I do want it as a group setting, a la Yahoo's current options.

And given it would be a group setting - if it happens at all - your groups can avoid that setting, so no change to how your groups behave.

--jeffp



locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 01:38 pm, J_catlady wrote:
I'm not sure that's what he was asking for, though. 

I think (or thought) he was asking for this on an individual-message basis, not as a group setting. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:15 pm, Jeff Powell wrote:
do note that (at least as I see messages in gmail) the sender's email address can be seen when you're reading what they've sent you.

Yes, we've discussed this literally ad nauseum here (note: linguists now say you can use "literally" to mean "not literally" LOL). It's been the subject of a possible "anonymous groups" feature as well as the (impotent) "fig-leafing" of email addresses posted within a message.

Still, making a specific option to reply to both is more encouragement to reply offlist than I'd personally like to see. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:51 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
what jeffp is asking for is a new Reply To setting for the group

I realize that was your interpretation, Shal, and I'd have no problem with that. I'm not sure that's what he was asking for, though. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

That's the gist of what I'd like to see. There may well be technical issues with it that Mark would understand far better than I do, but yes, that would be very useful to our group.

Thanks!


locked two different sets of trailing links on messages?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

Hello again all. This time I have a mystery. We continue to test, hoping to transfer our group as early as sometime in the coming week if all goes well. But I just found this.


One person posted a test message to the group, and the following is a screen capture of the various links appearing after her post. She tells me she posted this from inside the groups.io UI, not via email:

That looked all wrong, so I tried several things, and others have replied to her post as well. Those posts all have trailing links that look like this:

You'll note the large number of differences, including the complete absence of reply to sender and reply to group links.

Both screenshots are taken on my computer, from my gmail account, showing what I got as these messages were posted.

Does anyone know why the first is so different? I am going to have a hard time explaining to our users that they can click on the Reply To Sender link sometimes, but not all of the time. That seems really wrong.

Help?

--jeffp



locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

jeffp,

Yahoo has some option to do that - a group where no one can see anyone
else's email address - but there are, I think, a lot of complications
that arise from that setup, and no group I have ever worked with has
decided to try it.
I run a Yahoo Group like that. But hiding one's email and IP addresses is optional to the member, not group-wide. And yes, that being Yahoo, there are a couple of needless complications. Fortunately none of that has relevance here in Groups.io (except as a cautionary tale).

In any case, however, you as the moderator are able to select from
"reply to group only", "reply to send only", "reply to group and
sender", "reply to moderators only" and "no replies allowed" if my
suggest is adopted. (I hope I have that list of choices right... I think
I do.)
The group's Reply To option currently allows you to select from "Group", "Sender", and "Moderator". So as I understand it you propose adding "Group and Sender" to that drop-list.

Shal
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GroupManagersForum/info


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

J,

If this is implemented I would *strongly* prefer a disable button ...
That's easy. Unless I've misunderstood, what jeffp is asking for is a new Reply To setting for the group. All you need do is not choose that setting.

and/or that it only be possible only via email replies (no 'group and
individual' button on the site).
I haven't thought through how this would reflect in the Reply on site.

I think the simplest implementation would be to change the "Reply to Group" button to "Reply to Group and Sender" only if the group's Reply To option is set that way - leaving all else the same. (Leaving aside button size considerations in the mobile interface.) Nothing would change for groups that don't chose the proposed setting.

In a group using the proposed setting a member would still have the Private button to choose a reply to sender only, but would lack a way to send a reply to the group only. That's probably ok.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

Also, if I can, I'd just like to thank you all. One thing about groups.io... if you ask a question, you will get an answer. Unlike Y!G.


Thank you!


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

I would have no problems at all if it was disabled, but do note that (at least as I see messages in gmail) the sender's email address can be seen when you're reading what they've sent you. Thus, a determined poster can reply to just the sender with a copy & paste operation.  Now, to be honest, most people don't do that, and some UI's - notably on cell phones (I'm looking at you, Apple) - can make the address displayed up there very confusing. But getting around this is possible in any case unless all email senders addresses are completely masked.

Yahoo has some option to do that - a group where no one can see anyone else's email address - but there are, I think, a lot of complications that arise from that setup, and no group I have ever worked with has decided to try it.

In any case, however, you as the moderator are able to select from "reply to group only", "reply to send only", "reply to group and sender", "reply to moderators only" and "no replies allowed" if my suggest is adopted. (I hope I have that list of choices right... I think I do.) If that was the case, you simply wouldn't choose "reply to group and sender" for your group and you'd be fine, as things are. Or am I missing something?

--jeffp



locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

I get what Jeff is saying. The 'reply all' from email (at least, gmail) still goes only to the group. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2016, at 12:11 PM, Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...> wrote:

Actually, Ro, that won't do what I want, and I just looked at it in my test group.

I want the person getting a post from the group to be able to hit "reply" or "reply-all" in their email software to get a message addressed back to both the group and the poster of the message they are replying to.

If I do what you suggest, they can only reply to the group and the links at the bottom of the message won't include the "Reply to Sender" option, which - right now - is the only easy way to accomplish that when the default for the group is to reply back to the entire group.

I hope that makes sense. It's disturbingly difficult to discuss this sort of stuff in writing.  ;)

--jeffp


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

Actually, Ro, that won't do what I want, and I just looked at it in my test group.

I want the person getting a post from the group to be able to hit "reply" or "reply-all" in their email software to get a message addressed back to both the group and the poster of the message they are replying to.

If I do what you suggest, they can only reply to the group and the links at the bottom of the message won't include the "Reply to Sender" option, which - right now - is the only easy way to accomplish that when the default for the group is to reply back to the entire group.

I hope that makes sense. It's disturbingly difficult to discuss this sort of stuff in writing.  ;)

--jeffp


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

Scratch that, the 'private' button already allows them to surmount moderation in that respect. So no additional problems there. I would just prefer to discourage, rather than explicitly encourage further, offlist replies.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2016, at 12:00 PM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

It should also not be available to members on moderation, since it provides a way to surmount the moderation. I would vote against this feature, bottom line.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2016, at 11:58 AM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

Is it true that in yahoo, this can only be done via email? Either way, I would want a way to disable it. We have enough problems in my group due to offlist communication (including the propagation of bad medical advice not subject to scrutiny by the group) without providing an easy way to do more of it (I.e., encourage it). If this is implemented I would *strongly* prefer a disable button and/or that it only be possible only via email replies (no 'group and individual' button on the site).

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

jeffp,

But it would make our lives easier if replying to both the sender and
the group was possible.
I'd support "Group and Sender" in a group's Reply To option.

I can also see it being useful in groups where most members are on digest or read by web (special notices / no email).

Shal

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

It should also not be available to members on moderation, since it provides a way to surmount the moderation. I would vote against this feature, bottom line.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2016, at 11:58 AM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

Is it true that in yahoo, this can only be done via email? Either way, I would want a way to disable it. We have enough problems in my group due to offlist communication (including the propagation of bad medical advice not subject to scrutiny by the group) without providing an easy way to do more of it (I.e., encourage it). If this is implemented I would *strongly* prefer a disable button and/or that it only be possible only via email replies (no 'group and individual' button on the site).

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

jeffp,

But it would make our lives easier if replying to both the sender and
the group was possible.
I'd support "Group and Sender" in a group's Reply To option.

I can also see it being useful in groups where most members are on digest or read by web (special notices / no email).

Shal

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

Is it true that in yahoo, this can only be done via email? Either way, I would want a way to disable it. We have enough problems in my group due to offlist communication (including the propagation of bad medical advice not subject to scrutiny by the group) without providing an easy way to do more of it (I.e., encourage it). If this is implemented I would *strongly* prefer a disable button and/or that it only be possible only via email replies (no 'group and individual' button on the site).

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

jeffp,

But it would make our lives easier if replying to both the sender and
the group was possible.
I'd support "Group and Sender" in a group's Reply To option.

I can also see it being useful in groups where most members are on digest or read by web (special notices / no email).

Shal



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

 

jeffp,

But it would make our lives easier if replying to both the sender and
the group was possible.
I'd support "Group and Sender" in a group's Reply To option.

I can also see it being useful in groups where most members are on digest or read by web (special notices / no email).

Shal


locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

Ro
 

Have you tried checking the "reply to group" and then unchecking the box "remove other reply options".   I believe doing this allows optional reply choices.  


Ro

with Sally and Silk waiting at their feed dishes, and Handy, Feliz &  Police Kitty patrolling in the Great Beyond.





From: beta@groups.io <beta@groups.io> on behalf of Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 10:42 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Reply to both Group and Sender?
 

Hi All. At the risk of opening old wounds - I did some searching in the archive before posting this - I want to ask a question.

Y!G gives the option of replying to both the group and to the sender, rather than just to one or the other. I moderate a group with 1750 members who have been trained in that for one specific reason: it allows them to edit the TO line and thus easily change their reply destination.

Over on Yahoo - where things are a bit inconsistent, I freely admit - and using any of a zillion email clients, we've seen all kinds of behaviors around replies. Some software respects reply-to headers, some doesn't, etc. I am sure you all know that. What the option to reply to both the group and the sender allows is that edit of the TO line, and yet it preserves the included message itself for context (unlike the reply to sender link at the bottom of a message, which doesn't save such a thing, and might not work at all if someone's mailto handling is messed up).

So... again, at the risk of asking a hot question: has there been any consideration of allowing replies to go back to both the group and the sender as an option? If not, may I suggest that as a feature enhancement request?

For the moment, we're configuring for reply to the group. That's the more natural default in our case, and if the option of replying to both is off the table, we'll live. But it would make our lives easier if replying to both the sender and the group was possible.

Thanks for considering it, and I hope I haven't hit a nerve. There were a lot of messages on topics related to this and I couldn't read them all. Given they go back well into 2015, I'm not even sure which ones are really relevant based on the subject lines.

--jeffp


locked Reply to both Group and Sender?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

Hi All. At the risk of opening old wounds - I did some searching in the archive before posting this - I want to ask a question.

Y!G gives the option of replying to both the group and to the sender, rather than just to one or the other. I moderate a group with 1750 members who have been trained in that for one specific reason: it allows them to edit the TO line and thus easily change their reply destination.

Over on Yahoo - where things are a bit inconsistent, I freely admit - and using any of a zillion email clients, we've seen all kinds of behaviors around replies. Some software respects reply-to headers, some doesn't, etc. I am sure you all know that. What the option to reply to both the group and the sender allows is that edit of the TO line, and yet it preserves the included message itself for context (unlike the reply to sender link at the bottom of a message, which doesn't save such a thing, and might not work at all if someone's mailto handling is messed up).

So... again, at the risk of asking a hot question: has there been any consideration of allowing replies to go back to both the group and the sender as an option? If not, may I suggest that as a feature enhancement request?

For the moment, we're configuring for reply to the group. That's the more natural default in our case, and if the option of replying to both is off the table, we'll live. But it would make our lives easier if replying to both the sender and the group was possible.

Thanks for considering it, and I hope I haven't hit a nerve. There were a lot of messages on topics related to this and I couldn't read them all. Given they go back well into 2015, I'm not even sure which ones are really relevant based on the subject lines.

--jeffp

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