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locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

Trying again, just to be sure that Mark sees and understands my issue. Maybe - as another user has asked - there is some other solution, but this is the one that Y!G uses, and it works for us over there.

Problem: you have a group that has the reply set to the group. Fine.  You have a thread going there, and someone wants to reply (via email, not in the groups.io UI) just to the sender of a message, not to the entire group.

How do they do that?

If the message was in plain text, doing so is not easy at all. There may be no obvious place to copy & paste an email address from in your email client.

If the message was in HTML format, there is a reply to sender link, but that doesn't include the message body for context.

The possible solution I am suggesting for this is to allow moderators to have the default reply be set to "group and sender", so the recipient of an email can simply edit the TO line as needed to get the destination right.

I sure hope that makes sense.

--jeffp



locked unexpected interactions between the wiki and subgroups

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

(It was suggested that I post this here. I originally posted it in the GroupManagersForum, but the different uses of those groups isn't entirely clear to me. GMF seems to be more about knowing how groups currently work, right? Beta is more about suggestions? In any case, I am following through on that suggestion from a helpful member of GMF.)

Hi All,

As some of you might recall, I looked into subgroups as part of our coming migration, hoping to solve some issues with hot topics and other things in our neighborhood group. Alas they aren't in a state where they help with that for us, because we can't move messages (and threads) between groups easily and keep replies from showing up in the wrong place. So, unless that changes, subgroups are a no go for us.

Then I discussed an issue about deleting a subgroup, where Mark told me that deleting a subgroup does not free up the subgroup name for reuse unless you specifically ask for them to free it for you. OK. Such is life.

Then we decided to delete the subgroup I'd created as a test. It was confusing our beta testers about what address to send to, among other things.

It turns out that subgroup deletion has impacts, let me tell you.

I'd created a bunch of pages in the wiki - our group FAQ - and crosslinked them in quite a few places. Imagine my surprise when all those links broke.

Looking at them, I discovered that the URLs in use for the links were all invalid because they'd been created while the subgroup existed, but now that it didn't exist anymore the URLs I needed are different. Example:

    I suggest everyone think LONG and HARD about creating any subgroups if you have links anywhere in your system - in messages or the wiki, at least - because if you do, your first subgroup will break all those links. And if you delete all the subgroups you create, you'll have to fix all those links again. I learned this the hard way. Only about 20 links to fix in my case, that I know of, so far. YMMV.

    I suggest to the developers that there is something wrong with the existing subgroup scheme in this regard. No one should expect the links in their wiki pages to break if they create their first subgroup, or delete their last one. Similarly with links between messages in the message archive. There has to be a better way for subgroups to work.

    And while I am on this rant - sorry! - this wiki is very limiting. No images? Real URLs for internal links rather than the much simpler page name schemes used by most wikis? Without wanting to make even more work for myself, is there anything that can be done about that?

    --jeffp


    locked Re: Reply to both Group and Sender?

    Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
     

    On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 10:06 pm, J_catlady wrote:
    On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 09:53 pm, Jeff Powell wrote:
    edit their TO lines when they want to direct a message back to just the OP, rather than the entire group. As things stand, we can't do that here on groups.io. 

    It seems what you want is for your members to be able to reply to the individual *rather* than to the group, via email - since you say "just to the OP." We can do that on Groups.io via the web, using the "Private" button.

    But this was my question before, which I posed to Shal: is there really no way here to "reply to individual" via email? Perhaps I didn't understand the answer. In any case, that seems to be a lack, regardless of the "both" setting Jeff is suggesting. And if that lack is fixed (assuming it exists), then is there still a need for the "both" setting?

     As far as I can tell you, no, there is no way to reply to just the sender via email.

    And please note that email has a zillion standards that are supposed to be followed (more or less) by the various email programs. You can't add a button to an email - at least, not a plain text email - to allow someone to reply differently. But even if you did, that won't change the behavior of the reply and reply-all functions provided by the email software. Those read certain headers in the message to determine what "Reply" means, so if you want to change what those headers say, that has to be a group configuration setting, and that is what we're talking about here. Giving groups the option to change the content of the Reply-To header to have a third option: Group, Sender, Both.

    I wish it was simpler, but it really isn't. Mark can't change the way gmail, and MS live mail (or whatever they are calling it this week), and Yahoo mail, and Apple mail, and a zillion other programs work. All he can do is change the headers that get sent with messages, and let those programs do what they will with the results.

    --jeffp



    locked Re: Force HTML Emails

    ro-esp
     

    It's not that I see "issues", but I don't see the point either.

    One thing I absolutely hate about googlegroups is that I received messages, edited the plain text to forward only relevant info, and then found that the entire previous message was forwarded.

    groetjes, Ronaldo


    locked Re: Force HTML Emails

    Maria
     

    I think this is great because it removes a massive headache for our group. The way it was before without this checkbox made it so that every email (without an image or text that had been bolded etc) sent via mac mail (even when preferences were set to rich text), iphone mail, or ipad, translated in to a plain text email for those who get individual emails -  regardless of whether they were set to see html emails in their mail client. Which meant the individual email didn't have all the lovely reply options, and the links that were included were written out in unattractive links that were linkified but spelled out. This also meant that in a group where the default is "reply to group" if someone receives a plain text email (an enormous amount will be sent from iphones and will otherwise register as plain text on the receiving end regardless of whether the recipient's mail client is set to view HTML), they have no other option but to go to the interface to reply privately - and vice versa if set to reply to sender. The only way before to "fix" this was for a moderator to go in and edit the message, save, then approve. That then made it in to an HTML message.

    I think this checkbox is great. It resolves all of the above and will provide recipients of individual emails in our groups with a much better experience.

    Maria


    locked Re: Force HTML Emails

    Laurence Taylor
     

    Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

    I just added a checkbox in group settings called Force HTML Emails. It's
    off by default. If checked, all plain text emails will be converted to HTML
    emails. Also, the option for plain text digests will be removed. If you
    have existing subscribers who are on plain text digest and you check the
    box, their subscriptions will be converted to full digests.

    Let me know if you see any issues.
    I'm not sure why one would want to do this. (I can see why a _recipient_
    might want to).

    If this is checked, what will someone who reads in plain text see?

    --
    rgds
    LAurence
    <><
    ...
    #11: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's tagline.


    locked Re: Color palette on database columns

     

    Jean,

    Maybe we didn't notice before, because we do not use hashtags. We
    dislike this color palette intensely. We are an artist group, and color
    is important to us. These color choices are way too dark and the white
    text against some of these colors is difficult to read. Even if black
    text were an option, which it apparently isn't, it would be hard to
    read. This palette may be workable for hashtags, but isn't for column
    colors for our group.
    Good point. I don't think the two use cases (hashtags and columns) are at all comparable. Spot color is one thing, large area backgrounds another.

    I'd recommend showing a single character ("A") in the small color patch of each Column description in the Edit Table page, and on each square in the picker. This would show whether each choice has White or Black text. That is, I think the artist(s) who designs the palette should also choose the text color for each background.

    Perhaps Mark would consider soliciting your help in designing a better set of choices for the database.
    https://groups.io/g/beta/message/9262


    Shal
    https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
    https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


    locked Re: Force HTML Emails

     

    Mark,

    I just added a checkbox in group settings called Force HTML Emails.
    I think that would have been better as a subscription option, with the default being off. A group moderator could still make the default be on for their group by way of the Default Sub Settings tab.


    Shal
    https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
    https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


    locked Re: Create Permissions For Database Export #suggestion

     

    Maria,

    I was wondering if it would be possible ( and useful) to have
    permissions for database export. It seems to me that any member can
    export the database.
    If they can see it they can copy it, one way or another.

    There may be some deterrent value, but I see relatively little utility in adding this control.


    Shal
    https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
    https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


    locked Create Permissions For Database Export #suggestion

    Maria
     

    I was wondering if it would be possible ( and useful) to have permissions for database export. It seems to me that any member can export the database.

    There may be databases that moderators don't want members to be able to export, so having a setting that limits that option to owners or moderators would be useful.

    Thank you!

    Maria



    locked Force HTML Emails

     

    Hi All,

    I just added a checkbox in group settings called Force HTML Emails. It's off by default. If checked, all plain text emails will be converted to HTML emails. Also, the option for plain text digests will be removed. If you have existing subscribers who are on plain text digest and you check the box, their subscriptions will be converted to full digests.

    Let me know if you see any issues.

    Thanks,
    Mark


    locked Re: Database updates: images, column hiding, colors

     

    Mark,

    I *love* the ability to select which columns to view. This will be extremely helpful in our group. I haven't yet tried the images. I also like the colors. (But I'm not an artist.;)
    --
    J

    Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

    I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


    locked Database updates: images, column hiding, colors

     

    Hi All,

    There's a new database column type, Image, which, one would guess correctly, lets you upload an image. There's also a new group setting for specifying whether database images are resized and if so, to what max dimension. Space used by these images is tracked like files and photos.

    Also, when viewing a database table, you can now hide columns. There's a new row of buttons at the bottom of the database page, one for each column. Clicking a button toggles whether the associated column is shown. I've struggled trying to figure out a good way to deal with showing tables with many rows, and this seems reasonable. But I'm open to suggestions as well.

    Finally, as you've noticed, I updated the column colors to match the expanded hashtag color set. 

    These are not-small changes; I'd appreciate feedback on what should be changed/improved or if you find any bugs.

    Thanks!
    Mark


    locked Re: Color palette on database columns

     

    I agree that it works better for hashtags than database columns. But you can just go back to 'no color' for the columns and the text reverts to black with the normal white background.

    Sent from my iPhone

    On Sep 8, 2016, at 10:45 AM, Jean Bennett via Groups.io <jcbennett@...> wrote:

    Maybe we didn't notice before, because we do not use hashtags. We dislike this color palette intensely. We are an artist group, and color is important to us. These color choices are way too dark and the white text against some of these colors is difficult to read. Even if black text were an option, which it apparently isn't, it would be hard to read. This palette may be workable for hashtags, but isn't for column colors for our group. 

    --
    J

    Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

    I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


    locked Re: Color palette on database columns

    Jean Bennett
     

    Maybe we didn't notice before, because we do not use hashtags. We dislike this color palette intensely. We are an artist group, and color is important to us. These color choices are way too dark and the white text against some of these colors is difficult to read. Even if black text were an option, which it apparently isn't, it would be hard to read. This palette may be workable for hashtags, but isn't for column colors for our group. 


    locked when paging through a database, remember column-scrolling position #suggestion

     

    When you page through a database, often you're looking at a specific column. However, in paging through, the scroll position for columns you're looking at (left-right) is not remembered, and you're taken  back to the leftmost column for each new page, requiring you to change that again each time. It would be convenient if the scroll position could be kept constant as you page through.
    --
    J

    Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

    I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


    locked Re: Color palette on database columns

     

    I just checked, and it looks like the same as the hash tag color palette change.

    (Mark: I will add that I love the colors, but I would also love it if some of the database issues and bugs be given higher priority. I'll give them, or at least one of them I'm thinking about, a bump in the email support messages I've sent. Thanks.)
    --
    J

    Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

    I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


    locked Re: Color palette on database columns

     

    Hold on, I'm not yet caffeinated. I remembered the color change in regards to hash tags, not database columns. But I assume it's the same, or a similar, change...?
    --
    J

    Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

    I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


    locked Re: Color palette on database columns

     

    On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 04:45 am, Jean Bennett wrote:
    Is our only option to go in and manually change all the column colors to try and find something more readable and pleasing to the eye?

    Probably, yes. That's what I did. I think the change was worth it, because the new color palette has better colors and more variety. I think you'll be happier in the long run with the new colors.
    --
    J

    Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

    I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


    locked Color palette on database columns

    Jean Bennett
     

    This seems to be intentional rather than a bug, so I am reporting it here.  There has been a recent change to provide a color palette for choosing column colors when setting up a database.  In the process, the colors on existing databases were changed to colors different from ones originally chosen and that are way too dark.  The dark background color makes white text difficult to read and the juxtaposition of these replacement colors has created some jarring combinations in our databases.

    Is our only option to go in and manually change all the column colors to try and find something more readable and pleasing to the eye?


    Jean

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