Date   

locked Re: member approval, confirmation, welcome letter, and viewing content - sequence

 

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 11:07 am, Jeff Powell wrote:
This should probably just be sent as a bug to support@groups.io.

I sent it here because I think it needs a redesign. I'm all over Mark with support messages on this, trust me. The member has not been able to get in for three days. It's a wonder she has not givenup. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked messages hanging

 

I think there's another misbehaving search node this morning. Messages are hanging within "send."
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked member confirmation - a possible alternative #suggestion

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

I've been reading another thread or two here with questions about how the member approval works - confirmation messages and all. It occurs to me that there might be another way to do this, one that might be more user friendly to both potential new group members and moderators.

What if there was an optional form for a potential new group member to fill out?

They click the "Join This Group" button and, if the moderators/owners want it, instead of sending out a confirmation email, the member is taken straight to a form, where they are presented with questions and ways to answer them. Those questions and answer areas (or types) would be defined by the mods/owners, and each group would have it's own set of questions.

In our case, the questions would be "What is your name?" and "What street do you live on, or what neighborhood do you live in?" Both answers would be free form text input fields, and both would be required. One can imagine additional question types that might have a set of radio buttons to given an answer, perhaps. But nothing much more complicated than that.

Whatever they answer, assuming they fill in or select all the required fields, the data is bundled up in an email and sent off to the moderators so they can approve the membership request, or not.

No emails sent to the potential new member... just data collection and then it's sent off to the decision makers.

The potential user gets a one-stop visit to apply for membership, and the moderators don't have to wade through additional emails, or wait for them to arrive, or remember which ones haven't arrived, or have them go missing somewhere. Seems like a win for all involved.

Thoughts?

--jeffp


locked Re: member approval, confirmation, welcome letter, and viewing content - sequence

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 11:27 pm, J_Catlady wrote:

I've been having some trouble tonight with yet another new member who can't seem to find the confirmation email despite it being sent and re-sent several times, and checking her spam. I don't know what's going on there, but meanwhile there are some other issues.

I finally tested with an unconfirmed (virgin) email address, having it apply to my test group. I approved the membership before having the email address confirm. I then went back to the browser and email in which the email address applied. It had received the welcome message before confirming; it also was able to view all the group contents (messages, etc.), despite it being a private group. That was alarming and interesting, since my understanding has always been that this content is unavailable to members until they confirm.

I then went back out of that browser and back in, and presto-chango, the content access was gone, and there was a banner reading "you haven't confirmed" and a link to "send confirmation email."

Questions: (1) why was this account able to see the group content once, before confirming? (2) I didn't test this (although I wanted to, I forgot, and now the email is confirmed and I'd have to find that old unconfirm link to do so): Does the welcome message go out immediately after approval but before confirmation, or is it not sent until confirmation? If it goes out immediately after approval, that seems to be violating the idea that an unconfirmed email should not be able to see group content. (3) Why does it happen, every so often, that someone absolutely can't confirm their membership? I've got it going on now in two separate groups. I send and re-send the confirmation email, I tell them to check their spam, and nothing. I've been afraid in these cases to send an invitation on top of it, because the few times I've done that, things get even more bolixed up, most likely because the member has already been approved, So the only recourse seems to be to wait until the person figures out how to confirm and just hope they don't give up entirely.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

This should probably just be sent as a bug to support@groups.io. The stuff I highlighted above might be a security hole. There could be session ID reuse, cookie issues, or something similar. If you had a situation in which someone who was not yet a member could view the contents of the message archive, that's a security problem.

--jeffp



locked Re: member approval, confirmation, welcome letter, and viewing content - sequence

 

add

(5) a log entry for "confirmed their email address"
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: member approval, confirmation, welcome letter, and viewing content - sequence

 

I've also been able to verify that the welcome message goes out before the person has confirmed. In fact, according to timestamps, it goes out even before the confirmation email is first sent. I hope this can be tweaked:

(1) no welcome message before confirmation message;

(2) no welcome message before actual confirmation;

(3) no access to group contents before confirmation (as occurs now, once only);

(4) strong wishlist: a new subject line for each re-send, to enable people to easily find the confirmation message. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: member approval, confirmation, welcome letter, and viewing content - sequence

 

I meant threading, not concatenation.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: member approval, confirmation, welcome letter, and viewing content - sequence

 

The person has not given up but cannot find the fifth (or so) confirmation email I've sent her. Meanwhile, I ran some tests. I think the problem is that if the person misses the first confirmation email, they will continue to miss re-sends because of the concatenation (the subsequent ones appear to have no message body and appears way down in their inbox if any time has elapsed in between). I wonder if it's possible for subsequent confirmation emails to contain some unique symbol in their subject line (for example, a numeral indicating the number of times sent), to avoid the concatenation. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Bulk Actions Menu #suggestion

Shal Farley
 

Mark,

Just as Bulk Remove is useful for those of us who manage our users by way of external (Excel) lists, so too would be a Bulk option to apply operations from the Actions menu.

If one or more of the supplied email addresses is not a member of the group those email addresses should be reported as an error, but the rest should be processed (similar to a syntax error in the email address).

Shal


locked Bulk Direct Add in subgroups #suggestion

Shal Farley
 

Mark,

Just as Bulk Remove is useful for those of us who manage our users by way of external (Excel) lists, so to would be a Bulk option to the Direct Add page in subgroups.

If one or more of the supplied email addresses is not a member of the primary group those email addresses should be reported as an error, but the rest should be processed (similar to a syntax error in the email address).

Shal


locked member approval, confirmation, welcome letter, and viewing content - sequence

 

I've been having some trouble tonight with yet another new member who can't seem to find the confirmation email despite it being sent and re-sent several times, and checking her spam. I don't know what's going on there, but meanwhile there are some other issues.

I finally tested with an unconfirmed (virgin) email address, having it apply to my test group. I approved the membership before having the email address confirm. I then went back to the browser and email in which the email address applied. It had received the welcome message before confirming; it also was able to view all the group contents (messages, etc.), despite it being a private group. That was alarming and interesting, since my understanding has always been that this content is unavailable to members until they confirm.

I then went back out of that browser and back in, and presto-chango, the content access was gone, and there was a banner reading "you haven't confirmed" and a link to "send confirmation email."

Questions: (1) why was this account able to see the group content once, before confirming? (2) I didn't test this (although I wanted to, I forgot, and now the email is confirmed and I'd have to find that old unconfirm link to do so): Does the welcome message go out immediately after approval but before confirmation, or is it not sent until confirmation? If it goes out immediately after approval, that seems to be violating the idea that an unconfirmed email should not be able to see group content. (3) Why does it happen, every so often, that someone absolutely can't confirm their membership? I've got it going on now in two separate groups. I send and re-send the confirmation email, I tell them to check their spam, and nothing. I've been afraid in these cases to send an invitation on top of it, because the few times I've done that, things get even more bolixed up, most likely because the member has already been approved, So the only recourse seems to be to wait until the person figures out how to confirm and just hope they don't give up entirely.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: make drop-downs in activity logs alphabetical, add "delivery failure" entry #suggestion

 

Along with that request, it would be nice to have a "confirmed membership" entry. Failing this, you need to continually check the unconfirmed members to see if they've (magically) changed to confirmed.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked make drop-downs in activity logs alphabetical, add "delivery failure" entry #suggestion

 

I was looking for other examples of delivery failure this morning (I wanted to see, for example, if it was happening more often for aol members).  I've noticed before that the dropdowns for the group activity logs are not in alpha order. This was ok when there were only a few things to pick from, but at this point the order is unwieldly and hard to search through. Also, I was hoping to find "message delivery failed" (or words to that effect) as a searchable item, but it does not seem to be there. Adding it would be helpful, perhaps in the group's member activity log.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: questions

 

This comes up whenever there's a delivery failure, it seems. I think it's non-specific, at least according to Mark the last time I asked him about it. Is the member using an aol email address? Here's an example for a member with an aol email address in my group:

Message
[Feline_SCL] Mirtazapine and Aggression
Attempted
Aug 28
Response
451 4.3.2 Internal error reading data

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: questions

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

It might help if you told us what you were trying to do and where. Were you in the groups.io site itself, or your email software? Were you attempting to view a message? Post a message? Etc. Without more context it's pretty hard to know, unless someone here has already seen that error before.


locked Re: make notification settings dependent on permissions #suggestion #bug

 

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 07:38 am, HR Tech wrote:
 there still should be the option to opt out of a notification even if you have the permission to act on it as an admin.

Of course. The ability to select having a notification should be dependent on the relevant permission. Having the permission would of course not make the notification required.

I think the whole set of notifications vis-a-vis permissions needs to be thought through. I gave only a couple of the most obvious examples. 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked questions

 

What does this mean and how do i fix it?

Message
[NewEnglandWax] Vision & Verse Pick Up
Attempted
Sep 19
Response
451 4.3.2 Internal error reading data


thanks,

Deb Claffey


locked Re: make notification settings dependent on permissions #suggestion #bug

Maria
 

Agreed. If the moderator doesn't have permission to approve members or message etc, then the option to receive notifications for these should at minimum be unchecked as a default. There should be a relationship between permissions and notifications perhaps, but there still should be the option to opt out of a notification even if you have the permission to act on it as an admin.

Maria


locked Site Updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week (today was mostly spent in bed with a bad cold):

  • BUGFIX: Image alignment in the wiki wasn't working.
  • BUGFIX: digest and nomail flags were being ignored with direct adds.
  • BUGFIX: Font size and text alignment weren't working in the wiki.
  • BUGFIX: Escape Trello card descriptions because they may have tags in them.
  • BUGFIX: Pagination in group search was broken.
  • BUGFIX: More intelligent about generating plain text parts of HTML messages, for plain text digests mainly.
  • NEW: Wiki images.
  • BUGFIX: Editing a pending message that had attachments resulted in a blank page.
  • BUGFIX: The icon we were using for empty photo albums was a little larger than the photos used for other albums. Adjusted.
  • BUGFIX: Editing an existing link in the HTML editor, the Insert Link button would be disabled inappropriately.
  • CHANGE: In the +help text, if the group is an announcement group, don't say members can post.
  • BUGFIX: Repeated 'groups.io' on From line in new topic page.

Have a good weekend everybody. Zzzzz.

Mark


locked Re: make notification settings dependent on permissions #suggestion #bug

 

I think (but haven't checked) that the scope of the issue is beyond just the owner setting a moderator up that way (because why would they?) I think that any moderator can set their notifications to whatever subset they want of the full set of notifications, regardless of their permissions - which seems wrong.

J

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:41 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I've noticed that it's possible for me, as owner, to set up a moderator to get - and this is just one example - notifications for pending members, but not permission to approve pending members. Same thing for messages. That means, they will get "approval needed" notices and be unable to grant the approvals.

I think the issue of allowing notifications dependent on permission settings needs to be thought through in general and redesigned to some extent.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

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