Date   

locked Re: option to disable email aliases #suggestion

 

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 01:41 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
In my opinon no one in your group (member or management) should be aware if a member uses an alias address. That's an artifact of how they send messages and shouldn't be exposed to the group.

And I just as thoroughly *disagree* with THIS. At least the alias is available to view by moderators, on the member's page within the group. I think it should go one step further and allow moderator override.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: option to disable email aliases #suggestion

 

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:37 pm, HR Tech wrote:
I understand if it's there to allow @mac to = @icloud or @gogglemail to = @gmail or in those instances when janesmith@ = jane.smith in gmail... but would really like to either disable that or have very very clear language about what services require aliases, limit it to those, and explain how this works (send only). And limit allowable aliases to the variants of one email.

100% agree with this. If it's not possible to limit this automatically, at *least* provide a moderator override, such as now exists for Display Name within a group. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Chat now live for beta groups

 

Hi All,

I just pushed the Chat feature to production. You'll only see it if your group has the beta flag enabled. If your group does not have that flag enabled and you'd like it, email me off-list the name of your group and I'll set it up for you.

Here's how it works: There's a new dropdown in Group Settings to determine who can create chats. Chats can be open or closed. To create a new chat, go to the Chats page and click New Chat. To join an existing chat, go to the Chats page and click an open chat. 

You can view a chat without joining it. If you wish to participate, or to receive notices when there are unread messages, you need to join it.

If you have joined a chat and wish to leave it, type in /leave in the message window.

Messages are markdown and you can use emojis, as listed here: http://www.webpagefx.com/tools/emoji-cheat-sheet/

Things yet to be implemented: real-time unread notifications (the badge next to Chats in the sidebar and bolding the chat names in the dropdown list of chats you're subscribed to), ability to add images, ability to add a chat when you create a new calendar event (and have it automatically close after the event), viewing the complete history of an open chat by scrolling up.

It's a lot of new code, so there are bound to be bugs. Please let me know if you find any. Also please let me know if you have any UI suggestions or suggestions for changes in the flow of the UI. Also, suggestions for a new icon would be appreciated (if you don't like the teletype that's there now, that is).


Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: option to disable email aliases #suggestion

 

Maria,

I've also expressed concern about this in the past here. Since we
approve every single member and want to make sure we are 100% clear
about what email address people are posting from, the alias is
confusing. For us owners/mods and for members.
In my opinon no one in your group (member or management) should be aware if a member uses an alias address. That's an artifact of how they send messages and shouldn't be exposed to the group.

One problem, and I think it is a bug or oversight, is that when an Alias Email address is used, the message distributed to group members (and the View Source on site) appears to reveal the Alias address. That should not be, in my opinion: the message should have the From replaced by the Subscribed address.

It kind-of has to be that way to serve its intended purpose: otherwise other members might try to reply to the Alias address, which in the intended use case is send-only.

It does worry me -,which is why I mentioned it before. Really don't
like the idea that perhaps it could be used to send from email
accounts that aren't the subscribers? Like maybe someone's assistant
or similar?
It shouldn't. That is, I don't think you should even know if a member used an Alias: hold the member responsible for content posted under his/her name.

Any way to make it accept only the equivalent but variation of the
subscribers email?
I think that would require Groups.io to know too much about various email services, or else handle support requests from affected users when they can't confirm their email address because of it.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: option to disable email aliases #suggestion

Maria
 

I've also expressed concern about this in the past here.  Since we approve every single member and want to make sure we are 100% clear about what email address people are posting from, the alias is confusing. For us owners/mods and for members. 

I understand if it's there to allow @mac to = @icloud or @gogglemail to = @gmail or in those instances when janesmith@ = jane.smith in gmail... but would really like to either disable that or have very very clear language about what services require aliases, limit it to those, and explain how this works (send only). And limit allowable aliases to the variants of one email.

It does worry me -,which is why I mentioned it before. Really don't like the idea that perhaps it could be used to send from email accounts that aren't the subscribers? Like maybe someone's assistant or similar? Any way to make it accept only the equivalent but variation of the subscribers email? 

Maria 


locked Re: option to disable email aliases #suggestion

 

sorry, I meant "what I'd already mentioned on GMF"

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:15 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:11 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
From my understanding, it needs to be that way. For certain email services it is the only way a user can confirm their email address and post from it.

I had meant to duplicate about this what I'd already mentioned on beta. I would hope the alias could be allowed in those cases only. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: option to disable email aliases #suggestion

 

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:11 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
From my understanding, it needs to be that way. For certain email services it is the only way a user can confirm their email address and post from it.

I had meant to duplicate about this what I'd already mentioned on beta. I would hope the alias could be allowed in those cases only. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: option to disable email aliases #suggestion

 

J,

I realize that multiple emails, and/or accounts, etc. is on the todo
list. But I would really appreciate an option to disable the current
"email alias" feature, which is currently under a member's control
with no override by the moderator.
From my understanding, it needs to be that way. For certain email services it is the only way a user can confirm their email address and post from it.

Members who want to use more than one address for posting can simply
create more than one subscription to the group.
Those with the affected email services can't accomplish that. They can't succeed at confirming their subscription address without the Alias feature.

I think your issues with members misunderstanding the feature would be better addressed by a better name and/or description for the feature.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked option to disable email aliases #suggestion

 

Mark,

I realize that multiple emails, and/or accounts, etc. is on the todo list. But I would really appreciate an option to disable the current "email alias" feature, which is currently under a member's control with no override by the moderator. Members seem to think that the alias is a true "alias" and that they can use it to send AND receive messages. One particular member is not receiving messages from the group owner (me), because they evidently think that they can just log onto their alias an ignore the email address they're signed up under. They also evidently didn't get the welcome message (which contains important group posting guidelines), because they are not (evidently) going to their regular address. Just the alias one. This is causing real communication problems now, with me cc'ing one address or the other of theirs in attempts to communicate.

My understanding (mostly gleaned from Shal, although he is not responsible for any errors in my misunderstanding) was that this feature was set up mostly for the purpose of solving the purely technical problem where in some clients the address is preceded by the prefix "mail.". It was also created partly to enable someone to post from a different email address when the other one is inconvenient - such as when they're logged on from work, or a different device, or whatever. But members are using it, or trying to use it, as a real "alias" or alternate email for any purpose, and it is causing problems.

I would at least like the ability, as the moderator, to undo an email alias that's not a technical one or that's causing these kinds of problems in the group. But what I'd prefer is the ability to disable email aliases altogether in my group. Members who want to use more than one address for posting can simply create more than one subscription to the group. That way, they can have whatever combination they want of sending and receiving (the accounts they don't want to receive mail under they can set to "no email" or "special notices").

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Site Updates #changelog

 

Hi J,

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:38 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

This bug is either still there or has reappeared. In full force. ;) Message summaries showing up this morning as 

Please send links to support.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: Site Updates #changelog

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 09:36 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
CHANGE: When generating a thread summary, prioritize using the HTML part of a message instead of the plain text part. This fixes an issue with buggy iPad Yahoo Mail.

Hi Mark,

This bug is either still there or has reappeared. In full force. ;) Message summaries showing up this morning as 

blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left 

etc.

 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: New profile stuff

 

It would only show up to the logged-on member. I don't see the problem.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: New profile stuff

 

Another problem with showing the email address is that spammers like to come along and harvest them. Yes, you can figleaf them, but so many are from gmail.com, yahoo.com, aol.com, outlook.com, that they could guess many of them.

I like the idea of putting the "@profile" name along with the display name, if the user has set up a profile (and it's not an anonymous group). If the user has not created a profile, then just don't put anything but the display name, and the user will have to understand that there could be display name conflicts, accidental or malicious. (Any user who doesn't like this can create a profile.)

JohnF


locked Re: New profile stuff

 

I too am frequently signed in with two different email addresses in different browsers, similar to how I use other services. I think being able to see the email address (or other identifying account information) is common (perhaps even the standard?) and would be very important to me. Of course I don't mind if the Display Name per group is added to that, but I would consider the overall account info crucial.
J

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:47 AM, Linda <lindon@thetravelzine.com> wrote:

Hi Mark,
I keep each of my three browsers signed-in with a different email address, all with the same display name. If you have to choose one or the other, the email address would be my preference. Is it a big issue, no, not if I'm the only one doing this. I've been managing just fine. The info is just a click away.

Mark wrote:
The header's only one line, so I can't stack things. I'm worried that if I put the email address next to the display name it'd be too long. One question, how many people regularly log into Groups.io using different accounts, and those accounts have identical display names? In other words, is this a big issue?

Thanks,
Linda


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: New profile stuff

Linda
 

Hi Mark,
I keep each of my three browsers signed-in with a different email address, all with the same display name. If you have to choose one or the other, the email address would be my preference. Is it a big issue, no, not if I'm the only one doing this. I've been managing just fine. The info is just a click away.

Mark wrote:
The header's only one line, so I can't stack things. I'm worried that if I put the email address next to the display name it'd be too long. One question, how many people regularly log into Groups.io using different accounts, and those accounts have identical display names? In other words, is this a big issue?

Thanks,
Linda


locked Site Updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • CHANGE: Added new /unsub page to unsubscribe, and changed the List-Unsubscribe email header to point to it instead of the mailto: link. This is because iOS 10's email program now prominently displays an unsubscribe header above all emails that have a List-Unsubscribe header with mailto link.
  • CHANGE: Prevent changing display names in subgroups. Other profile tweaks.
  • BUGFIX: Fixes for slack syncing caused by their API changes.
  • BUGFIX: When creating a wiki page and you submit it without a title or body, it would forget your format setting.
  • CHANGE: When generating a thread summary, prioritize using the HTML part of a message instead of the plain text part. This fixes an issue with buggy iPad Yahoo Mail.
  • CHANGE: Profile -> Account in the header.
  • CHANGE: Alphabetized activity actions in drop down.
  • CHANGE: Various and sundry changes to the new profile system.
  • CHANGE: Tweaks to message footers to display # messages in threads.
  • CHANGE: When posting a new topic and it requires approval, redirect to the messages page anyways.
  • CHANGE: Display Name -> Name, Profile -> Main Profile/Group Profile

Also, work on the enterprise version, and the upcoming chat feature.

Have a good weekend everybody!

Mark


locked Re: New profile stuff

 

Maria,

Just googling this and it does seem that Y! aliases are "unique" as
are the ID's.
Correct, account IDs and aliases come from the same name pool, and are unique system wide at Yahoo.

(an alias on a y! group is the display name used when someone doesn't
want their ID to be displayed).
Correct again. Mostly used because the ID maps 1:1 to a Yahoo Mail user name - know the ID and you know the email address. Creating an Alias is the way to keep your Yahoo Mail address somewhat private.

The other case where an Alias is used is where the account's sign-in ID is an email address - as is the case with ymail.com, rocketmail.com, and the various ISP-sponsored accounts. In those cases Yahoo Groups had made the creation of an Alias mandatory to join a group, because one's ID/Alias was freely used (displayed to others) in the classic UI (and is still shown in the "neo" UI if the user has not established a Display Name for his/her membership in a group).

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: New profile stuff

Maria
 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 04:34 pm, HR Tech wrote:
I don't know what the deal is with respect to aliases in Y!

Just googling this and it does seem that Y! aliases are "unique" as are the ID's. From what i am reading on Y!'s pages... Maybe that's why i've not come across 2 people with the same yahoo! alias ( an alias on a y! group is the display name used when someone doesn't want their ID to be displayed).

Maybe others have different info about this. It's not super easy to find documentation about it but i did find one link that called then "unique" whereas their nicknames are not.

Maria



locked Re: New profile stuff

Maria
 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 03:49 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I still need to think about whether display names should be unique per group. Are there any other examples of services forcing display names to be unique? I couldn't think of any.

I don't know what the deal is with respect to aliases in Y! or google groups. But I was thinking about twitter and while display names are not unique the @username is. Thing is that you always see the @username too in posts - not just the display name. What i find tricky here is like JohnF pointed out, if someone changes their display name to match an existing one, you wouldn't really be able to distinguish one person from another on the web interface. 

On facebook for sure there are a ton of people with same names, but for each one you can hover and see their profile pop up, which in turn helps you distinguish who is who. In fact I have 2 friends with the same name and when i see them in my feed, the only way i can tell who is who is their profile pic and if i hover over the profile and see where they live.

Here we have a situation where you can have an identical display name as someone else, and you can set your profile to private or not have one...and the username is essentially not visible to others... (?) So maybe if you don't make them unique there are some other ways in which we can make sure that people aren't confused by same display names and no one can impersonate someone else.

Maybe it goes back to being forced to have a username now that they can be private and having both display name and user name displayed in posts?

But how would that work with email only folks....? hmm.

Maria


locked Re: navigation issue ("return to directory")

Maria
 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 03:02 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I've removed that button.

Any way to keep it when you get to a profile VIA the directory? 

Just thinking it would be helpful - especially on mobile.

Maria

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