Date   

moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 11:43 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.
I'm using FF, so I think this may be the biggy.  I've never seen the problem, but always go through the Drafts option on the left menu to get to one.

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Thanks, Mark, for nailing this down. That’s exactly what happens. I do use Firefox.

 I’ll try to remember to keep two separate windows open on groups.io until you come up with a fix. Not using the back arrow would be really hard. 


On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


Hi All,

I've spent a bunch of time researching this and trying to reproduce it. Here is what I believe is the bug:

- Using Firefox (it's not reproducible in Chrome or Safari), start a reply to a message.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Go to the drafts page and click the draft to continue editing it.
- Make a change in the draft.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Hit the back button to return to the draft.
- See that your change is no longer there.

I don't know if or when I'll be able to figure out how to fix it. In the meantime, you have a couple options: 

- Don't use Firefox
- Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.

Thanks,
Mark


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Hi All,

I've spent a bunch of time researching this and trying to reproduce it. Here is what I believe is the bug:

- Using Firefox (it's not reproducible in Chrome or Safari), start a reply to a message.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Go to the drafts page and click the draft to continue editing it.
- Make a change in the draft.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Hit the back button to return to the draft.
- See that your change is no longer there.

I don't know if or when I'll be able to figure out how to fix it. In the meantime, you have a couple options: 

- Don't use Firefox
- Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.

Thanks,
Mark


Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

Once I even noticed it was going on, I used to write them back and ask them how they were replying  privately within a thread, because we have PM’s disabled in my group and the replies were clearly within the thread. It made no sense that they could even do it. But it turned out they had no clue they were doing it and thought they were posting to the group. The problem gets exponentially worse when people start themselves replying tk the private reply, not even knowing it’s private. Threads upon threads of private conversations can be generated without anybody even being aware, including the psrticipants themselves.

This morning, the new member switched back to using her Mac and her messages are posting again.


On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Leeni <leeniluvsgroups2@...> wrote:


I will check the activity now to see what email addresses they are using.
 
When I got an email to the owner, I would write the member and tell them to resend it. Then the same thing would happen again. 
 
I will report back my findings. 
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 10/20/2020 11:05:52 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion
 
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:51 AM, Leeni wrote:
I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner
It took me quite a long time to narrow this down. I ran a bunch of "reply" experiments in my group, and members were willing to be the guinea pigs. Eventually I narrowed it down to verizon or aol users on a PC. Some people in this thread (I think Bruce) helped by pointing out the problem with the Windows 10 email program regarding addresses. If you check, I think you'll find this is happening with your group members who are using verizon or aol email on PCs. They are probably totally unaware their messages aren't posting.

I would bet money this is happening in many, MANY groups all over the place and neither the owners nor the members are even aware of it. You can reply and everything looks normal. The subject of the thread looks normal, as if everything is going to and from the group. You have to look closely at the email address and/or fail to find the message(s) on the site to even know there's a problem.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

Leeni
 

I will check the activity now to see what email addresses they are using.
 
When I got an email to the owner, I would write the member and tell them to resend it. Then the same thing would happen again. 
 
I will report back my findings. 
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 10/20/2020 11:05:52 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion
 
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:51 AM, Leeni wrote:
I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner
It took me quite a long time to narrow this down. I ran a bunch of "reply" experiments in my group, and members were willing to be the guinea pigs. Eventually I narrowed it down to verizon or aol users on a PC. Some people in this thread (I think Bruce) helped by pointing out the problem with the Windows 10 email program regarding addresses. If you check, I think you'll find this is happening with your group members who are using verizon or aol email on PCs. They are probably totally unaware their messages aren't posting.

I would bet money this is happening in many, MANY groups all over the place and neither the owners nor the members are even aware of it. You can reply and everything looks normal. The subject of the thread looks normal, as if everything is going to and from the group. You have to look closely at the email address and/or fail to find the message(s) on the site to even know there's a problem.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 


Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:51 AM, Leeni wrote:
I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner
It took me quite a long time to narrow this down. I ran a bunch of "reply" experiments in my group, and members were willing to be the guinea pigs. Eventually I narrowed it down to verizon or aol users on a PC. Some people in this thread (I think Bruce) helped by pointing out the problem with the Windows 10 email program regarding addresses. If you check, I think you'll find this is happening with your group members who are using verizon or aol email on PCs. They are probably totally unaware their messages aren't posting.

I would bet money this is happening in many, MANY groups all over the place and neither the owners nor the members are even aware of it. You can reply and everything looks normal. The subject of the thread looks normal, as if everything is going to and from the group. You have to look closely at the email address and/or fail to find the message(s) on the site to even know there's a problem.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

Leeni
 

I was wondering why I have been getting a lot of messages to me as owner and not being sent to the group. That isn't good.  
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 10/20/2020 10:27:36 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion
 
At the risk of not picking my battles: I have just had to announce to my group for about the fifth time that replies from users with verizon or aol email on a PC don't post to the group. There's another new member with this configuration and her replies were coming privately to me, again completely unknown to the member (and, at first, me). I now have a group sticky, an alert in the welcome message, and an alert in the group guidelines about this, complete with a sad statement that I've been trying to get groups.io to create a workaround but it's unlikely in the near future yada yada. But people don't read or get it. If there could be a workaround to this soon that would be extremely helpful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 


Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

At the risk of not picking my battles: I have just had to announce to my group for about the fifth time that replies from users with verizon or aol email on a PC don't post to the group. There's another new member with this configuration and her replies were coming privately to me, again completely unknown to the member (and, at first, me). I now have a group sticky, an alert in the welcome message, and an alert in the group guidelines about this, complete with a sad statement that I've been trying to get groups.io to create a workaround but it's unlikely in the near future yada yada. But people don't read or get it. If there could be a workaround to this soon that would be extremely helpful.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

The problem with using word for groups.io is the formatting is incompatible.


On Oct 20, 2020, at 8:04 AM, Marv Waschke <marv@...> wrote:

It appears to me that there is either a bug, or at least difficult to predict behavior, lurking here somewhere. However, I have to say that I gave up on online drafts in all applications, not just gio, long ago in self-defense. Defects and unpredictable behavior in this area are everywhere. As a habit, I draft any writing of any length locally, usually in Word. Life is too short and humans too frail for me to expect perfect code. Best, Marv

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Marv Waschke
 

It appears to me that there is either a bug, or at least difficult to predict behavior, lurking here somewhere. However, I have to say that I gave up on online drafts in all applications, not just gio, long ago in self-defense. Defects and unpredictable behavior in this area are everywhere. As a habit, I draft any writing of any length locally, usually in Word. Life is too short and humans too frail for me to expect perfect code. Best, Marv


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 07:12 AM, Duane wrote:
I'm not seeing that.  Mine is saving each draft when I leave the composition page.
Not sure I understand the comment..?? You're not seeing that because you're not experiencing the bug.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:52 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
the fact that it saves the first drsftvand only the first draft
I'm not seeing that.  Mine is saving each draft when I leave the composition page.

Duane


Re: Actions button on member list becomes unavailable and count of selected members is negative #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:21 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Unchecking the previously selected members causes the count to go negative. Normal service can be resumed
I can verify that this happens on Firefox 81.0.2 and 82.0, both 64bit on Win7.  A somewhat easier 'resume' is to use the Uncheck All button to get things back in sync until the underlying problem is corrected.

Duane


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Jim Wilson
 

I'm definitely in favor of either a physical button or some indication that the draft was saved. For instance, within a few seconds of tapping the last character, Gmail displays "Draft saved" in grey text within the header of a new messages or in the upper right-hand corner of replies created online.

I don't think I've had drafts disappear but having no indication that a draft is saved has been a worrisome problem for me.
--
Jim


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Bruce,
I was ready to entertain an idea like that at the beginning. But certain features of this, like the fact that it saves the first drsftvand only the first draft, even over the course of about 15 minutes of repeatedly rewriting and adding to it, and the fact that I am definitely not logged out or I would be unable to access other content on the site during at least one of the many interim periods, make me skeptical at this point. I do hope Mark will offer his thoughts.


On Oct 20, 2020, at 6:42 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:31 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Three, maybe even four times tonight I've worked on a detailed draft of a message, gone outside the composition window to look something up, and come back to find the draft entirely gone except for the original first sentence.
J - Here's an idea, portions of which may be in error. If so, I'm sure Mark will correct me.

Asynchronous communication between the client and host (I believe groups.io uses jQuery) depends on certain actionable activities. Typing in the editor is not one of them -- sending every keystroke would take too much bandwidth. So those edits are cached locally. I don't know exactly what actions cause a draft to be saved, but it would make sense that if it only happens when you click away from the editor in that browser tab. If such an action occurs when you're not connected, logged out, or you otherwise manage to clear the cached changes, the intervening edits are lost.

Unlike GIO, my webmail forces me to log into the provider's portal at least once a day. I have often hit "send" only to discover that the login expired while composing the message, losing everything I'd written. It's irritating.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: #suggestion Embedding #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 09:22 AM, Alastair Sharp wrote:
Does anyone know how to embed code in a groups.io Web site?   I have some code which shows a better result than the associated URL does, but can't make it work.
Alastair -- Some constructs are stripped upon save. This includes scripting, iframes, and a lot of inline CSS. The speculation is that this is done so those features are not used as a vector for malware. Only Mark can tell you for sure.

You can put an iframe on the group's home page, but not in a wiki page. I have not attempted to put inline javascript on the home page.

Hope this helps,
Bruce


moderated Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:31 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Three, maybe even four times tonight I've worked on a detailed draft of a message, gone outside the composition window to look something up, and come back to find the draft entirely gone except for the original first sentence.
J - Here's an idea, portions of which may be in error. If so, I'm sure Mark will correct me.

Asynchronous communication between the client and host (I believe groups.io uses jQuery) depends on certain actionable activities. Typing in the editor is not one of them -- sending every keystroke would take too much bandwidth. So those edits are cached locally. I don't know exactly what actions cause a draft to be saved, but it would make sense that if it only happens when you click away from the editor in that browser tab. If such an action occurs when you're not connected, logged out, or you otherwise manage to clear the cached changes, the intervening edits are lost.

Unlike GIO, my webmail forces me to log into the provider's portal at least once a day. I have often hit "send" only to discover that the login expired while composing the message, losing everything I'd written. It's irritating.

Hope this helps,
Bruce


Re: Actions button on member list becomes unavailable and count of selected members is negative #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
but after choosing to Discard the message, the membership list was redisplayed with the two members shown as checked but the action button is unavailable as the count of selected members shows as zero.
Since my original post I have found that this seems to work OK in Chrome but not in Firefox.

Andy


#suggestion Embedding #suggestion

 

Does anyone know how to embed code in a groups.io Web site?   I have some code which shows a better result than the associated URL does, but can't make it work.

Thanks
Alastair Sharp


Actions button on member list becomes unavailable and count of selected members is negative #bug

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

I selected a couple of members from a member list and the clicked 'Send message' from the Actions button.  The message composition window was displayed correctly but after choosing to Discard the message, the membership list was redisplayed with the two members shown as checked but the action button is unavailable as the count of selected members shows as zero. Unchecking the previously selected members causes the count to go negative. Normal service can be resumed by selecting the Admin > Members option again from the left side menu.

Regards
Andy