Date   

moderated Re: +owner messages

 

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 8:13 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

This is great.

I'm wondering, do the confirmation emails have the same characteristic? Those have been more problematic for us than the "pending" messages.

No. The confirmation emails are created by us, and so don't have any headers that might cause issues.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: +owner messages

 

Mark,

This is great.

I'm wondering, do the confirmation emails have the same characteristic? Those have been more problematic for us than the "pending" messages.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated +owner messages

 

Hi All,

As part of looking into why there are issues with pending subscriber questionnaires, I noticed that we were not doing some header processing with +owner messages that might help. With group messages, we delete a bunch of message headers from the original message. These headers sometimes trip spam filters. 

I have added code so that we're now removing these headers for all messages sent to the +owner address. That includes responses to pending subscriber questionnaires. So, maybe this will help.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Also, it is helpful to have information about moderation status, etc., even if the user cannot change these.  It is easy enough to make a split between the section that reports non-user-tweakable status items and those the user can change.  I didn't want it to appear that I was pooh-poohing the idea of reporting the non-user-tweakable status items a user might want to know about.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I also have to say that I really like Joseph Lee's suggestion that if a message were to be sent to an as yet non-existent status address that if an address is subscribed that what should be returned, after the text saying it's subscribed, are additional lines documenting all of the settings currently configured for that particular address that can be tweaked through e-mail with the "tweaking instructions" right next to the current setting status.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

Wayne Scott <waynedscottjr@...>
 

I third the suofstion.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com
To: beta@groups.io
Date sent: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 08:32:39 -0800
Subject: Re: [beta] Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

Hi,

I second this suggestion. I�셝 like to suggest using the email address of the form groupname+status@groups.io <mailto:groupname+status@groups.io> that�셪l return status such as subscription, moderation flag and what not. Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: beta@groups.io [mailto:beta@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 8:09 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?



Something in Jeff Powell's response to me on the spam/blocked thread brought this question to mind.

You can send an e-mail message to subscribe, unsubscribe, and any number of other controls related to delivery options, but is there a way to check if you are subscribed from a given e-mail address without actually being subscribed to a group? If someone thinks they've subscribed with one e-mail address, but actually used another, is there a way for them to send an "Am I Subscribed?" request to check for the subscription status of the e-mail address it's being sent from?

I don't imagine this is a frequent need, but it seems like it wouldn't be difficult to implement and would give a mechanism to verify that a given e-mail address is subscribed to a given group.

Since I use the web interface almost exclusively except when testing I know that sending a help request always gets an automated response whether one is subscribed or not. What happens if you send an e-mail subscription control message if you're not subscribed? It might be possible to do what I propose using one of the existing mechanisms if some sort of "You're not subscribed to this group" message is generated in response to a control request of any sort when one is not subscribed.

--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.

~ James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

 

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 08:30 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
         I understand what you're saying, and agree, but I'm talking about sending a message from an e-mail address, which might be subscribed or unsubscribed, that would give the answer, "The address [insert address here] is subscribed

Brian,

I just wanted to see if it was possible (by any means) for users to get these answers currently, and it turns out that it is, but only in one direction - and even in that direction, the message is not user-friendly. I agree with you that an aesthetic way of asking for and providing the information, in both directions, would be nice. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

 

Having a "status" address that always replies would also be a good test for users who complain that no matter what they do, email never shows up. If they send a message to the status address, and get no reply, then something is seriously wrong. There should be a way for moderators to check on status requests to see if groups.io received it, and from what email address groups.io thinks it got the message from.

There should be some sort of limit to prevent this feature from being used to harass someone. Don't reply more than 20 times an hour per address, for example.

JohnF


moderated Re: Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

 

Hi,

I second this suggestion. I’d like to suggest using the email address of the form groupname+status@groups.io that’ll return status such as subscription, moderation flag and what not. Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: beta@groups.io [mailto:beta@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 8:09 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

 

Something in Jeff Powell's response to me on the spam/blocked thread brought this question to mind.

You can send an e-mail message to subscribe, unsubscribe, and any number of other controls related to delivery options, but is there a way to check if you are subscribed from a given e-mail address without actually being subscribed to a group?   If someone thinks they've subscribed with one e-mail address, but actually used another, is there a way for them to send an "Am I Subscribed?" request to check for the subscription status of the e-mail address it's being sent from?

I don't imagine this is a frequent need, but it seems like it wouldn't be difficult to implement and would give a mechanism to verify that a given e-mail address is subscribed to a given group.

Since I use the web interface almost exclusively except when testing I know that sending a help request always gets an automated response whether one is subscribed or not.  What happens if you send an e-mail subscription control message if you're not subscribed?  It might be possible to do what I propose using one of the existing mechanisms if some sort of "You're not subscribed to this group" message is generated in response to a control request of any sort when one is not subscribed.

--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

J,

         I understand what you're saying, and agree, but I'm talking about sending a message from an e-mail address, which might be subscribed or unsubscribed, that would give the answer, "The address [insert address here] is subscribed to [insert group name here]," or, "The address [insert address here] is not subscribed to [insert group name here]," depending on its actual subscription status.

         It certainly would be helpful that if you're attempting to subscribe with an address that's already subscribed that a message would come back saying you are already subscribed with that address.  I don't know how useful it is to receive a message saying you are already unsubscribed or you are not subscribed when sending in an unsubscribe request from an unsubscribed address, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.

         I'm a big believer in supplying feedback to users, and in the case of messages that are this simple I'd rather they be provided than not be provided.

         It's quite amusing to me that I somehow have gotten concerned with this at all since I consider e-mail lists generally to be an anachronism when compared against web-based interfaces that supply you with a much more in-depth view of what's happening and has happened on any given group.  But most of the groups I participate in are for those who are blind or visually-impaired and the preference for e-mail predominates in those groups because web-based interfaces are quite inconsistent (between sites) and many are not well-designed for accessibility using screen readers.  Thus, I've taken more than an abstract interest.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

Michael Capelle <mcapelle@...>
 

i totally agree.
 

From: J_Catlady
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [beta] Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?
 
On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 08:09 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
is there a way to check if you are subscribed from a given e-mail address without actually being subscribed to a group? 

Good question.

I just sent a test "subscribe" message to my test group from a subscribed email address, and nothing happened. It would be helpful for the system to send out a "you are already subscribed to this group" message in that case, instead of doing nothing.

I haven't yet tried sending an "unsubscribe" message from an unsubscribed email address, but hopefully, the system would conversely send a message that the email address is not subscribed to the group. 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

 

I tried the reverse, and at least in that case (sending an unsubscribe message from an unsubscribed address), you get the following back:

Your message couldn't be delivered to catladystestgroup+unsubscribe@groups.io because the remote server is misconfigured. See technical details below for more information.

The response from the remote server was:

500 Error: Your email address, [xyx.gmail.com], is not subscribed to that group.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

 

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 08:09 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
is there a way to check if you are subscribed from a given e-mail address without actually being subscribed to a group?  

Good question.

I just sent a test "subscribe" message to my test group from a subscribed email address, and nothing happened. It would be helpful for the system to send out a "you are already subscribed to this group" message in that case, instead of doing nothing.

I haven't yet tried sending an "unsubscribe" message from an unsubscribed email address, but hopefully, the system would conversely send a message that the email address is not subscribed to the group.  

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Can an e-mail user check their own subscription status via e-mail?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Something in Jeff Powell's response to me on the spam/blocked thread brought this question to mind.

You can send an e-mail message to subscribe, unsubscribe, and any number of other controls related to delivery options, but is there a way to check if you are subscribed from a given e-mail address without actually being subscribed to a group?   If someone thinks they've subscribed with one e-mail address, but actually used another, is there a way for them to send an "Am I Subscribed?" request to check for the subscription status of the e-mail address it's being sent from?

I don't imagine this is a frequent need, but it seems like it wouldn't be difficult to implement and would give a mechanism to verify that a given e-mail address is subscribed to a given group.

Since I use the web interface almost exclusively except when testing I know that sending a help request always gets an automated response whether one is subscribed or not.  What happens if you send an e-mail subscription control message if you're not subscribed?  It might be possible to do what I propose using one of the existing mechanisms if some sort of "You're not subscribed to this group" message is generated in response to a control request of any sort when one is not subscribed.

--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Groups.io messages not getting through/being blocked - generally

Jeff Powell <jrpstonecarver@...>
 

Hi Brian,

Speaking as a moderator, when I get a report like this I have a few things I check, but honestly the user can check it all too. In my experience, usually the user who is not getting mail has one of several problems, and looking at these things has so far always resolved the problem here on groups.io:

  • Login to groups.io, select the group in question, and check their subscription. This can lead to several relevant findings:
    • Are they logging in with the right email address? I've seen several members who get email from our group on one address, but forget which one that was. So when they don't get email on another address, they wonder why not.
    • Are they still a member at all? They might have marked something as spam, or they might have been automatically unsubscribed based on the comments of others here. The activity logs can help the moderators with this question.
    • Are they supposed to get email at all? At what frequency? Some people only read groups online, but might forget that. (Yes, really.)
    • Check the email delivery history. When was the last message delivered to them? Are messages to them bouncing? They can check this themselves and possibly resolve the issue with what they learn. (Though I have to admit most people don't seem to know what to do if their email is bouncing. Fixing seems to be something they expect someone else - anyone else, actually - to do.)
  • Check their spam folder. The #1 reason we have people stop getting email is that some provider starts routing all the messages from the group into the spam folder. Retrain as needed, or install a filter to put group messages into a folder instead.
  • Check the last message in the message view online and make sure it just hasn't been a while since the last message went out to the group. Even with our big group we can get half a day or more with no traffic, and that has caused people to ask where their email is.

If all of that seems OK, only then should they contact the moderators. Honestly, though, if all of that checks out and the email is going missing, the next step I would take as a moderator is report the bug to groups.io so they can check the SMTP server logs and see if any email is being sent to the user at all. That might reveal some underlying bug, but if mail is being sent and the user isn't getting it, then the issue is on the receiving end, and they have to report it to their ISP. And, sadly, good luck with that. My advice would probably be to find another email provider, but I haven't gotten to that point yet. All the times people's email has stopped or gone missing have been resolved with the above.

I have no idea if that helped, but it's a summary of what I do when this comes up. Maybe it becomes part of a message sent out to the groups you moderate or something. You're welcome to it.

--jeffp



moderated optional email notices for group activity #suggestion

 

I'm always checking the group activity log (which, unfortunately IMO, now takes two clicks instead of one), usually to find that there's been no activity. It would be helpful to have a moderator notification option for member activity (not message activity) to avoid having to do this so often.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New members not receiving notice

Tami D <artfulmuze@...>
 

Thanks so much Mark. That's great.

Tami Davis

On Monday, I added tracking of those messages. You should now be able to click on that member in the Pending Members view, and then click the Email Delivery History button at the top. If there was a problem delivering it, it should show up there.


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

Duane
 

On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 02:57 pm, ro-esp wrote:


I'm guessing limiting the digest to 12 messages is easier to implement than
sending a digest as soon as adding another message makes it exceed 102 KB ?
I think the problem with trying to use size is that the digest can vary for each individual. A person on a group can decide to mute a thread, so their digest will contain different items than someone that doesn't mute any or someone that mutes several.

Duane


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

ro-esp
 

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 03:05 pm, HR Tech wrote:


From what I've read it clips anything over 102KB. That's why the Y! digests
had about 12/13 posts in them. Most were then not clipped.

Before 2013 the digests were longer on Y! ( about 20 posts I think) but then
they switched to shorter ones to cope with gmail's annoying clipping issue.
If I remember correctly, they switched from 25 messages per digest to 15.

I'm guessing limiting the digest to 12 messages is easier to implement than sending a digest as soon as adding another message makes it exceed 102 KB ?

groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated Groups.io messages not getting through/being blocked - generally

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Hello All,

         There has been some discussion here about messages not appearing in new users inboxes when they've been sent, but there's also been some discussion on the Group Managers Forum about this, too, and issues relating to users marking Groups.io messages as spam (which I'd have to believe always gets noted by their e-mail provider and becomes a part of that provider's spam filtering mechanism after enough have done so) rather than either unsubscribing to a group or muting threads.

          I am posting this here because I'm not sure where to post but also think it will get a bit more exposure and discussion.

          It appears that this is also happening (but for what reason I do not know) to established members as well.  Someone from the domain ntlworld.com reports that he has not received any messages from a Groups.io group he's been subscribed to for a while for several days that I'm also subscribed to, and there has been traffic.

          What I'm wondering is what we can advise individual users to do with regard to this?   Should they be encouraged to contact their e-mail service providers and report that messages from groups.io are suddenly not coming in to their mailbox anymore?

           In addition, what might "we" want to do as far as educating new users with regard to NOT marking groups.io messages as spam, ever, but to use the "Mute this Topic" feature if they're receiving either individual messages or digests but really don't want to unsubscribe entirely or, if they've decided they're no longer interested, to unsubscribe, not mark messages as spam?
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet

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