Date   

moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

kr402
 

On Jan 9, 2017, at 2:46 PM, "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...> wrote:

Another of my personal contributions to thread drift that I think others might find interesting whether it's "on topic" or not.

Brian, 'thread drift' is a great way to describe it. I only referenced 
it being 'off topic', for those that may not like that we have drifted.
Which they can skip it, if they do not like it.

Your smartphone description is basically what an iPod touch is. 
When out and about I have people mistake it for an iPhone all 
the time and I have to explain that it is not and no I can not text 
them or send the equivalent IMessage unless I have wifi, which 
I have at home.

An iPod touch can meet the needs of those who do not want or 
need a smartphone and the cost of a data plan. A good eg: is a
young friend, who is 11. She loves my iPod touch and wants one
instead of a smartphone. She does not have a cell phone and 
does not want or need one. However, an iPod touch, which is
less expensive than an iPhone would give her a computer of 
her own to use, as she does not have a tablet, laptop or any 
other computer. 

KR



moderated Re: Wikis - examples

Duane
 

On my group wikis, I have some pages set to "Only moderators can modify this page" and others are open to anyone, depending on the subject matter. Sort of a happy middle ground.

Duane


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 03:43 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Still the funniest thing I've ever read on the Internet (NSFW): https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/im-comic-sans-asshole

Oh, it's SFW if you're not reading aloud, using a screen reader, and capable of keeping yourself from ROTFLMAO, literally.

I particularly love the final line, since Papyrus has been one of my absolute favorite stylized fonts since first seeing it.  It's got a mid-century modern feel, regardless of it's not-so-mid-century-modern name.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark Fletcher wrote:>>I've changed back the View/Reply Online link in HTML footers so that it behaves the same as the link in plain text footers. It goes to the individual message. It also displays the message number.<<

Thank you so much!

I appreciate all you do to make things work for us in here.

Brenda


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Maggie,

> I hovered over the link in an email message and the URL with #4061331
> shows up. I know that we don't have that many messages ...

That's the topic number, not the message number. I don't know why but topics are counted site-wide, not per group.

It's actually the topic ID, corresponding to the database ID of the topic record, which is why it's site-wide. Anyways....

I've changed back the View/Reply Online link in HTML footers so that it behaves the same as the link in plain text footers. It goes to the individual message. It also displays the message number.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Wikis - examples

Frances
 

Our travel discussion group uses the wiki for a links library. Here are two screenshots.

As you see, you can see who edited the page (we restrict who can do so) and the revisions.


Frances


Homepage of the wiki




moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

toki
 

On 9 January 2017 3:26:27 pm PST, HR Tech wrote:
would you please consider using a serifed font like Times New Roman or similar for the "convert to" font?
Not disputing the research.
The research is, shall we say, inconclusive.

Which font style is easier to read, quite literally depends upon which font style one is used to reading. Which is why material in different languages, or for different geographic regions use different fonts. What is readable for American English in North America is not readable American English in Eastern Europe. In a similair vein, what is readable German in Germany, is not readable German in North America.

>so this is just my opinion but I much prefer Helvetica and

a) There are potential licensing issues with Helvetica.

b) Not everything called Helvetica is an authentic Helvetica type face. For some letter combinations, the clones can look terrible.

Especially on mobile which is where
For mobile, I'd suggest Noto Sans * fonts.
Whilst they don't look that great, they can be installed on everything.

Jonatho

--
Multilingual ODF Support


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Complete aside, but I prefer Comic Sans to a lot of other non-serifed fonts.


Still the funniest thing I've ever read on the Internet (NSFW): https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/im-comic-sans-asshole

And now, back to bug fixing...

Mark 


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 03:29 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
What, no love for comic sans? 

Complete aside, but I prefer Comic Sans to a lot of other non-serifed fonts.

I think it's a lot easier on the eyes and easier to read than most non-serifed fonts, particularly since it is somewhat "bold-er" in its non-bold format.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

 

What, no love for comic sans? 

Mark

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 3:26 PM, HR Tech via Groups.Io <m.conway11@...> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:46 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
would you please consider using a serifed font like Times New Roman or similar for the "convert to" font?

Not disputing the research... so this is just my opinion but I much prefer Helvetica and it's consistent with the platforms that are being used as examples of a unified font choice.

For what it's worth the NYTimes switched from Times new Roman to Georgia and they use Arial as their sans-serif.

I'm a helvetica fan all the way! ( see the documentary if you are a font geek like me). But in general i much prefer sans-serif for emails/messages. Especially on mobile which is where a lot of emails/forums are read.

Maria



moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Maria
 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:46 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
would you please consider using a serifed font like Times New Roman or similar for the "convert to" font?

Not disputing the research... so this is just my opinion but I much prefer Helvetica and it's consistent with the platforms that are being used as examples of a unified font choice.

For what it's worth the NYTimes switched from Times new Roman to Georgia and they use Arial as their sans-serif.

I'm a helvetica fan all the way! ( see the documentary if you are a font geek like me). But in general i much prefer sans-serif for emails/messages. Especially on mobile which is where a lot of emails/forums are read.

Maria


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 02:59 pm, ro-esp wrote:
People abusing the reply-button for things that are not replies is not something we can solve by technical means.

Ronaldo,

            The problem being that "are not replies" is largely defined by how a given system, be it an e-mail client, web forum, or otherwise thread.  It is very common knowledge in some contexts (and right now Groups.io is one of those) that any change in subject will create a new thread of its own.  Those exploiting that appropriately aren't abusing anything.

             The problem arises because it appears that many either don't care (which you can't solve by software, they'll find a way to mess things up) or are acting by the dictates their e-mail client enforces, and many of those can and do thread with headers as "ironclad" and subject as secondary.

             If we were using header threading as "ironclad," and announced this in advance and repeatedly, people will eventually learn that you cannot and should not ever use the "Reply" button and get a new thread/topic, no matter what you do to the subject.  You'd have to compose a new message sent to the group posting address to do that, and that requires actually thinking about what you're doing and knowing that you're doing it, which gives an almost zero probability of new topics that are not really new topics being created as separate threads.  For myself, I've never created a "NEW SUBJECT (was: old subject)" via reply, but always create a new message and, if any bit of context is needed from the thread being spun-off from, it is obtained by copy and paste, not quotation. Again, that requires intentionality that's entirely absent in the all-to-easy-to-thread-split "reply and rename" technique.

             I still have on my wishlist that the "snippet" that gets shown in the web interface for any given thread would be a snippet of the latest message on the thread rather than the first in the thread, as it is more useful information when you're following something lengthy. 
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

ro-esp
 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:24 am, Brian Vogel wrote:


         This brings up a related, interesting, and almost certain to be
controversial topic:  I have seen e-mail clients that thread when threading
information is available in the message header regardless of whether or not
someone has changed the subject when the message originates via use of "reply"
which causes the threading information to be included.  The only way one
escapes a conversation/thread to form a new thread via e-mail is by creating a
new message, using a new subject, and employing "cut and paste" if desired to
transfer any context from a thread that one may be launching a spin-off from.
  Has that ever been considered here, or could it be?
I've said that new subjectlines should be regarded as new threads on several occasion, but let me specify.

If the subjectline is " NEW SUBJECT (was: old subject) " it should start a new thread.

If the subjectline is: " RE: OLD SUBJECT (specifier) ", it should NOT start a new thread. Use of such specifiers (such as the name of the person whose post you're replying to) can be practical , especially in threads that are many dozens of posts in length.


People abusing the reply-button for things that are not replies is not something we can solve by technical means.

groetjes, Ronaldo



         Most of the thread splitting I'm observing and fixing is the
direct result of user ignorance of threading conventions and netiquette.
 They treat the subject as an extension of the message body, and will prepend
or append something to it that's meant as an embellishment, but with no idea
that this would trigger an entirely new thread.  I believe that some of this
also arises because some e-mail clients thread strictly on header information
when that's available and ignore the subject altogether, so they're accustomed
to seeing mixed subjects under one conversation thread.

          There could be an argument made that this would be the best way
for Groups.io to thread based on my limited experiences on the groups I
frequent.  Others, of course, may differ, but they also may strongly agree.
 I'm really curious about what other people are experiencing with regard to
users changing subjects willy-nilly with "cute bits" when the actual message
they're sending is clearly just the next in the line for an existing
conversation/topic/thread.

Brian


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Nightowl >8#
 

Catlady wrote:>> Brenda, I have to say that reading that story was infinitely more enjoyable on my lunch break than the newspaper. :-) (I mean that in a good way, not a snarky one!!!)<<

Thanks, Catlady. I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)

Brenda


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Ro
 

I still have windows 8, maybe thats it.  Glitchy, and i hate the whole apps thing, and reduced programs that work.  many of my documents and files under the previous Windows.. (hmmm, before 7) wont now open..   


Too technical on the Wiki.  thats what scares people away from it.  I was deliberately keeping it simple for that reason. 


glad your sig is fixed!  


getting way off topic!


Ro

with Silk gazing over the fence, and Sally, Handy, Feliz &  Police Kitty patrolling in the Great Beyond.





From: beta@groups.io <beta@groups.io> on behalf of Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 2:42 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Message Number Missing in E-mail footer
 

Actually, Ro, a wiki is not "just files" in any conventional sense.  Wikipedia is the best known wiki, and the biggest difference is that anyone can edit the content (though group wikis are restricted, usually, to group members).  File repositories, while allowing vetted contributions from virtually anyone, are under far tighter control.  Often, as a result, those who might know more about something or know about something the vetter does not end up being stonewalled.  Conversely, wikis can end up full of pure garbage if someone isn't paying attention who at least has a good nose for unfounded speculation or incorrect information.

As an observation from my side, I can't see how a smartphone lover could hate Windows 10, while the less said about Windows 8 the better.  Having gone through every iteration of Windows since its debut, my feeling is that Windows 10 has kept virtually everything good about any version of Windows through 7, and cherry picked the good from the Windows 8 era very skillfully.  I have a Windows 7 machine I've intentionally kept that way so I have a reference when the odd client question arises.  All the rest that were either Windows 7 or Windows 8 have been upgraded to Windows 10.

Hey, my signature is back, Mark's fix worked!!
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 02:20 pm, kr402 wrote:
regarding not having a smartphone.

Just FYI, it's easily possible to have a smartphone for which you have no phone service, and that's what I've been doing since the end of the Palm (and related) PDA era.  It doesn't matter whether it's an iPhone or some Android-powered device, new or used, if you don't activate phone service all of the other stuff works and virtually everything except true "on carrier network" phone calls can be made on the devices.  If you use a VOIP service or Google Hangouts you can make VOIP calls on a "no phone service" smartphone with ease.

Another of my personal contributions to thread drift that I think others might find interesting whether it's "on topic" or not.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Actually, Ro, a wiki is not "just files" in any conventional sense.  Wikipedia is the best known wiki, and the biggest difference is that anyone can edit the content (though group wikis are restricted, usually, to group members).  File repositories, while allowing vetted contributions from virtually anyone, are under far tighter control.  Often, as a result, those who might know more about something or know about something the vetter does not end up being stonewalled.  Conversely, wikis can end up full of pure garbage if someone isn't paying attention who at least has a good nose for unfounded speculation or incorrect information.

As an observation from my side, I can't see how a smartphone lover could hate Windows 10, while the less said about Windows 8 the better.  Having gone through every iteration of Windows since its debut, my feeling is that Windows 10 has kept virtually everything good about any version of Windows through 7, and cherry picked the good from the Windows 8 era very skillfully.  I have a Windows 7 machine I've intentionally kept that way so I have a reference when the odd client question arises.  All the rest that were either Windows 7 or Windows 8 have been upgraded to Windows 10.

Hey, my signature is back, Mark's fix worked!!
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Moving files into folders bug

Donald Hellen
 

Mark,

This appears to have resolved itself. Our other group owner is 1/2 way
around the world in Australia, so we have a timing issue on reports
about the file issue we had.

I haven't tried to move files in the last day but last I checked files
were neatly put into folders. I am waiting to hear from her on this
but it appears to be OK now.

Thanks!!!

Donald


On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 09:53:04 -0800, "Mark Fletcher"
<markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Donald Hellen <donhellen@roadrunner.com> wrote:
We have a bug moving a file to a folder. Here's how we can duplicate
the bug.

Just a note to the group; this is caused by a bug that existed in the file import process when moving files from Yahoo. The bug's been fixed in the import process and I need to go and fix the issues with this group. The problem Don talked about should not exist in other groups.
Thanks,Mark _._,_._,_


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

kr402
 

I know this has become off topic, but I am going to reply
anyway to Brenda (as you may know we are about the
same age) regarding not having a smartphone.


On Jan 9, 2017, at 1:42 PM, "Nightowl >8#" <featheredleader@att.net> wrote:

I have an ipod touch instead of a smartphone
I do also and ❤ it. I do not need or want a smartphone.
The iPod touch can do anything an iPhone can do accept
there is no phone and it is wifi only which works for me. It
and an iPad mini meet my computer needs. Although I am considering purchasing an iPad pro as a replacement iPad,
which is a bit bigger than a mini.

I am having a difficult time finding a needed replacement
flip phone and do not like being pushed into maybe having
to buy an iPhone that I really don't need or want. If I did get
a smartphone it would only be an iPhone, so it can sync with
other apple devices.

KR


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Nightowl >8#
 

Ro wrote:>>Just clarifying that you do NOT owe us or anyone else this kind of detailed explanation.  No one should feel they owe anyone this kind of personal info. thank you for being willing to share it with us.<<

No problem. I feel if you try and understand why other people think the way they do, it improves communication and understanding in a group with different opinions. :)

You're welcome. :)

Brenda

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