Date   

moderated Re: little idea about offlist messages

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

J,

       Seriously, you use "This is an offlist message" or "The following is a private message" as the Subject line?

       The original proposal dealt only with subject line filtering, not message body filtering.  I would not support message body filtering because the words offlist or private can be used in public message bodies just like this one.  I wouldn't even support filtering for those if they were the subject line because "sliding checks" are not only much more complicated but also way more difficult to make a "fuzzy prediction" for.   If I were posting a discussion about offlist messages I would likely make the subject, "About Offlist Messages," which I definitely would never instantly interpret as having the intent of actually being an offlist message.

        I am speaking only about Subject line and only if the "trigger word" is the first word in the subject itself.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: little idea about offlist messages

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

P.S.:  If nothing but English matching were put into place at the outset the users of other languages are still only left with precisely the same situation we currently have.  They would need to communicate what the specific prefix for "Offlist:" or "Private:" in their language was to the filter maintainer if they want this traffic cop function.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: little idea about offlist messages

 

Well, I sometimes write, "This is an offlist message" or "The following is a private message" or "Hi, so-and-so, this is a private message ..." or some other sentence like that. It depends on how well I know the person, whether the context is touchy or not, etc. Which is why I think you can't simply use the first non-blank character. Although it could be a start. The problem with doing it halfway would be giving an impression that it's taken care of in all cases when it's actually not. Many people write in complete sentences. (I'm not always one of them, but I have been known to do it.)
J

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Actually, I think the implementation would be pretty simple.

Essentially, if the first non-blank characters (as some people accidentally add an "on the front" space or two) are the strings "offlist|off-list|private" (without case sensitivity then the web interface should immediately swap out the "Reply to Group" button with "Reply to Sender" and the e-mail interface should bounce the message back to the originator if the groups.io address being used is the group posting address.  Were you e-mailing it to someone else then this is a non-issue since the groups.io e-mail interface would never encounter that message in the first place.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: little idea about offlist messages

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Actually, it's not that big a deal for internationalization, since what gets used for this sort of filter is regular expressions.  If someone wants this extended to non-English equivalents the likelihood of any of those overlapping with an English word commonly used is vanishingly small.  Those variants would need to be identified to the person who's in charge of maintaining the regular expression used for the "at the beginning of the subject line" filter, but that's about it.

One writes for the primary audience, and on Groups.io that first shot would be English language plus a few others such as French and Spanish.  It is absolutely impossible to know how many potential languages might be used over time and one could never be 100% comprehensive unless omniscience were involved.

The construction for "only white space followed by stringA or stringB or stringC" ad nauseam is very easy to put together and I'd have to believe that Groups.io is using one of the many regex processors for pattern matching.  If I'm wrong about that, then it becomes a more complicated issue. 
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: little idea about offlist messages

 

Hi,

A major issue is internationalization, as some groups use languages other than English for post contents.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: beta@groups.io [mailto:beta@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 1:06 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] little idea about offlist messages

 

Actually, I think the implementation would be pretty simple.

Essentially, if the first non-blank characters (as some people accidentally add an "on the front" space or two) are the strings "offlist|off-list|private" (without case sensitivity then the web interface should immediately swap out the "Reply to Group" button with "Reply to Sender" and the e-mail interface should bounce the message back to the originator if the groups.io address being used is the group posting address.  Were you e-mailing it to someone else then this is a non-issue since the groups.io e-mail interface would never encounter that message in the first place.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: little idea about offlist messages

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Actually, I think the implementation would be pretty simple.

Essentially, if the first non-blank characters (as some people accidentally add an "on the front" space or two) are the strings "offlist|off-list|private" (without case sensitivity then the web interface should immediately swap out the "Reply to Group" button with "Reply to Sender" and the e-mail interface should bounce the message back to the originator if the groups.io address being used is the group posting address.  Were you e-mailing it to someone else then this is a non-issue since the groups.io e-mail interface would never encounter that message in the first place.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: little idea about offlist messages

 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:45 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
that the message should be rejected for "on group" posting

If he meant to reject a message that "starts with offlist AND is sent to the group," Im fine with it. But I think implementation would be difficult. You'd have to parse the text containing the word "offlist" or "private" pretty carefully.  
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: little idea about offlist messages

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

J,

Ronaldo originally wrote: "So maybe we can have some "code" that automatically rejects messages that start with OFFLIST or [off-list] , and blocks the "reply to group" button when someone changes the subject line so it starts with that in the web-interface."

Which I read more as if someone starts a topic or retitles a topic with "Offlist" (or similar variants, right now the web interface uses "Private:" if you use the private button) that the message should be rejected for "on group" posting via the "Reply to Group" button.

There should be no blocking if one is either using the Reply to Sender button or the "Private" button combined with it, since those would not result in public posting of what was clearly intended as a private message.

I don't read what he said as saying that the web interface should reject messages where the subject line has "Offlist" at the front of the subject, per se, but that it should recognize its presence and block availability of the Reply to Group button.

J, Would you object to this?  Ronaldo, am I misreading your intent?

--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: when topic is closed, remove "moderated" status #suggestion

 

To show that the situation is not completely logical: currently, I can set auto-close to 20 days and auto-moderate to 30 days. And I can also, by hand, set a closed topic to moderated. Do either of those make any sense? Why would I want to moderate a closed topic? 


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: change the term "default" to "active" for automatic notices #suggestion

 

Mark,

Thanks for changing this! I just noticed it. :-)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: when topic is closed, remove "moderated" status #suggestion

 

That's what I mean. Automatic moderation is not so useful, given that it's not just a first step to closure and is not preempted by closure. 

J

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
In that case, I'd probably just turn off automatic moderation and apply it only when needed.

Duane





--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Suggestion integration Facebook group

Göran <goran@...>
 

Excellent if doable.

Regards
Göran

Skickat från BlueMail
Den 13 jan. 2017, kI 19:14, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> skrev:

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 3:54 AM, Göran <goran@...> wrote:

It would be really great to be able to integrate a closed facebook group.
We have a closed member group that would be great to integrate because there is group.io members that don´t have and will never get a facebook account.
These members could also receive facebook post items.

While I haven't looked at the Facebook API in awhile to see if it's possible, this is on the todo list.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Invitation

Duane
 

Hmm, mine automatically saves whatever I type in the Custom Message box so it's still there next time I send an invitation.

Duane


moderated Re: Suggestion integration Facebook group

Göran <goran@...>
 

There is already a feature in groups.io to integrate Facebook pages. It means post on a Facebook page also posts in the group not the other way around.

Göran

Skickat från BlueMail
Den 13 jan. 2017, kI 20:01, toki <toki.kantoor@...> skrev:

On 01/13/2017 11:54 AM, Göran wrote:

It would be really great to be able to integrate a closed facebook group.

Those who don't want FaceBook to touch any part of their life, would see
that as a definable no-no.

So much so, that they would drop the Groups.IO list, on the grounds that
it was now a FaceBook property, owned, operated, and running under the
rules and policies of FaceBook.

jonathon




moderated Re: when topic is closed, remove "moderated" status #suggestion

Duane
 

In that case, I'd probably just turn off automatic moderation and apply it only when needed.

Duane


moderated Re: Suggestion integration Facebook group

toki
 

On 01/13/2017 11:54 AM, Göran wrote:

It would be really great to be able to integrate a closed facebook group.
Those who don't want FaceBook to touch any part of their life, would see
that as a definable no-no.

So much so, that they would drop the Groups.IO list, on the grounds that
it was now a FaceBook property, owned, operated, and running under the
rules and policies of FaceBook.

jonathon


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

toki
 

On 01/13/2017 02:33 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

I never presumed that code was "self-explanatory" to anyone other than its writer,
Anybody that ever programmed in APL would know that self-explanatory
code was a delusion.

and even not to him or her after they'd not been actively working with it for an extended period of time.
APL programmers know that regardless of how well commented the code is,
the only way to understand what it is doing, is to throw it away, and
rewrite the code yourself. This applies regardless of who wrote the
code, or when it was written.

jonathon


moderated Invitation

Göran <goran@...>
 

I have a suggestion to add to the invite customized message.

There would be great to be able to save this message.

Can´t find any save button for this so adding a message and then choose something else and then go back to invites this message is gone..

If it is possible to save this message, can someone enligth me.

Regards

Göran


moderated Re: when topic is closed, remove "moderated" status #suggestion

 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 10:30 am, Duane wrote:
I don't see a dilemma. If it was originally moderated after X days, I'd think you'd still want it moderated if it were reopened/unlocked. I'd think removing the moderation would be the exception rather than the rule.

The dilemma I see is probably because my concept of automatic moderation is sort of as a first step in winding down a topic, prior to it being automatically closed. Both automatic events occur simply because of the time element, not because there is necessarily anything about the topic requiring moderation. So if you want to reopen one of these topics, I don't think it should take two steps. I find that unintuitive. And with the moderated status remaining in place after the topic is closed (so that both are actually there, even if the gavel does not show up), it would take two steps.

I see this as very different from a topic that is put on moderation by hand. In that case, there's something inherent about the topic that made you want to moderate it. So if you close it and then reopen it, it makes sense for the moderated status to stay there until you remove that, by hand, too.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: when topic is closed, remove "moderated" status #suggestion

Duane
 

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 10:11 am, J_Catlady wrote:


But do we really want, for a topic that was *automatically* moderated after x
number of days and automatically closed after y number of days, to have to
remove both statusus by hand in order to reopen it?
I don't see a dilemma. If it was originally moderated after X days, I'd think you'd still want it moderated if it were reopened/unlocked. I'd think removing the moderation would be the exception rather than the rule.

Duane

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