Date   

moderated Re: Civil Discourse? #suggestion

Nightowl >8#
 

J_Catlady wrote:>>I don't know who the other person is you're talking about.<<

I'm not going to call her out by name in this thread, but if you check who I was replying to yesterday (before Brian), you'll see that I was responding only to her post about our mutual situation of trying to keep up in here, and stay informed of the changes.

So because of that mutual situation, and subsequent discussion, I found a better way to stay on top of the changes that are made or proposed, so it was a win win in the end.

Then I tried to answer a question Brian wrote after that, first by stating my opinion for both threading posts and locking topics would be for one month not 2 weeks, but then I stated I was thrilled that problem had been solved because locking has changed to moderating threads, and I don't use threading.

He seemed to not understand that I was not trying to get anything changed. I was just answering his question and also was it was great that locked has become moderated. I gave my opinion, that's all.

I hope this clears it up more, because I'm trying to drop it and move on.

Brenda


moderated Re: Civil Discourse? #suggestion

 

I think we (Brian and I) were responding to your past requests to change stuff that had been hashed and hashed over by the rest of us, after jumping in belatedly. In conjunction with your saying just now again that you are too busy to keep up, and that you want to keep threads open, etc, it sounded like the same thing all over again. I'm glad to hear it is not. I don't know who the other person is you're talking about. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Civil Discourse? #suggestion

Nightowl >8#
 

Catlady wrote:>> I want to feel respected, too. We all do. You've really put your finger on it. I think I feel disrespected by the behavior Brian and I are describing. It feels actually insulting to me.<<

I'm sorry if you feel disrespected. But I didn't come in here this time and ask to reverse anything. I quietly got caught up, and then tried to understand the Footer issue, and figure out what if anything had changed. I didn't even know something had changed for me until today. So why is that disrespectful? Can you help me understand that?

Is it truly disrespectful to everyone in here that I can't sit here all day and try and keep up with the message traffic? And yes, I'm genuinely asking.

What bothers me most, is I was responding to someone else who has been busy for 2+ months and who was NOT attacked in the manner I was when saying it.

Catlady wrote:>> I was only hoping to make you understand that. Obviously I failed and you feel attacked. I apologize and sincerely wish you a nice evening.<<

I do understand that, and I did not say you attacked me. I just want it clear that I didn't behave like that this time. I did not come in here and try and undo anything. I just tried to find out what had changed, and expressed an opinion about locking and moderating. That's it.

You have a nice evening too.

Brenda


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

 

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 02:54 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
I wonder if there are fields in the header which would tell you which interface each had used. Cite those messages to Mark off-list and I'll bet he can spot it.

Ok, I'll do that and will cc you. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

 

Brian,
Our posts crossed. That's exactly it. The behavior is disrespectful. I was trying to explain that in a nice way: it is OUR feelings that get hurt when someone ignores the group while the rest of us put in time and effort and pay attention, then jumps in at the end and expects our efforts to be dumped in favor of their own desires. 
J

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 7, 2017, at 4:50 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Brenda,

         You have been called out for repeated egregious behavior.  It is far from disrespectful to do so.  It is you who is profoundly disrespectful of other participants here with your sense of entitlement and willingness to assert the primacy of your needs and wants over those of others, popping in when it's convenient for you to do so.

          Change your behavior and I'll immediately drop my tone.  Until then, consider picking up the clue phone!

Brian


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Civil Discourse? #suggestion

 

I want to feel respected, too. We all do. You've really put your finger on it. I think I feel disrespected by the behavior Brian and I are describing. It feels actually insulting to me.

I was only hoping to make you understand that. Obviously I failed and you feel attacked. I apologize and sincerely wish you a nice evening.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 7, 2017, at 4:42 PM, Nightowl >8# <featheredleader@att.net> wrote:

Mark,

I am hoping that we will be revisiting the Code Of Conduct soon. I was happy when you stated that you wanted groups.io and specifically Beta, to be a place where people felt free to express their opinions without being attacked.

Instead, when I express mine, I always get told I'm wrong, outdated, annoying, etc. or worse, just because I have my own opinions that do not match others.

This was supposed to be a place of Civil Discourse. We are supposed to be respected in here and supposed to respect everyone else no matter what our different opinions are. That is not what this place is anymore.

I hope that is still your intention, as I don't appreciate being attacked and belittled.

Brenda



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Frances
 

Hi Brenda,

Ah! Things are complicated.

Cheers,

Frances

On Jan 7 17, at 5:42 PM, Nightowl >8# <featheredleader@att.net> wrote:

Frances wrote:>>Brenda, it looks like Mark fixed it already - or it was a momentary glitch. Your email arrived with this footer - including the View/Reply Online (#12399).<<

Your e-mail in my mail client doesn't have it, but John just figured out that it's only HTML footers that it's missing in, and I don't use HTML which is why you can see mine.

Thanks,

Brenda



moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Brenda,

         You have been called out for repeated egregious behavior.  It is far from disrespectful to do so.  It is you who is profoundly disrespectful of other participants here with your sense of entitlement and willingness to assert the primacy of your needs and wants over those of others, popping in when it's convenient for you to do so.

          Change your behavior and I'll immediately drop my tone.  Until then, consider picking up the clue phone!

Brian


moderated Civil Discourse? #suggestion

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark,

I am hoping that we will be revisiting the Code Of Conduct soon. I was happy when you stated that you wanted groups.io and specifically Beta, to be a place where people felt free to express their opinions without being attacked.

Instead, when I express mine, I always get told I'm wrong, outdated, annoying, etc. or worse, just because I have my own opinions that do not match others.

This was supposed to be a place of Civil Discourse. We are supposed to be respected in here and supposed to respect everyone else no matter what our different opinions are. That is not what this place is anymore.

I hope that is still your intention, as I don't appreciate being attacked and belittled.

Brenda


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

Nightowl >8#
 

Brian,

I do not appreciate being personally attacked in here. I'm entitled to my opinions and the way that I do things online as much as anyone else.

I would appreciate it if you would stop being disrespectful to me when I post.

Brenda


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

 

I agree that it's a two-way street. If someone is making the effort to read posts and contribute to the conversation, then it makes sense that their opinions would be considered.

The converse is also true. As in any relationship, if somebody has no time for me, if they disappear from my life, paying no attention to me for months on end, why I should I jump at their command when they suddenly show up again, telling me they were just too busy? That would disrupt my life, and I would not do it. (Not any more, anyway. Been there, done that.;)

I think it's very similar here.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Signatures for Web Posting suddenly not working on multiple groups

 

My sig has been coming and going all day. A couple of posts on my group didn't have it. Then the next one did. Now this post has it. Etc.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Signatures for Web Posting suddenly not working on multiple groups

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I've still got nada coming up in any reply I make via the web interface, and it's been that way since my first report on January 3rd.

It's not like this is a major crisis, nor needs to be the first priority to be remedied, but it's clear that something has "gone south" that is not under user control.

Brian


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 02:27 pm, Nightowl >8# wrote:
What my original point was, was that one month should be the norm for making any decisions and ensuring that everyone who needs to see the posts gets a chance to add feedback. Not two weeks.

 And I happen to disagree.   Decisions need to be made in a timely manner which, in the cyber-world, is often less than two weeks.

You, like every Groups.io member, have the ability to go to the Subscriptions page for any group of which you're a member, choosing the "All Messages" option, then going to the Advanced Preferences at the bottom of that page and select the Following Only option paired with the "First Message Also" option so that you get to see each and every new thread without having your inbox inundated.  If you do not choose to follow the topic you will not receive another message on that same topic/thread.  It's also possible to set the "Auto follow replies" option which makes any topic you start, or reply to, followed so you'll continue getting messages.  These options will work for Digest Mode, too.

You have exhibited the annoying habit of dropping in every few months and reviving lots of long dead threads claiming how negative they affect you and your users even when the things they discuss have already been in place for months.  This gives lie to your claims.

You either get to participate in a timely manner, when topics are under active discussion, or understand that if you don't you can make a request for a change, but not expect that it will be made because you've made it.

You might also want go back and pay attention to when the thread locking, later replaced by automatic thread moderation, policy was put into place and meditate on why that might have been.

Brian

--

    It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others.

         ~ John Andrew Holmes


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

 

J,

In case this is of any interest, the two members whose posts 100% of
the time start a new thread are using yahoo email addresses.
That is curious, as it certainly isn't the case for all Yahoo Mail users.

Maybe they aren't using the primary Yahoo Mail web interface. It could be they are using:

1) The Basic web interface
2) A client application on their computer, sending via Yahoo Mail
3) The Yahoo Mail phone app ("the highest rated email app")
4) Something else?

I'm guessing (3), just because. I wonder if there are fields in the header which would tell you which interface each had used. Cite those messages to Mark off-list and I'll bet he can spot it.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Nightowl >8#
 

Frances wrote:>>Brenda, it looks like Mark fixed it already - or it was a momentary glitch. Your email arrived with this footer - including the View/Reply Online (#12399).<<

Your e-mail in my mail client doesn't have it, but John just figured out that it's only HTML footers that it's missing in, and I don't use HTML which is why you can see mine.

Thanks,

Brenda


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

Nightowl >8#
 

Brian Vogel wrote:>>And, while I understand entirely that some have far busier lives than others, that doesn't mean that it should be, or would be, the norm that one should think they can drop in months later and just pick up on something that was long settled.<<

I don't think you understood what I was saying, because I was not talking about threading. I was saying, 2 weeks was too short before locking a topic. So I was relieved that Mark made it moderated instead.

What my original point was, was that one month should be the norm for making any decisions and ensuring that everyone who needs to see the posts gets a chance to add feedback. Not two weeks.

Sorry for any confusion,

Brenda



 "You snooze, you lose" does apply particularly on forums such

as beta when issues such as this one are being discussed.  Whatever the
outcome happens to be, it would be ridiculous for someone to think they could
just drop in to this thread long after it's over and believe that everything
should be reopened because they missed it when it was a current topic.  It
doesn't, and shouldn't, work that way.


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Frances
 

Brenda, it looks like Mark fixed it already - or it was a momentary glitch.

Your email arrived with this footer - including the View/Reply Online (#12399).

Cheers,

Frances


moderated Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark,

I just discovered that there is no longer a

View This Message (#9315)

line in the e-mail footer.

I completely rely on this Message number being there in order to stay on track in this group.

I respectfully request that you put it back, anywhere you like, as long as it's in the footer.

Thanks,

Brenda


moderated Re: Site updates #changelog

Benoît Dumeaux
 

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 09:38 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
MISC: Ability to import photos, files, databases, links from Yahoo Groups.

 News about the group that ask this?

--

Dreadaxe

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