Date   

moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:24 am, Nightowl >8# wrote:
I never read by thread or topic, only chronologically by number, which was a deal breaker in trying to find a replacement group site when Yahoo broke.

I preface the following with the sincere statement that it is not intended as provocative or nasty or saying "you shouldn't do this", but out of genuine curiosity:  Why do you do this?

It is becoming rarer and rarer for absolute message number to retain primacy anywhere as far as user interfaces go.  Some have eliminated it entirely.  Topic view, with the individual messages ordered either "newest to oldest" or "oldest to newest", depending on one's needs/preferences, is generally a really fast way of zeroing in on where to pick up on any conversation unless you left off a very long time ago.

Even if this feature comes back, and I suspect it will here, anyway, your chosen method is very likely "to break" if you ever have to move elsewhere, or even potentially in the future here.  Topic view takes so much of the load off cognitively when it comes to dealing with ongoing conversations.

I am genuinely trying to understand how completely unthreaded message view, even with absolute message numbers available for reference, could increase ease and speed over a threaded/topic view.  There's got to be something I'm missing, but I have no idea what that is.

Brian


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:31 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Did you do this 1-2 days ago? 

No ma'am, it went live at 11:05am pacific time this morning. I made no changes to the site over the weekend.

Mark 


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

 

Mark,

Did you do this 1-2 days ago? 
Thanks.

J

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:09 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

I've just changed the threading algorithm. Here it is:

If a message has threading information, use that. (same as before)
If a message does not have threading information:
- If it's a web post, assume it's the start of a new thread
- If the subject starts with Re:, look for a matching subject within the last 30 days
- If the subject does not start with Re:, look for a matching subject within the last 2 days

Please let me know if it helps.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 9:56 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Suddenly, today, the member's posts are threading correctly, even without "Re:"

The message activity log shows that he (and others) "Sent message Lysine" (instead of "Sent message Re: Lysine"). Yesterday, such posts were creating their own threads instead of threading under "Lysine." Today they are threading correctly.

I will try to get a better grip on this today and summarize it at the end of the day for Mark via support (and cc Shal). I'll also include whatever message headers seem relevant.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu




--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Reminder: Responding to old threads

 

Hi All,

NOTE: This is *not* directed at any one person. In the last week, there have been replies to old threads by *multiple* people, that I have not approved.

I need to guard my time, as there are a million things I want to accomplish with Groups.io and only one of me, so by necessity and by a desire to go at a fast clip, beta@ is set to moderate threads more than 14 days old. This is to keep things moving along and to not have discussions drag on. If a thread is moderated, I ask that you think extra hard about whether your comment will further the discussion.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Mark,

         This will almost certainly help, but might I ask whether the subject matching is "perfectly exact" or fuzzy?  There are many instances on some of the groups I frequent where someone will accidentally have knocked off, say the "R" on "Re:", or something similar but where the rest of the subject is still completely intact.  I can't think of a single instance where this should not result in the message being threaded into an existing active subject (and where I know that the message does not have threading information before you'd even get this far into the algorithm).

         This brings up a related, interesting, and almost certain to be controversial topic:  I have seen e-mail clients that thread when threading information is available in the message header regardless of whether or not someone has changed the subject when the message originates via use of "reply" which causes the threading information to be included.  The only way one escapes a conversation/thread to form a new thread via e-mail is by creating a new message, using a new subject, and employing "cut and paste" if desired to transfer any context from a thread that one may be launching a spin-off from.   Has that ever been considered here, or could it be?

         Most of the thread splitting I'm observing and fixing is the direct result of user ignorance of threading conventions and netiquette.  They treat the subject as an extension of the message body, and will prepend or append something to it that's meant as an embellishment, but with no idea that this would trigger an entirely new thread.  I believe that some of this also arises because some e-mail clients thread strictly on header information when that's available and ignore the subject altogether, so they're accustomed to seeing mixed subjects under one conversation thread.

          There could be an argument made that this would be the best way for Groups.io to thread based on my limited experiences on the groups I frequent.  Others, of course, may differ, but they also may strongly agree.  I'm really curious about what other people are experiencing with regard to users changing subjects willy-nilly with "cute bits" when the actual message they're sending is clearly just the next in the line for an existing conversation/topic/thread.

Brian


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Nightowl >8#
 

Shal Farley wrote:>>That's the topic number, not the message number. I don't know why but topics are counted site-wide, not per group.<<

Hopefully Mark will fix it, as it's about the only way I know where I left off in here. I never read by thread or topic, only chronologically by number, which was a deal breaker in trying to find a replacement group site when Yahoo broke.

Crossing my fingers it's going to be fixed.

Brenda


moderated Re: How on earth does Groups.io thread a topic?

 

Hi All,

I've just changed the threading algorithm. Here it is:

If a message has threading information, use that. (same as before)
If a message does not have threading information:
- If it's a web post, assume it's the start of a new thread
- If the subject starts with Re:, look for a matching subject within the last 30 days
- If the subject does not start with Re:, look for a matching subject within the last 2 days

Please let me know if it helps.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 9:56 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Suddenly, today, the member's posts are threading correctly, even without "Re:"

The message activity log shows that he (and others) "Sent message Lysine" (instead of "Sent message Re: Lysine"). Yesterday, such posts were creating their own threads instead of threading under "Lysine." Today they are threading correctly.

I will try to get a better grip on this today and summarize it at the end of the day for Mark via support (and cc Shal). I'll also include whatever message headers seem relevant.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

There should have been a "tend" before that "to be much easier to read."



moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Mark,

           If you do decide to go this route as far as the presentation side of things goes, and I'd fully support that, would you please consider using a serifed font like Times New Roman or similar for the "convert to" font?

           There is actually a lot of formal research out there on reading that clearly indicates that most readers find serifed fonts (and "normally serifed," not some of the extreme exercises in design that exist) to be much easier to read than non-serifed fonts.  As you can see, Times New Roman, in 14-point, is slightly smaller than Helvetica is in the same point size, so you'd have to trial both the font chosen and the point size to arrive at something that you consider suitable.  I would be happy to make recommendations if those are welcome for candidate fonts.

Brian


moderated Re: Getting rid of full page refresh after choosing "Start Merge" #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Mark,

           I am adopting Zen for the moment, and have been.  This will likely be a low priority fix even if it's doable, but I'd still strongly suggest you put it on your list if it is simply because there exist a massive number of existing thread splits in groups that have been around a while that many other than myself feel almost duty bound to correct for the historical record and ease of searching.   Please don't make us have to "become perpetually additionally Zen about it" unless it really is a herculean task for you (in which case, I think we all understand priorities must be set).

Brian


moderated Re: Getting rid of full page refresh after choosing "Start Merge" #suggestion

 

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

If there is a way to stop the full page refresh after the "Start Merge" control is chosen, and to make sure that focus remains on or very close to the "merged into" thread after the "Merge into" step is taken it would make archive tidying a much easier process.

If there's not, then definitely let me know as I'll slowly transition myself into my Zen "that's the way it works; it's part of the charm" state and learn to deal.

Without thinking too hard about it, it's probably doable, but not without a lot of work. So I'd probably recommend Zen, at least for the short term. And hope that the thread fixes we're talking about reduce the need to merge.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

 

Hi All,

Personally, I agree with Maria. I am distracted when messages contain different font sizes or colors. That's one of the reasons I thought MySpace was horrible, and why I agree with many of the design decisions that Facebook made. If you look at some of the popular forums out there, like Discourse and Reddit, they don't permit different font types, sizes and colors.

This has been in the back of my mind for awhile. I'd like to add an optional, but defaulted to on, feature to strip different font sizes, types and colors from messages. Perhaps I need to make this more of a priority.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Maria,

> I'd be curious to know how forums that use discourse do it (like the
> feverbee community). Their web interface is all the same font size
> and their mailing list summaries too. It's HTML though not plain
> text. Graphics, emojis etc all visually represented. I think at
> least...

A forum might have limited composition tools, and might or might not represent the messages in HTML internally (though they must be converted to HTML for display in a browser or via email).

Groups tend to be fundamentally different in that posting by email is common - and the email user interfaces usually give the users fairly broad (if not complete) control of the sent HTML.

I could see where a group that posts entirely (or primarily) on the Groups.io interface might want an selection in between plain text and general HTML - one that removes the font, size and color choices but still allows text styles (italic, bold) and other elements.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum





moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

 

Maggie,

I hovered over the link in an email message and the URL with #4061331
shows up. I know that we don't have that many messages ...
That's the topic number, not the message number. I don't know why but topics are counted site-wide, not per group.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated New card added

beta@groups.io Integration <beta@...>
 

[Beta] New card "Ability to move photos between albums." was added to list "Photos".


moderated Re: Updating FILES

 

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Everett Kaser <everett@...> wrote:
This came up before:
   https://groups.io/g/beta/topic/1616504#7993
but I can't tell if it was made a "can't do" or if it was implemented somehow, and if so, how...

Is there a way to update a file (that the member uploaded) without deleting it first and then re-uploading?

There is currently no way to update a file. You may wish to look at the wiki, which would let you update text files.

Cheers,
Mark 


moderated Re: Moving files into folders bug

 

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Donald Hellen <donhellen@...> wrote:
We have a bug moving a file to a folder. Here's how we can duplicate
the bug.

Just a note to the group; this is caused by a bug that existed in the file import process when moving files from Yahoo. The bug's been fixed in the import process and I need to go and fix the issues with this group. The problem Don talked about should not exist in other groups.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Move photos between albums

 

Hello,

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Tami D <artfulmuze@...> wrote:
Is there a way to move photos from one album to another?
I've looked and cant find it if there is such a thing. 

We're an art group that has a monthly lottery. In Y-Groups, after the winner is chosen, one photo is moved into the "Past Lottery Winners" album and all the rest are moved into the "Past Lottery ATCs".
 In this way we keep all the lottery art together without having an extra album being added to the group each month.

There is currently no way to move photos between albums. I've added it to the TODO list but I do not know when it will be implemented.

Cheers,
Mark 


moderated Re: Site updates #changelog

 

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Benoît Dumeaux <benoit.dumeaux@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 09:38 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
MISC: Ability to import photos, files, databases, links from Yahoo Groups.

 News about the group that ask this?


Several transfers have already been done. 

Mark


moderated Updating FILES

 

This came up before:
https://groups.io/g/beta/topic/1616504#7993
but I can't tell if it was made a "can't do" or if it was implemented somehow, and if so, how...

Is there a way to update a file (that the member uploaded) without deleting it first and then re-uploading?

Everett


moderated Re: pending member notices going into spam more often than not - is there any fix?

 

...just realized I answered with respect to thread splitting in the thread about spam, in response to your request to send you THOSE emails. That's because this seems to be an intersection of the two problems.
J

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 8:54 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 03:07 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Off-list, when this happens again, please send me the email addresses of the people whose messages are going in spam.

Mark,

I will send you this info today, even though things have changed a bit with regards to the splitting (not sure whether you've been working on it). For the info of others, it turns out that one of the people whose emails always (or used to) split threads told me yesterday that all (he used the word "all," could be just "most") of his messages from my group are going into his spam folder. He is using yahoo email, like the other person whose email splits threads.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

17121 - 17140 of 29457