Date   

moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

If you're using Safari you're in an e-mail client program.  This most likely answers the question, though not definitively until someone chimes in that uses the Gmail web interface, that Google is actually truncating the message, as I have never seen any e-mail client, ever, that does that sort of thing.

So far as that goes it should be a, "Complain to Google," issue - as far as that will get you.  I have never figured out what does and does not influence Google, as their missteps with regard to user interface issues (the new "contacts" format is a nightmare and people have been complaining ever since it was imposed a couple of years ago).

cIn the end, though Mark may come up with a "work around," this is ultimately not a Groups.io problem.  If the digests are made shorter there will almost certainly be complaints from high-traffic groups that, "You've doubled the number of digests I'm getting each day, and the reason I get digests is to minimize e-mail traffic!!"

It comes back, in my opinion, to people understanding that their choices (in this case, of e-mail provider) have consequences/side effects.  It doesn't seem to me that this is an issue that Mark can ultimately resolve nor should really try to resolve.  But I have no objection (not that it should matter if I did) if he does make the effort.  It is impossible to predict what may or may not change for the multitude of e-mail providers out there as far as message truncation goes.  I can imagine a number of high traffic groups where a much larger number of messages might be wanted in a single digest rather than 25, too.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

 

p.s. AFAIK they just send out these gigantic emails once a week, and my gmail clips them and makes me click on "view entire message" at the bottom to see the whole thing. I'm not sure whether that has the effect of logging me into their site or not, but it looks like not.

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 7:44 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Brian,

I'm not that kind of techie, so I have no idea. I'm using gmail on safari on a Mac, if that answers your question. I don't know what they do on their end. They send the message on a certain day of the week and it is terrible!!!

J

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 7:41 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

J, Is the Gmail problem in their web interface or are you using an e-mail client?

-- 

Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

 

Brian,

I'm not that kind of techie, so I have no idea. I'm using gmail on safari on a Mac, if that answers your question. I don't know what they do on their end. They send the message on a certain day of the week and it is terrible!!!

J

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 7:41 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

J, Is the Gmail problem in their web interface or are you using an e-mail client?

-- 

Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

J, Is the Gmail problem in their web interface or are you using an e-mail client?

-- 

Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

 

The same thing happens on gmail with another mailing list I'm on. You always have to scroll to the bottom of an already very long message (event though clipped) and click on "view complete message."

I do this automatically now with their digests before even beginning to read, because you can't get valid search results otherwise. It's really annoying.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

Tony Moody
 

Mark,
I send out two digests if the first one is too long, about two pages long. The second one goes out an hour later due to possible restriction by my ISP.  It is a text only, manually generated email service, twice per day. A different animal but the same problem when input is hectic. 

OK,
Tony



On 26 Jan 2017 at 21:45, Mark Fletcher wrote about :
Subject : [beta] Experimenting with digest si

Hi All,
<snip>
So, I'm thinking of experimenting with lowering the max number of messages in a digest. Maybe to 20, maybe something less. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark
  


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Mark,

          Is this something that could be tweakable by the Group Owner?   I imagine on some high-traffic groups that even 25 messages (and I think you cap at 25 if number 26 arrives you generate a digest - It's been a while since I received digests) is "too low."

          Not that I don't think that playing with this isn't something you might do, but I don't think you're ever going to get around limits imposed by products outside the purview of Groups.io no matter what you do.  I use Gmail, but not iOS, so I don't know about how the Gmail app works on that platform.  People are going to run into issues imposed not by Groups.io, but their e-mail providers, clients, and apps of choice that you could spend a lifetime trying to fix.  When it comes to Google in particular, what's one way this week may not be the same way next.  You could drive yourself insane trying to keep up with what others change.
--
Brian

I have made mistakes, but have never made the mistake of claiming I never made one.   

          ~  James G. Bennet


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

Maria
 

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 09:45 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
When that happens, you have to click a link to open the digest in a web page (if at all; the current Gmail IOS app doesn't even provide a link to expand a truncated digest). Truncated digests also break linking from the index to individual messages. It's a bad user experience.

And I think this is actually the #1 reason to make a change: the gmail app ( which they haven't fixed now since november), the broken index links and in some cases the fact that the reply links get messed up when you open the digest in a second page. It's not a good user experience. Great to get less in your inbox, but not worth it, if the experience isn't satisfactory when you do get that digest.


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

Maria
 

Yahoo caps them at about 13 because of the clipping issue (and index links stop working at around 12..?). Of course, then people complain that it's not really a "daily" digest as it's more frequent in busy groups... but if groups.io doesn't call it a daily digest, then it's not a misnomer.

Like Linda, I also think that not having it clipped may boost participation: a)it's not clipped so people don't have to do the extra work and b) it comes out more frequently which could help with the rhythm of posts and c) not as dense to get through. 

For those who complain of then having too many digests in one day ( on busy groups) maybe there could be the 25 digest option? In other words - could a group default be a shorter digest and then a member could override that to select a longer digest if they were ok with the clipping and preferred fewer/longer digests?

I also think for groups where people send loads of pictures on each post - shorter digests may be better.

I was liking the 25 message digests - but am now seeing reasons why shorter is better. What's the point of a long digest if people find it too much to read, and then the mail clients clip it anyway?

Maria


moderated Re: Experimenting with digest size?

Linda
 

Hi Mark,
I'd be fine with a dozen or even fewer messages in each digest; it might even help boost participation, esp. with the three-ring circus on tv likely to continue for at least four years.

Linda



Mark wrote:
I'm thinking of experimenting with lowering the max number of messages in a digest. Maybe to 20, maybe something less. Thoughts?


moderated Experimenting with digest size?

 

Hi All,

Currently we cap the number of messages in a digest at 25. When we hit that number, or at 10pm pacific time every night, we generate a digest. Same as Yahoo and I believe Google groups. I don't remember exactly how I came up with the 25 number when I first wrote ONElist back in 1997, but it certainly wasn't based on any research or anything, and that decision was made back when most messages were text only and we didn't have nice digests.

What we're seeing these days is that many full featured digests are getting truncated by mail clients for being too long. When that happens, you have to click a link to open the digest in a web page (if at all; the current Gmail IOS app doesn't even provide a link to expand a truncated digest). Truncated digests also break linking from the index to individual messages. It's a bad user experience.

So, I'm thinking of experimenting with lowering the max number of messages in a digest. Maybe to 20, maybe something less. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Brief downtime this evening

 

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:40 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Thanks for the heads up. Take your time!!! Hope all goes well. :-)

Sure, you say take your time, but I'm guessing that's because you just like to look at the cat pictures on the maintenance page. :-)

Advanced warning, I'm going to need to upgrade the main database machine soon, probably in the next two weeks, which will require about 1.5 hours of downtime. I'll post separately when I have a date/time locked down for that. Onward and upwards.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Brief downtime this evening

 

Mark,
Thanks for the heads up. Take your time!!! Hope all goes well. :-)
J

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

As part of the effort to fix the duplicate message issue, I need to add a new column to the message database, which is our largest database (8.9M individual messages at the moment). This will require about half an hour of downtime. I will do this at 7pm pacific time tonight. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Mark



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Brief downtime this evening

 

Hi All,

As part of the effort to fix the duplicate message issue, I need to add a new column to the message database, which is our largest database (8.9M individual messages at the moment). This will require about half an hour of downtime. I will do this at 7pm pacific time tonight. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Smilies? #suggestion

Taffman <webmaster@...>
 

Unless it's already there and I'm missing it, I'd like to see the ability to add Smilies in the message header :-)


moderated Duplicates coming sometimes from Yahoo

 

Hi All,

FYI, I've received reports from multiple groups about duplicate messages coming in sometimes from Yahoo addresses. We do not currently have code to catch these dupes. We talked about it a few months ago, but it's a tricky thing and I never got to it. It appears that I now need to make it a priority, which I will do tomorrow.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Wiki Suggestion #suggestion

Jujube <ellaxyu@...>
 

That would be nice.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave, G8FXM" <webmaster@uksmg.org
To: beta@groups.io
Date sent: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 02:09:12 -0800
Subject: [beta] Wiki Suggestion #wishlist #wiki

Presently we an set he Wiki as visible/editable to subscribers or moderators as a whole. I'd love to be able to set individual page attributes such that some are visible to subscribers while others are not.


moderated Wiki Suggestion #suggestion

Dave, G8FXM <webmaster@...>
 

Presently we an set he Wiki as visible/editable to subscribers or moderators as a whole. I'd love to be able to set individual page attributes such that some are visible to subscribers while others are not.


moderated Re: photos on home page

 

Yay! 
J

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 24, 2017, at 2:48 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 7:13 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Re the reverse chrono order for the emailed photos page: that would also make it at least somewhat feasible to remove the duplicates if you keep the photos on the home page.

I've changed the default ordering of the emailed photos album to be most recent first.

Thanks,
Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: photos on home page

 

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 7:13 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Re the reverse chrono order for the emailed photos page: that would also make it at least somewhat feasible to remove the duplicates if you keep the photos on the home page.

I've changed the default ordering of the emailed photos album to be most recent first.

Thanks,
Mark 

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