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moderated Member Unable to Post Through Email #bug

Chris
 

I noticed in the most recent Site Update the following change:

"SYSADMIN: Warming up a new email server by gradually sending some email traffic through it and monitoring email deliverability"

Since then, one of my members has reached out telling me that he's sending emails to my Group but they're not showing up.  He is using a Hotmail account and posting using an iPhone.  I checked his member profile and nothing looks out of line.  I also checked Admin > Activity and see nothing unusual there either.  I'm left thinking it's something in this new email server that's blocking/preventing his posts from being delivered and showing up.

Thanks.

Chris
Joint Line Railfanning


moderated Re: #bug in member search #bug #fixed

Judy F.
 


Bob, I don't know if your problem is the same as mine, , but when I search in messages using an email address, I don't see the message I'm looking for, but when I scroll through the list, it is there. 

This makes my job of checking out information for ads on a buying and selling group very difficult and time consuming.  I mentioned it to Duane and he said there was a bug a while back, but
thought it had been fixed. 

Thank you.
Judy F. Moderator
Sew it's For Sale GIO
SW Florida - USA


moderated In pending message rejection, include the originally sent message, not an edited but still unapproved version of it #suggestion #misc

 

I recently started to edit an extremely long pending message for length and clarity. I eventually gave up and simply rejected the message, asking the member to rewrite it herself and resend. But in the message rejection notice, on which I bcc'd myself, where it says "the message is attached," the original message was not attached. Instead, the partically edited (by me) version of it was included.  This could be extremely confusing to the member and I think this is a mistake.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

I forgot to include this important part of Bruce's reply: "Windows 10 Mail has been reported to fail to honor RFC 5322."
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 09:05 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
it does happen with gmail
typo - should read "does NOT happen with gmail"
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Rewrite "From" address to match group address in certain cases when user is running Windows 10 and aol or verizon email #suggestion

 

For users running Windows 10 and using either aol or verizon (=aol) email, and in the setting where a group is set to "Reply to group," a reply via email by clicking "Reply" does not go to the group. It instead goes to the individual member who generated the message, causing a private email exchange that is generally (or can be) unknown by both parties to be private. The message never actually posts to the group, the user probably doesn't realize it, and if the individual who wrote the original message replies to the reply, they, too, are replying privately and are probably, or at minimum can be, completely unaware of that fact.

If, OTOH, such users click "Reply all" from their email, that does not solve the problem. The reply then does go to both the group and the individual (as a cc); however, if the cc'd individual happens to reply from THEIR email by clicking "Reply," their reply does not post to the group (although they probably believe it does) but rather goes privately to the person who replied to their original message, again causing a probably completely unknown private exchange.

Before realizing the specific circumstances of the problem, I started a thread about what I thought was a bug with the "disable other reply options" setting. Eventually, after I determined that one user involved in this kind of situation was on a PC running Windows 10, I posted that piece of information and Bruce posted the following. I have bolded his actual suggestion:
Currently, in groups.io, the From: address of an individual message is the same as the person who made the post. An account setting could be established to rewrite this From: address to match the group address, but only for those groups that have both "Reply to Group" and "Remove other reply options" set. This is kinda along the lines of the existing "I'm on GMail and always want copies of my own emails" account setting. Although I'm reluctant to recommend the expansion of such account settings, it should work, and is just about all groups.io could do to address this.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/26368

Since he was reluctant to make the suggestion, I am now doing it as a separate suggestion/topic, in case it got lost in the tangle of unrelated messages in the other one. Since then I have also found that the problem does not happen with all users running Win 10, but it specifically does reliably occur for people using aol or verizon. Of course there may be other cases, but it does happen with gmail, for example.

In the meantime, I have instructed all my group members using aol or verizon who are running WIndows 10 never use "Reply" to reply to a group message by email because it will not post to the group, and to either post from the web, or use "Reply all" and then go in and manually delete the cc to the individual, leaving just the group address. I've told the people involved that groups.io may come up with a fix, but meanwhile, that's what they have to do.

Thanks.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #bug in member search #bug #fixed

Bob Bellizzi
 

Mark, no matter how/where I set my line count, it appears that the 20 line max is back in Search
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Bob Bellizzi


moderated Ordering "my groups" #suggestion

 

Hi,
I gave a group name or a subgroup name to my groups for a reason. But can't order it by their group -especially by their subgroup- names in my groups page.

I think that ordering groups by its groups name is more effective then by ordering them by group addresses. Because you can order all them by making a small change in group name, which is not so important by members.

But changing a group mail address is more important. You have not an option to reach your members address book.

MyGroups default page must have ordered in groups name in my opinion. Or we should have an option to ordered by groups name at least.

Greetings,
şy


moderated Re: Cannot reply from +owner address #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 12:47 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I seriously regret that my proposal has brought to light something that some folks feel to be a long-standing problem.
I don't think it is a long - standing problem at all; is there any evidence that some moderators somewhere have abused the capability to post messages to either a whole group or to individual members in the name of the group owner?

In the absence of that evidence (and I have no recollection of the issue being raised either here or on GMF in the last 2½ years or so) I would conclude that any problem is more theoretical than real.

Chris


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • SYSADMIN: Warming up a new email server by gradually sending some email traffic through it and monitoring email deliverability.
  • INTERNAL: Cleaning up some technical debt around logging and tracing.
  • API: Added endpoints to get and manipulate pending messages, including /getpendingmessages, /claimpendingmessage, /deletependingmessages, /rejectpendingmessages, /approvependingmessages. NOTE: These endpoints are still under development.
  • NEW: Moderators have the option of replying to a message on the website from the +owner address.
  • NEW: The /topics-test page has been updated to allow bulk setting of topic reply to.
  • INTERNAL: Using the replica databases to serve /topic URLs for non-logged in users now (mainly crawlers).
  • CHANGE: We now ignore errors in Content-Disposition lines when parsing email messages. We only need the parameters as a check on the Content-Type, so it's not important if we can't parse them.
  • DOCS: Updates from Nina

Take care everyone.

Mark


moderated Re: Cannot reply from +owner address #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 06:34 PM, Marv Waschke wrote:
I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with a moderator able to send under the owner's imprimatur.
Yes, and when you delegate privileges to send emails in something like Exchange a recipient sees the sender as the equivalent of 'moderator on behalf of owner' so it clearly identifies what's happened.  There is no such distinction in Groups.io. There are lots of things I like about Groups.io but this is certainly not one of them.

Andy


moderated Re: Cannot reply from +owner address #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 04:26 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Bruce, regardless of any member management permissions a Moderator has, unless they have a membership role of Owner, they are not an owner and sending emails as though they are is fundamentally wrong. The fact that Moderators can alter their own settings to choose whether or not to receive +owner emails just compounds the issue.
Andy -- I seriously regret that my proposal has brought to light something that some folks feel to be a long-standing problem.

I don't see how extending the problem really helps. If you want someone to send an email as an owner, make them an owner.  If you want a moderator to be able to send messages or replies other than from their own account, have a +moderator address.
This topic is growing increasingly tangential to the original proposal and its implementation. If a new proposal was clearly stated for consideration perhaps we can discuss it further there.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Topic View screen message editing: making duplicate image-trimming easier/faster #suggestion

Christos G. Psarras
 

Hi Mark,

The job of editing a topic's thread to remove unnecessary or duplicate images due to reply non-trimming can be a bit time-consuming.  Right now, the only way to efficiently do it is to open and fully expand the topic in one browser tab, see what messages need editing, open those messages in Single Message View in new tabs, do the edits and close the tabs, then refresh the Topic tab and re-expand all quoted text bits again to make sure you didn't miss anything.  That re-expanding part can take a bit of mouse clicking if the topic is rather long with lots of them showing, and makes the job more time-consuming than it could be, especially if the person editing the messages is not as apt/knowledgeable, and they are doing the cleanup within one tab by editing in-situ while in the Topic View screen; when they are returned back to that screen after editing the message, they have to re-expand them again, so in that usage scenario it takes even longer.

IMO it would be a useful time saver if when one is in the Topic Message View screen and has expanded some or all of the "Show Quoted Text" bits, if they F5-refresh the page or if they edit a message, when they are returned back, the screen retains the state of those bits and renders accordingly.  Right now it resets back, and one has to re-expand them. 

I thought of a few alternative ways of achieving this if keeping the quoted text button state is not practical, they would accomplish the same end.

1: In the main message screen, a new option in the Topic Options pulldown, maybe "Trim Topic", "Clean Topic", etc, which would open the Topic View screen with all the quoted text bits rendering already expanded:




2: Or a variation of no.1 but in the Topic View screen this time; some "Expand/Collapse All ..." button/checkbox/whatever at the top or bottom of the Topic view screen, clicking it would expand (or collapse) all the displayed quoted text bits in the topic.


3. Or in the message display area, a small icon indicator next to the show/hide button, which would indicate if the quoted text contains images or attachments, something like this for example:


You'd still have to expand them again in this case, but it would at least give you a visual clue whether there are images contained therein that message's quoted text, so if you were specifically hunting for images, you would know not to bother expanding the ones that don't show it; or if you were currently cleaning-up dupe images, you would know you took care of removing them in that particular message.
 
Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Cannot reply from +owner address #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 10:08 PM, Jeremy H wrote:
But something which would make it much better would to amend the 'display name' to make it clear that it was from the owner (e-mail - both on reply, and any initial post) - perhaps by adding '(as Owner)' or similar after normal name - so, e.g. (for me) it would say 'Jeremy H (as Owner)', to make it obvious that was speaking with authority, not just another member.
Definitely; that was "No. 2" in my message #16576 in April 2018.

Actually I think there is an (perhaps minor) issue with Display Names, but that's for another topic, perhaps over the weekend.

Chris


moderated Re: Cannot reply from +owner address #suggestion

Jeremy H
 

I agree with Andy that there should be separate +moderator address for moderators (who aren't owners); and would also suggest that use of these (+moderator and +owner) addresses should be controlled by seperate (one for each) moderator privileges.

But will also agree with Marv and Bruce that this would be an extra (and probably much less trivial) change, which will also have implications on the way that at least some groups run themselves; and so should be raised and discussed as such.

Jeremy


moderated Re: Cannot reply from +owner address #suggestion

Jeremy H
 

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 10:21 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
Excellent; many thanks for that.

Chris

 Yes, many thanks.

But something which would make it much better would to amend the 'display name' to make it clear that it was from the owner (e-mail - both on reply, and any initial post) - perhaps by adding '(as Owner)' or similar after normal name - so, e.g. (for me) it would say 'Jeremy H (as Owner)', to make it obvious that was speaking with authority, not just another member.

Jeremy


moderated Re: Member unsuscribed (again) #suggestion

Peter Cook
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 04:27 PM, Jim Fisher wrote:
unsubscribed in this way that meant from
every group they belonged to
It's only from the group whose message was marked as spam.


moderated Member unsuscribed (again) #suggestion

 

One of my members was unsubscribed for marking a message as spam, thanks to
clicking a wrong link. However, he sent the notification to resume subscription
to me, asking me to reinstate him. This meant that, for the first time, I
actually saw the whole of one of these messages.

1. Like me and many others, the member reads emails in plain text. In the plain
text version the words "Resume subscription" are not linkified, so there is no
obvious way to do what is required. Can we incorporate the full URL into the
plain text version of that message please? Most email clients will linkify it,
and even for those that don't it can then be copy/pasted into a browser.

2. When I switched to reading the message in HTML I could of course see the
link. I was pleasantly surprised to find that clicking on it reinstated him
immediately, which suited my purpose fine. However, I found it meant I was then
logged in to his account. That's no problem for me, but it might bother some
that this is possible.

3. I thought that when someone was unsubscribed in this way that meant from
every group they belonged to. Maybe I've got that wqrong, but if I haven't then
the wording of the message gives a wrong impression because it says "You will
receive no more emails from that group", rather than from any Groups.io group.

Jim Fisher


moderated Re: Cannot reply from +owner address #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 05:00 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I wonder what impact it might have on any Moderators who have had a member-management or message moderation function delegated to them.
Bruce, regardless of any member management permissions a Moderator has, unless they have a membership role of Owner, they are not an owner and sending emails as though they are is fundamentally wrong. The fact that Moderators can alter their own settings to choose whether or not to receive +owner emails just compounds the issue.
The change recently implemented only extends that same behavior to replies.
I don't see how extending the problem really helps. If you want someone to send an email as an owner, make them an owner.  If you want a moderator to be able to send messages or replies other than from their own account, have a +moderator address.

Andy


moderated Re: Following a new topic sends out catch-up emails with missing group [Subject Tag] #bug

Christos G. Psarras
 

Just an update since that time, the problem still persists.

Cheers,
Christos

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