Date   

moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

 

And to add to that (as I've mentioned in the past): If and when possible, tailor each moderator's view of the activity log to match their permissions. (You could further restrict the view to their chosen notifications, but I would stick to limiting it to the permissions. That way they could still view actions in the log that they did not elect to receive notifications for.)


On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:26 PM J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I personally love the hashtag idea for this (but am not saying that you should not provide the ability for turning them off for people who don't want them).

However, I want to push here again to make notification options match permissions, even though it's somewhat of a separate issue.  For example, don't provide a #pendingsub notification option to a moderator who does not have permission to approve new members; don't provide a #pendingmessage notification option to a moderator who does not have permission to approve messages; etc. Currently, it looks like I can check those boxes in groups where I am a moderator but have limited permissions, and not those.

(Related to this, but not a notification in the strict sense, are owner messages. I can turn those on or off in any group in which I'm a moderator, but I think those should be considered permissions issued by the owner, or by a mod with permission to grant the permissions, with notification options to go along with them - in other words, as a "low-level" mod in any group I can elect to receive or not to receive owner messages, but I think that should be my choice only if I have the corresponding permission.)

In general, I want notification options to be limited to permissions.

I would also like to see a list of what will constitute a notification. Do you have any handle yet on what will be the complete list of options? Because there have been a lot of new ones requested over a span of years. In addition to files, photos, and database uploads or edits, I would like to have a notification option for the modification of a wiki page, for example.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

 

I personally love the hashtag idea for this (but am not saying that you should not provide the ability for turning them off for people who don't want them).

However, I want to push here again to make notification options match permissions, even though it's somewhat of a separate issue.  For example, don't provide a #pendingsub notification option to a moderator who does not have permission to approve new members; don't provide a #pendingmessage notification option to a moderator who does not have permission to approve messages; etc. Currently, it looks like I can check those boxes in groups where I am a moderator but have limited permissions, and not those.

(Related to this, but not a notification in the strict sense, are owner messages. I can turn those on or off in any group in which I'm a moderator, but I think those should be considered permissions issued by the owner, or by a mod with permission to grant the permissions, with notification options to go along with them - in other words, as a "low-level" mod in any group I can elect to receive or not to receive owner messages, but I think that should be my choice only if I have the corresponding permission.)

In general, I want notification options to be limited to permissions.

I would also like to see a list of what will constitute a notification. Do you have any handle yet on what will be the complete list of options? Because there have been a lot of new ones requested over a span of years. In addition to files, photos, and database uploads or edits, I would like to have a notification option for the modification of a wiki page, for example.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

Bruce Bowman
 

Like many, I wasn't enamored with hashtags when I started out using groups.io. They seemed pretty superfluous.

But as I looked into them further, I came to realize that they are a very powerful feature that allows us to customize the behavior of our groups in a manner that cannot be achieved in any other way.

  • Are people receiving digests or daily summaries not getting their calendar reminders in a timely fashion? Set the Special flag on the the #cal-reminder hashtag and they go out immediately.
  • Don't want old group guidelines cluttering the message archive? Set the #guidelines topic duration to one month and after that, they disappear like magic.
  • Don't want chat notifications to go out as emails? Set the "no email" flag on the #chat hashtag.
  • Don't want regular subscribers sending administrative notices? Set up an #admin hashtag that's usable only by moderators.
  • Want to initiate a polarizing discussion and moderate the responses? Add a hashtag with the "moderate" flag set.
  • Want to force people to reply directly to you, overriding the group setting? Set up a hashtag with "reply only to sender" and groups.io will block attempts to do otherwise.
I do understand why folks wouldn't want their group to become a hashtag-fest...I don't either...but you don't have to let subscribers create them.

Oh well. I'm running out of steam, and not entirely sure where I was going with this. I guess I'll close with the suggestion that those who are looking for a listserv-type experience could just turn off the calendar, polls, and chats. 

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options" #bug

 

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 2:04 PM Jim Avera <jim.avera@...> wrote:

I hate to bug you but is a fix for this coming soon?

We've had to stop allowing direct (un-moderated) by anyone because many mail readers present "reply to list" as the default action, and the resulting junk messages have caused a few members to un-subscribe in disgust. 


I would like to get a better idea of how serious this issue is. Which email clients do this? 

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options" #bug

Jim Avera
 

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 07:40 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
If your members are doing something 'wrong' out of habit, isn't a bit of education required?
Sigh.  Trying to improve everyone else's habits is a fool's errand, and rarely worth the social cost.

GIO's "Remove other Reply Options" would obviate the issue, but doesn't work because hidden headers make MUAs put those undesired reply options back in.  

This is a software problem which can be fixed; fixing people is much harder.


moderated Google Drive Integration #bug

Kevin Utzy
 

One of the features I had planned on using when using Groups.io was the Google Drive integration.  This would allow us to integrate the files we have on our Website with Groups.io.  However there is a noticed that there was a message referring to the fact that Google had changed their API.  I asked the managers forum and was informed that has been down for about a year.  Obviously I was very disappointed and I don't want to take back to our membership.If they changed their API, though not technical in this area, but I know should be something that could be fixed.  

I was wondering if there plans for fix this integration or is their any other ability to integrate with Google drive or even a WordPress based website?

Thank you.

Kevin Utzy



moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

Glenn Glazer
 

On 5/18/2020 13:42, Mark Fletcher wrote:
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 1:28 PM Dave Sergeant <dave@...> wrote:
Can we optionally turn these off? For many of us hashtags are just
superfluous fluff at the end of message subjects. I can filter things
with my email filters, I don't need hashtags as well.

There are currently no plans to add the ability to turn off hashtags.

Mark 

Understood, but if there are plans, please count this as another vote for turning off hashtags.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com


moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

Donald Hellen
 

Mark . . .

On Mon, 18 May 2020 13:20:06 -0700, "Mark Fletcher"
<markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


- Every notification gets a hashtag. This is already the case with #cal-invite and a few others, but, for example, the moderator notifications don't currently have associated hashtags.
- Users have been able to mute hashtags since the beginning, which means no email. Now, also make it so that users can check a box to turn a hashtag into a web/app notification.
I don't know what the fascination is with hashtags, but let's not
force it upon everyone just because some people like them. If I
misunderstood your post and it's an optional opt-in sort of thing,
then I doubt my members (many older ones) would have any problems if
it doesn't happen in their groups.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM
https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp


moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

Steph Mathews
 

No hashtags please?  Thanks!

 

Have a blessed day!  Steph

 

From: Mark Fletcher
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 3:20 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] New notifications proposal #misc

 

Hi All,

I've started working on notifications again. I had not been very happy with my last proposal, from before the Yahoo Groups apocalypse. I think I've come up with a better solution. Please let me know what you think of this:

  • Every notification gets a hashtag. This is already the case with #cal-invite and a few others, but, for example, the moderator notifications don't currently have associated hashtags.
  • Users have been able to mute hashtags since the beginning, which means no email. Now, also make it so that users can check a box to turn a hashtag into a web/app notification.

So, walking through a few examples:

  • Pending subscriber notification. It's currently an email sent to individual moderators, controlled by an option on your subscription. It gets a hashtag, say #pendingsub. Now, moderators can mute that and/or turn it into a web/app notification (and the option on your subscription goes away).
  • Calendar invites. They have the hashtag #cal-invite, and the emails are sent to the group. People can mute those, and now they can also turn them into a notification. The invites still get sent to the group and still appear in the archives and people can still reply to them.
  • Chat messages. These don't currently have any notifications. So, a new hashtag would (perhaps) be #chatmsgs. It would be an email sent to people who are subscribed to a chat and who are not currently logged into the chat when the message was sent. People could instead/in addition to turn it into a notification.

This has an advantage that people could now get notifications on any group hashtag as well.

I would modify the existing Hashtags group sidebar to add the ability to turn on/off notifications.

Some notes:

  • As I add additional group notifications (like some database/file/photo changes that people have been asking for), that means more notifications will appear in the group archives.
  • I haven't thought about whether we'd need some sort of aggregation option.
  • I haven't thought about how to decide what appears in the new Notifications feed.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks, Mark

 


moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

Robert Oshel
 

I agree with Dave.  Let us avoid hashtags if we don't want them.

  Bob


On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 4:28 PM Dave Sergeant <dave@...> wrote:
Can we optionally turn these off? For many of us hashtags are just
superfluous fluff at the end of message subjects. I can filter things
with my email filters, I don't need hashtags as well.

Dave

On 18 May 2020 at 13:20, Mark Fletcher wrote:

> - Every notification gets a hashtag.


http://davesergeant.com





moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

 

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 1:28 PM Dave Sergeant <dave@...> wrote:
Can we optionally turn these off? For many of us hashtags are just
superfluous fluff at the end of message subjects. I can filter things
with my email filters, I don't need hashtags as well.

There are currently no plans to add the ability to turn off hashtags.

Mark 


moderated Re: New notifications proposal #misc

Dave Sergeant
 

Can we optionally turn these off? For many of us hashtags are just
superfluous fluff at the end of message subjects. I can filter things
with my email filters, I don't need hashtags as well.

Dave

On 18 May 2020 at 13:20, Mark Fletcher wrote:

- Every notification gets a hashtag.

http://davesergeant.com


moderated New notifications proposal #misc

 

Hi All,

I've started working on notifications again. I had not been very happy with my last proposal, from before the Yahoo Groups apocalypse. I think I've come up with a better solution. Please let me know what you think of this:

  • Every notification gets a hashtag. This is already the case with #cal-invite and a few others, but, for example, the moderator notifications don't currently have associated hashtags.
  • Users have been able to mute hashtags since the beginning, which means no email. Now, also make it so that users can check a box to turn a hashtag into a web/app notification.

So, walking through a few examples:

  • Pending subscriber notification. It's currently an email sent to individual moderators, controlled by an option on your subscription. It gets a hashtag, say #pendingsub. Now, moderators can mute that and/or turn it into a web/app notification (and the option on your subscription goes away).
  • Calendar invites. They have the hashtag #cal-invite, and the emails are sent to the group. People can mute those, and now they can also turn them into a notification. The invites still get sent to the group and still appear in the archives and people can still reply to them.
  • Chat messages. These don't currently have any notifications. So, a new hashtag would (perhaps) be #chatmsgs. It would be an email sent to people who are subscribed to a chat and who are not currently logged into the chat when the message was sent. People could instead/in addition to turn it into a notification.

This has an advantage that people could now get notifications on any group hashtag as well.

I would modify the existing Hashtags group sidebar to add the ability to turn on/off notifications.

Some notes:

  • As I add additional group notifications (like some database/file/photo changes that people have been asking for), that means more notifications will appear in the group archives.
  • I haven't thought about whether we'd need some sort of aggregation option.
  • I haven't thought about how to decide what appears in the new Notifications feed.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks, Mark


moderated Re: Database Row Ownership

jay@...
 

+1 very similar to the reasons I listed on #24698  


moderated Re: Formatting doesn't show headings in emails #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 03:41 PM, David Weintraub wrote:
This should be a heading
So the only thing that you have tried that doesn't work is headings if I follow your message correctly.  I've done some testing on my own test group and these markdown commands work fine for me

# Heading 1 
## Heading 2

Regards,
Andy


moderated Formatting doesn't show headings in emails #bug

David Weintraub
 

Maybe this is something I have set wrong in my group, but certain formatting doesn't show up in the resulting emails. Headings don't show up as headings, but plain text. I notice this in the Markdown editor.

This should be a heading

But it shows up as plain text in emails

Bold and italics works, but code doesn't.

I haven't tried this line as code, but we'll see if this shows up as code.

Lists do work, and so do sublists. I haven't tried tables.

I have a webpage, and several articles are mailed out per week using RSS integration. Plus, I put together a weekly bulletin. These really need the ability to see headings, quoted text, etc.


moderated Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options" #bug

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Jim,

On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 10:21 PM, Jim Avera wrote:
(That being said, always putting "via Groups.io" in the From username sounds like a good idea.)

"via Groups.io" is added when the headers have to be rewritten due to DMARC requirements so it signifies that something specific has happened not just as an eye-catcher.

Referring back to your first message:

we can avoid spam from people who wrongly "reply to all" (as many are wont to do by habit),

If your members are doing something 'wrong' out of habit, isn't a bit of education required?

Andy

 


moderated Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options" #bug

Jim Avera
 

For us, the problem is so severe that we would rather loose iron-clad traceability in order to completely disable "reply to list".

The [grouptag] prefix on the Subject: line is enough for humans to know a message originated from the list, and in the unlikely event of malicious messages we could see what is happening by looking at the raw headers.

(That being said, always putting "via Groups.io" in the From username sounds like a good idea.)


moderated Re: Database Row Ownership

Mike S <mikethebiguy@...>
 

+1 to this. We have a membership database and the information is initially entered by our moderators before the new member is added. This means our moderators will also have to make any updates to the database.

Being able to transfer ownership to the member would remove an obstacle for our members and make the database more reliable.


moderated Re: Messages contain CC:group even with ReplyTo=sender and "Remove other options" #bug

Jeremy H
 

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 11:47 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 05:10 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Now, to what I think you're asking: is there a way to disable Reply All in email clients. I think the answer is yes, if I re-write the To line in messages so that, instead of being the group email address, the To line is the recipient of the email message. Then the group email address would not appear anywhere in the message headers and Reply All would not send the message to the group. But, I think this would make it very difficult for someone to determine if a message they received was sent to them via the group or just by someone replying to a message the person originally sent to the group. I think this would be confusing. Thoughts?
Being able to determine that a message came from the group rather than direct from another person can give a level of confidence in the authenticity of the message and I would not want to lose that.

Andy
and the 'via Groups.io' that (currently) sometimes appears in the 'From' field achieves that: I would suggest that it always should.

Jeremy