Date   

moderated "view group as non-member" #suggestion

 

I sometimes go to a browser where I'm not logged in so that I can see the home page as non-members see it. Would it be possible to add a "view as" button to make that easier?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

J,

        We're now talking past each other.  Note in my previous message I said "when I was doing the little bit of interaction by e-mail that I've done."  I was informed that I'd tried to add to a locked thread by e-mail.

        I simply do not see what you see as a problem as a problem.  One would have to be, quite literally, as dumb as a rock to receive a bounce message due to a locked thread and not know how to proceed next, if one wants/needs to have something seen and you know it wasn't because you tried to send it to a locked thread.  I do not believe that members need to be "cared for." They can figure out this sort of thing, which is part and parcel of the e-mail interaction method, for themselves and should be expected to do so.  It is a basic skill.

        This is not rocket science, and anyone who's ever been on an e-mailing list should either know about this or easily figure it out.

--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

 

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 04:58 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
if I know that I have something that I want seen and a thread has been locked,

Brian,

The point is in that phrase "if I know...a thread has been locked." You have said before that you only interact with Groups.io via the web. If you interact via the web, you will know that the thread has been locked and act accordingly (i.e., either give up, or start a new thread, or possibly contact the moderator offlist - whatever). I'm repeating myself now (and will stop after this last attempt), but In 100% of the cases in our group where the system logged an attempt to post to a locked thread, the member was unaware before posting that the thread had been locked. They are always (logically, because there's no other way they can even make the attempt) posting via email. The email they are responding to cannot (logically) inform them that the thread has been locked. They only find out after their email bounces. Sometimes (often) they try multiple times. They are clearly trying to send what they feel is an important message to the group, and I would like to see it. End of story.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

J,

          I have actually tried to post to a thread that was locked when I was doing the little bit of interaction by e-mail that I've done.  My counterargument to your counterargument is when that occurred [and in these cases I was not in rant for ranting's sake mode, but had something I thought of value to add], I simply started a new thread.

          This has not been a one time occurrence, though it's not been frequent, either.  If I know that I have something that I want seen and a thread has been locked, and what I will be saying is not an attempt to keep a locked topic going, my first impulse is to start a new thread.  This happens all the time, and if someone desperately needs assistance or advice of some sort I have no doubt that they can and will ask for it.  Members generally recognize who "the problem children" are on threads that are locked and those not in that group generally know what to do next.

           Members have to learn how to interact based on their chosen interaction method.  What you describe is not, in my opinion, a moderator's job to resolve, but a member's.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


moderated Re: clarification on the new member notification system

 

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
I'm having a similar situation.  If I change any of the existing Default messages, all the others lose their Default insignia and can't be set via an edit.  It does set the one I'm trying for, but that goes away when I set another.  Actually, all I have to do is go into edit mode for any notice and save it without making any changes to create the problem.  As long as I only edit a backup notice, everything is okay, unless I make it the Default.  Adding a new notice to any category brings them back.  I can then delete the new notice I created and all is still well.


This should be fixed now.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

 

The only counterargument I can see to this is that the person went online, saw that the topic was locked, and tried to subvert the locking via an email message. But (1) the logged attempts to post to a locked topic in our group have been 100% by people who always use only email, and (2) in the unlikely (IMO) event that they tried to subvert the locking by replying via email, that is just more evidence that they intended their post to see the light of day.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Add ability to report or flag a post #suggestion

 

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

I clicked on the Subscrption link in the left menu for one of my groups and received the error:
"template: editsub.html:225:83: executing "editsub.html" at <.Member.MessageRepor...>: can't evaluate field Member in type main.Data"

Oops. Fixed!

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

 

Brian,

Of course it's not personal!  But I don't think you understood my point. 

People who attempt to respond to locked topics, and whose attempts are logged, LOGICALLY cannot know before sending the message that the topic is locked. (1) The fact that it's locked shows up only onl list, where there is no reply button that even allows the attempt.

 (2) Therefore, they must be responding via email.

 (3) The email they are responding to cannot show that the topic is locked. The person finds out it was locked only after their messages bounces. 

Therefore (5) their message WAS meant for public consumption. Logically, It  bears zero resemblance to a letter that they intended to, or even could have, torn up. 

And I believe  that therefore, the moderator should be entitled to see what it was.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

J,

        What we have here, just as we had on the "Ignore User" thread, is a profound philosophical difference that is unlikely to ever be settled.

        You and I have corresponded via e-mail off-list on many occasions, and I think that, insofar as "letters" and letters of a limited topic range allow, I "know" you.  But I do not know you in the same way that I know people that I interact with in person and repeatedly in any in-real-life contexts.  There are just too many elements of human communication that cannot be effectively captured by the written word.

         I do not know you like I know people who I have literally had in my home, which is why I reject even the analogy that any online group, private or public, is in any meaningful way like a group of people who meets in person, and particularly that meets repeatedly in person over a given topic.  As a real life example, I've been participating in an Alzheimers Disease Support Group meeting for some time now because my mom has dementia.  I've only met some of the members fewer times than we've interacted electronically here or via e-mail.  Yet, in a number of ways that are very significant in my estimation, there are things I actually believe I know about them that I know that I do not know about you because there are elements of body language, facial expression, eye-gaze, and more that can never be captured in venues where things are not occurring face to face and person to person.

         No matter how much and how often you have interacted with the folks in your group (and, I hasten to add, this is a general point and not aimed specifically at you) that is not the same, or even close to the same, as doing so in person.  People have been known to write letters and tear them up, which they do simply to allow themselves to vent.  I have actually, on rare occasion [yes, it is rare], composed some full blown rants to get something off my chest that I knew from the first key press were never meant to be seen by anyone else and would never be sent.  I believe that kind of activity may be more common than even I imagine and, when it does occur, it is absolutely no one's business to know that it has occurred because not only is it not for public consumption, but if an attempt were made to make it so you (or any moderator) have already exercised the power to make that attempt fail.  It is my opinion that this is all that you, or any moderator, have any right to know.

         I am happy to agree to disagree on this.  I simply wanted to explain in a bit more detail what my feelings are and why they are.  None of this is in any way, shape, or form personal.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Add ability to report or flag a post #suggestion

Duane
 

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:07 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:


Let me know if you have any questions or see anything weird.
I clicked on the Subscrption link in the left menu for one of my groups and received the error:
"template: editsub.html:225:83: executing "editsub.html" at <.Member.MessageRepor...>: can't evaluate field Member in type main.Data"

Going into the membership list and changing it from there worked fine.

Duane


moderated Owner replies #suggestion

Duane
 

It would be convenient if, when replying to a +owner message on site, the post could be quoted. Even having the function as found when replying to a normal post on site, highlight to include, would be welcome.

As has been mentioned before, I also feel outgoing owner messages should be logged, preferably as part of the +owner Messages tab for each member.

Duane


locked Re: Add ability to report or flag a post #suggestion

 

Hi All,

I've just added the ability to flag messages, photos and files. It works similarly to Yahoo's report function. For messages, the report option is under the More menu. For photos, the report button is when you view an individual file, and for files, the report button is when viewing the files list. There's also a new notification checkbox for moderators to specify if they wish to receive these reports. 

Let me know if you have any questions or see anything weird.

Thanks,
Mark

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Just so people can see an example of this, that I think is well-implemented, here is a screen shot of one of my posts (with the report link highlighted) and the actual dialog that comes up after you click it.   I use this feature on a frequent basis to alert moderators of topics that have landed in the wrong forum that would get much better traction if relocated to the appropriate one.  This lets them use the move function to slide them where they belong.  One really nice feature of that, under that forum software, is that a place holder remains in the original forum, with an arrow showing, and if you click on it any reading/responding will occur on the relocated thread.


--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray



locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

J,

        What we have here, just as we had on the "Ignore User" thread, is a profound philosophical difference that is unlikely to ever be settled.

        You and I have corresponded via e-mail off-list on many occasions, and I think that, insofar as "letters" and letters of a limited topic range allow, I "know" you.  But I do not know you in the same way that I know people that I interact with in person and repeatedly in any in-real-life contexts.  There are just too many elements of human communication that cannot be effectively captured by the written word.

         I do not know you like I know people who I have literally had in my home, which is why I reject even the analogy that any online group, private or public, is in any meaningful way like a group of people who meets in person, and particularly that meets repeatedly in person over a given topic.  As a real life example, I've been participating in an Alzheimers Disease Support Group meeting for some time now because my mom has dementia.  I've only met some of the members fewer times than we've interacted electronically here or via e-mail.  Yet, in a number of ways that are very significant in my estimation, there are things I actually believe I know about them that I know that I do not know about you because there are elements of body language, facial expression, eye-gaze, and more that can never be captured in venues where things are not occurring face to face and person to person.

         No matter how much and how often you have interacted with the folks in your group (and, I hasten to add, this is a general point and not aimed specifically at you) that is not the same, or even close to the same, as doing so in person.  People have been known to write letters and tear them up, which they do simply to allow themselves to vent.  I have actually, on rare occasion [yes, it is rare], composed some full blown rants to get something off my chest that I knew from the first key press were never meant to be seen by anyone else and would never be sent.  I believe that kind of activity may be more common than even I imagine and, when it does occur, it is absolutely no one's business to know that it has occurred because not only is it not for public consumption, but if an attempt were made to make it so you (or any moderator) have already exercised the power to make that attempt fail.  It is my opinion that this is all that you, or any moderator, have any right to know.

         I am happy to agree to disagree on this.  I simply wanted to explain in a bit more detail what my feelings are and why they are.  None of this is in any way, shape, or form personal.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

 

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 09:13 am, J_Catlady wrote:
that they didn't intend anyone to sir

typo - that they didn't intend anyone to see 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

 

I agree that the logged attempt by itself, sans any real information, is worse than nothing at all. But Mark has said that it would be technically difficult to save the attempted message, and I believe, based on his response here, that that's the only reason he has not done it.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

And I think that the logged attempt is too much.

You, or any other moderator, does not need to know about that which cannot ever be seen.  This is probably why the original was simply a logged as an attempt.

You have the right to exercise control over what actually appears or can get through.  You do not have, nor should you have, that right on what can't.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

And I think that the logged attempt is too much.

You, or any other moderator, does not need to know about that which cannot ever be seen.  This is probably why the original was simply a logged as an attempt.

You have the right to exercise control over what actually appears or can get through.  You do not have, nor should you have, that right on what can't.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Add ability to report or flag a post #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Just so people can see an example of this, that I think is well-implemented, here is a screen shot of one of my posts (with the report link highlighted) and the actual dialog that comes up after you click it.   I use this feature on a frequent basis to alert moderators of topics that have landed in the wrong forum that would get much better traction if relocated to the appropriate one.  This lets them use the move function to slide them where they belong.  One really nice feature of that, under that forum software, is that a place holder remains in the original forum, with an arrow showing, and if you click on it any reading/responding will occur on the relocated thread.


--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

 

Furthermore, the system does log the attempt itself, without any information about it. All that does  is raise questions.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2016, at 9:12 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Brian,

They can't do it as a rant that they didn't intend anyone to sir. They can only do it via email because there's no reply button onlist. When they try via email they have no idea a priori that the topic is locked. They find out only after their message bounces. 

If they had, e.g., a legitimate veterinary question (in the case of our group) related to the thread, I would like the opportunity to answer them privately. If they do have a rant, I would like to know what it is (without subjecting the rest of the membership to it) so that I can take it into consideration. Etc.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Personally, I find that idea positively creepy.

Once a thread is locked it's locked (unless a moderator unlocks it).  No one can post to it.  Someone might go through the exercise of writing some sort of response as a private rant, knowing it can't ever go live.  I can see no reason whatsoever for this degree of oversight, ever.  The locking of the thread achieves the desired goal.

[Also, what happens in the circumstance that someone was composing something and the thread is locked before the composition is complete?  They would not have been, in any meaningful sense, trying to post to a locked thread.]
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

 

Brian,

They can't do it as a rant that they didn't intend anyone to sir. They can only do it via email because there's no reply button onlist. When they try via email they have no idea a priori that the topic is locked. They find out only after their message bounces. 

If they had, e.g., a legitimate veterinary question (in the case of our group) related to the thread, I would like the opportunity to answer them privately. If they do have a rant, I would like to know what it is (without subjecting the rest of the membership to it) so that I can take it into consideration. Etc.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Personally, I find that idea positively creepy.

Once a thread is locked it's locked (unless a moderator unlocks it).  No one can post to it.  Someone might go through the exercise of writing some sort of response as a private rant, knowing it can't ever go live.  I can see no reason whatsoever for this degree of oversight, ever.  The locking of the thread achieves the desired goal.

[Also, what happens in the circumstance that someone was composing something and the thread is locked before the composition is complete?  They would not have been, in any meaningful sense, trying to post to a locked thread.]
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: ability to post a message online but not send email #suggestion

Duane
 

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 09:24 pm, Jujube wrote:


could there be an option to send notifications to an email address
One of the options when creating a hashtag is that only moderators can use it. That should eliminate the need for notification. Unless you mean notifying all members instead of sending the actual message.

Duane


locked Re: ability for moderators to see attempted messages to locked topic #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Personally, I find that idea positively creepy.

Once a thread is locked it's locked (unless a moderator unlocks it).  No one can post to it.  Someone might go through the exercise of writing some sort of response as a private rant, knowing it can't ever go live.  I can see no reason whatsoever for this degree of oversight, ever.  The locking of the thread achieves the desired goal.

[Also, what happens in the circumstance that someone was composing something and the thread is locked before the composition is complete?  They would not have been, in any meaningful sense, trying to post to a locked thread.]
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray

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