Date   

moderated Re: Email delay bug is back #bug

Malcolm Austen
 

On Tue, 11 May 2021 16:10:35 +0100, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

Messages that post immediately on site are taking about five minutes to come through email this morning. Same with pending message notifications.
Regardless of the effect of polling frequency in your mail client, I don't think anyone should ever see a 5 minute delay on an email as a bug! Grey-listing can easily account for such a delay, as can any number of other routine SMTP occurrences.

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@weald.org.uk


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

I didn't miss anything.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 05:33 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The feature is asked for by almost every new member, has been begged and pleaded for for years, and its lack is always inexplicable to people.
I think you missed the bit in my earlier post when I stated Again I find myself having some sympathy for this request...

I am not arguing against the request, merely pointing out that it is not a cure for all known diseases.

Chris


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

Duane
 

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 10:54 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I don’t believe group members tend to lie about not having received a message.
But a lot of members don't check their spam/junk folder, so wouldn't be lying, just uninformed.

Duane


moderated Re: Email delay bug is back #bug

 

Mine usually appear instantaneously.


On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 9:31 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 10:23 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Messages that post immediately on site are taking about five minutes to come through email this morning
How often do you have your client set to check email?  Mine is set for 13 minutes, so the delay could be that long before it would come in.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

This is a message from you, Chris, in 2018, on GMF (emphasis added).
Title: "Possible Missing Activity"

I had the need to send a message to a member before either releasing or rejecting a message from him in moderation.
I know the message I sent him was sent because I checked the "bcc Moderators" box and received a copy of it. However, that "activity" does not appear in the log and I can find no category in the list of activities that covers it.
Can anyone confirm (or otherwise) that this action is one that for whatever reason is not logged?
Chris

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/11366


And here are a few more. Easy to find: just search on the ubiquitously suggested workaround, "bcc":

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/78841674

"I don't see a record of these direct emails under Admin->Activity.
Are these messages logged anywhere??"

 

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/75147275

"These don't show up in Activity for some reason, which maybe is a good suggestion for Beta"

 

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/64415660

"When using the "Send message" function to email a member about a pending post, is the message saved somewhere? I have looked but can't find them."

 

And on and on they go, back to the beginnings of time. It has almost become a hazing ritual for new members! They need to be put in their place, informed that the messags are not logged and and told to "just use bcc"!

 

 I didn't bother to search beta but the request has been ongoing here, as well. I know because I've participated in them. (I'm not in GMF but I was sure new people had to be wondering why these messages were not logged, so I searched there. I was not wrong.)

The feature is asked for by almost every new member, has been begged and pleaded for for years, and its lack is always inexplicable to people.

I rest my case. :)

---

 

 

 





--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Email delay bug is back #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 10:23 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Messages that post immediately on site are taking about five minutes to come through email this morning
How often do you have your client set to check email?  Mine is set for 13 minutes, so the delay could be that long before it would come in.

Duane


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

Proof of sending is all I’m asking for. “Sent member message to xyz.” As simple as logging a group message, and possibly even more important due to the sensitive nature of these messages, the group rule (at least in my group) that they must be responded to, etc. 

I don’t believe group members tend to lie about not having received a message. And the email delivery history can be of some help (if there have not been a lot of group messages in between or if the member is not set to Individual Messages).

I am just astounded that a request as simple, and as obviously useful, as this is getting such blowback. SMH.


On May 11, 2021, at 8:21 AM, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 03:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I have no way of knowing whether this was my fault (didn’t hit “send”?) or the system’s. 
 
Logging at *mimimum* the sending of these messages, if not their content as well (which would be preferable), is crucial.
Again I find myself having some sympathy for this request while at the same time realising that even if implemented it would provide no evidence whatsoever that the member concerned had received or read it.

Even if the message had been received and understood the member could still deny all knowledge of it and there would be nothing an owner or moderator could do to prove otherwise.

Proof of sending would not be proof of delivery.

Chris

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Email delay bug is back #bug

 

Messages that post immediately on site are taking about five minutes to come through email this morning. Same with pending message notifications.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 03:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I have no way of knowing whether this was my fault (didn’t hit “send”?) or the system’s. 
 
Logging at *mimimum* the sending of these messages, if not their content as well (which would be preferable), is crucial.
Again I find myself having some sympathy for this request while at the same time realising that even if implemented it would provide no evidence whatsoever that the member concerned had received or read it.

Even if the message had been received and understood the member could still deny all knowledge of it and there would be nothing an owner or moderator could do to prove otherwise.

Proof of sending would not be proof of delivery.

Chris


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

I finally emailed the member and asked whether she’d received a messsge from me. Very awkward. Sweated for a day snd a half because we have a group guideline saying members must respond to moderator messsges. Her reply just came back: “No I did not.”

I have no way of knowing whether this was my fault (didn’t hit “send”?) or the system’s. 

Logging at *mimimum* the sending of these messages, if not their content as well (which would be preferable), is crucial.


On May 10, 2021, at 8:51 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 08:46 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
nowhere to be found
nowhere to be found or even known whether it had been sent.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #suggestion Instant Down button #suggestion

Malcolm Austen
 

On Mon, 10 May 2021 16:09:25 +0100, A8 via groups.io <a8b7k57G@...> wrote:



The image above is a thing that appears at the bottom of a page. If you click it it moves your view of the messages to the top.
It is a very common thing in forums.

Another very common thing is that people with keyboards are unaware that the [HOME] button does this ...

Can we get one that scrolls one to the bottom, placed at the top of pages?

... and that the [END] button does that.

I rarely find that having the additional buttons on-screen gains anything for me.

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@...


moderated Re: Checkboxes in emailed photos section for bulk deletion of copies, unwanted pictures #suggestion

Pat Pratt
 

Tony and Jay, I agree, The ability to bulk delete would be great!!!!
--
Pat Pratt


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 08:46 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
nowhere to be found
nowhere to be found or even known whether it had been sent.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

Because I finally had the last straw? The situation was really egregious this morning, the infamous worst-case scenario that I always worried might happen because of the no logging. It happened. It was a very sensitive message to a group member and it was nowhere to be found.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Checkboxes in emailed photos section for bulk deletion of copies, unwanted pictures #suggestion

Jay Elvove
 

As the person (I think) who initiated this thread most recently, I'll weigh in as well.  I'm a champion of groups.io, and I manage several groups of various sizes (paid and unpaid), but I was surprised to discover that there is virtually no bulk processing capability for working with directories and files (which, of course, includes photos), something that's been available on even the most rudimentary operating systems pretty much since their inception.  Bulk uploading is available, and it would be great to be able to bulk download, delete, and move items, perhaps, print or copy them as well.  I'm fairly certain that there's an underlying filesystem that can be accessed on the backend by groups.io support.  It would be great if owners and moderators (and, perhaps, regular users) could have at least rudimentary access to it as well.  I've seen requests for this feature in the forums often.  Perhaps, there's more to implementing this feature than I realize, but even if that's the case, I'd like to know from an official source if it's at least something in the pipeline.  And as there seems not to be a way to do this now, please let me know how I can get help deleting the hundreds of signature files that are cluttering up our "Emailed Photos" folder.

Thanks very much,

Jay


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 07:53 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
the situation is dire (yes, it is dire! I am not exaggerating!)
It's always been this way so what has changed to suddenly make this so dire?  While I agree it would be nice, it doesn't prevent the application working so it's not exactly a showstopper.

Andy


moderated #suggestion Instant Down button #suggestion

A8
 



The image above is a thing that appears at the bottom of a page. If you click it it moves your view of the messages to the top.
It is a very common thing in forums.

Can we get one that scrolls one to the bottom, placed at the top of pages?
Also, what are these called/named?


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

Exactly right! And this has gone on for as long as I’ve been in groups.io and beta - more than six years? That’s how long many of us have been begging for this.

 In the beginning, it was promised by Mark as part of the “upcoming notification overhaul.’ And so when anyone else asked for it, for years I’d tell them it was coming, and in the meantime to use bcc. But since then, nothing but  radio silence.

The bcc workaround is subject to human error. “Did I just forget to bcc myself?” “How can I find out what really happened and whether the message was sung at all? Check the log? Oh, wait, there’s never a log of this.”

If is incredibly frustrating, and the more so due to how long this lack  has existed. 

And please, don’t anyone suggest the workaround of messaging the member to ask whether they got the message.:-) Even doing so nit through groups.io is not going to work. Mods don’t want to have to PM a member to ask things like. “Excuse me, but did you happen to get my message this morning telling yoj yourd now on moderation?”






On May 10, 2021, at 12:53 PM, Dan Tucker - FireTuck <antiquetuck@...> wrote:



I can’t say that I disagree with J_ on this one. I’ve used the BCC: method for lots of things also but there’s NOTHING like having a first-hand, built-in logging for all messages. (period)

 

Workarounds – we all have them – are JUST THAT. They’re individualized solutions to what is usually a common problem. Since many are duplicated or redundant, it’s proven by fact that they’re justified. If “everybody does it” then it just seems right that nobody should have to do it – it should be done at the developer level.

 

Just sayin’

 

Dan Tucker, Groups.io  AFDRetiree’s Group Founder/Owner/Moderator

 

From: "main@beta.groups.io" <main@beta.groups.io> on behalf of J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...>
Reply-To: "main@beta.groups.io" <main@beta.groups.io>
Date: Monday, May 10, 2021 at 11:27 AM
To: "main@beta.groups.io" <main@beta.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [beta] "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion

 

And preferably, the text of the message should also be recorded/preserved, as with the text for a rejected message, invitations, etc.

 

 This has become a very severe lack at this point.



On May 10, 2021, at 12:22 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Right, That’s always the answer to this (badly needed) suggestion. And when the bcc doesn’t come thru, you’re stuck wondering whether the bcc failed (you forgot to click the box?) or the message didn’t go thru at all. There absolutely, positively needs to be a record somewhere that the message happened, independent of the bcc.



On May 10, 2021, at 12:19 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 01:53 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

There is absolutely no record of messages to members by mods

There's always a record if you Bcc: yourself.  That's what I do, so really have no need for it to be logged.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion #fixed

 

I can’t say that I disagree with J_ on this one. I’ve used the BCC: method for lots of things also but there’s NOTHING like having a first-hand, built-in logging for all messages. (period)

 

Workarounds – we all have them – are JUST THAT. They’re individualized solutions to what is usually a common problem. Since many are duplicated or redundant, it’s proven by fact that they’re justified. If “everybody does it” then it just seems right that nobody should have to do it – it should be done at the developer level.

 

Just sayin’

 

Dan Tucker, Groups.io  AFDRetiree’s Group Founder/Owner/Moderator

 

From: "main@beta.groups.io" <main@beta.groups.io> on behalf of J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...>
Reply-To: "main@beta.groups.io" <main@beta.groups.io>
Date: Monday, May 10, 2021 at 11:27 AM
To: "main@beta.groups.io" <main@beta.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [beta] "member message" urgently needs logging #suggestion

 

And preferably, the text of the message should also be recorded/preserved, as with the text for a rejected message, invitations, etc.

 

 This has become a very severe lack at this point.



On May 10, 2021, at 12:22 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Right, That’s always the answer to this (badly needed) suggestion. And when the bcc doesn’t come thru, you’re stuck wondering whether the bcc failed (you forgot to click the box?) or the message didn’t go thru at all. There absolutely, positively needs to be a record somewhere that the message happened, independent of the bcc.



On May 10, 2021, at 12:19 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 01:53 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

There is absolutely no record of messages to members by mods

There's always a record if you Bcc: yourself.  That's what I do, so really have no need for it to be logged.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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