Mark,

As a kind of cheat, I've often used the HTML <button> tag to get the appearance of a button (with no action) where I document keystrokes. As in "Press <button>Enter</button> to start a new line".

Inserting this in the Source code pop-up works, while one remains in the editor, but they get stripped out on save.

I don't know if there would be exploit hazards were you to leave them in; so this is a low-urgency suggestion rather than a bug report.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum

On 05/31/2017 08:53 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

but the writing was on the wall even before VFO bought both Freedom Scientific and AI Squared.

VFO bought Freedom Scientific? I didn't know that.
I'm still reeling from the purchase of GR Micro by AI Squared.
Window-Eyes support started going downhill then, into a geometrically
increasing dive towards zero.

because it is slated to have support discontinued in the foreseeable future

Foreseeable future being May 2017, according to the support person I
talked to yesterday.

This is why I was wondering if it was worth testing with Window-Eyes.

jonathon

Mark,

When using mouse hover over there is dead silence from NVDA and I often get "text" from JAWS, but nothing else, when hovering over the gavel, thumbs up, etc.

If I bring up the list of links on a page in JAWS, there is absolutely nothing read other than the topic's subject (which is, of course, what's the link itself).

There has got to be a way to make these indicators speak, but I'm wondering now about how this would be handled/handle-able when it comes to using elements or links lists in screen readers, since those icons are really not a part of the actual link to a message or topic itself.

Jonathan,

I've never taught myself enough Window Eyes to even try to test with it, but the writing was on the wall even before VFO bought both Freedom Scientific and AI Squared.  At this point I wouldn't test with Window Eyes because it is slated to have support discontinued in the foreseeable future and Window Eyes users would be wise to take the JAWS replacement and give NVDA a try, too.

On 05/26/2017 08:42 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Still nada on hover-over with mouse using NVDA or JAWS on the gavel icon. Dead silence.

Are you also testing things with Window-Eyes?
If not, given that Freedom Scientific murdered it in the dead of the
night, would it still be worthwhile to test for Window Eyes
compatibility/usability?

jonathon

[Beta] New card "Moderated icon does not appear in topic with tag set to moderated" was added to list "Bugs".

---

[Beta] The red label "Bug" was added to the card "Moderated icon does not appear in topic with tag set to moderated".

---

[Beta] The description of card "Moderated icon does not appear in topic with tag set to moderated" was changed to:

It turns out that the gavel icon doesn't appear in topics tagged with "moderated" tags, and "moderate topic" even appears in the topic dropdown, as if the topic wasn't already moderated.

This means group members are not aware of the moderation, and moderators might also be unaware and try to set the topic to "moderated."

---

But rather that remove "unmoderate topic" from the menu, I'd rather see its behavior modified to notify the user (moderator) that the topic is moderated due to a hashtag, which will be automatically removed if the user says ok to the dialog.

Hm... I suppose there might be more than one "moderate" hashtag on the topic. Details.

If that automatic removal is problematic then I'd still recommend leaving the "Unmoderate Topic" item in the menu, but just as a notice to the user that they'll have to remove the hashtag instead.

My thinking is that having the menu item disappear may be confusing and frustrating to a moderator that doesn't happen to remember the hashtag possibility.

---

Or, you could change the drop-down to include "remove moderated tag" instead of "unmoderate topic."

I am hearing reports (and I hope incorrect ones) that using things like the "Mute this Thread" link at the end of a message is causing some sort of prompting for visiting the website and logging in.

Is this correct?  If it is correct, why is this done?  If you can subscribe, unsubscribe, post, etc., without ever having a password I'd hope you could use any of the thread controls at the end of messages similarly.

If login is required, at least once, I will report this and post the process for getting yourself a password so that you can log in.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 

I second this, Mark. There are many who are not in the position to commit to a premium subscription, but would very much like to do our part (whatever it may be). Likewise, there are group owners who, for various reasons, are not comfortable in charging (whether assigned or donations) their members in order to foot a premium subscription - yet they too would like to support the business end of things.

Voluntary (and even anonymous, other than to you) donations to Groups.io would be something that I think more than a few owners would embrace.
Ginny

Impatient to start getting paid for the work I do supporting a couple of my groups.   The membership fees pay for all the benefits of belonging to the group, not just the Groups.io list-serv and website -- in other words, mostly my labor on administering the group, the content I provide, and events (mostly webinars) we plan and produce.   I have started using WuFoo to create on-line forms. (Dumb name, I agree -- but a good service).  They have several payment integrations.  One of them is Chargify, which allows one to set up and manage an array of "products" (each with its own billing options).   I was playing with it today.  I created a "test" subscription design for one of my Groups.io groups --I chose free 1 month trial period, $10 billed every three months, indefinitely.   Other options could have included a set-up charge, expiration date, etc.  Tomorrow I am going to set up a "product" for a webinar with different registration fees for different types of professionals.  My initial impression is that it is very good.   

Chargify is NOT a payment processor like PayPal -- you have to link it with one. I have pasted below the list of all of the current payment integration options for Wu-Foo subscribers -- they have vetted them for you!

Smiling,
Jennifer Christian
WFDRoundtable and other groups

• Stripe

  The Stripe integration lets you accept payments with your Wufoo form by redirecting users to Stripe.

• FreshBooks

  Invoice clients who complete your Wufoo form.

• Braintree

  Accept one-time payments with Braintree.

• PayPal Standard

  Process payments by redirecting users to PayPal.

• PayPal Payflow Pro

  Process international and domestic payments with PayPal.

• USA ePay

  Accept payments with USA ePay.

• PayPal Website Payments Pro

  Process large volumes of payments with PayPal.

• Stripe Subscription

  Accept recurring payments or subscriptions with Stripe.

Brian,

This is the only forum/mailing-list on which I participate that does
not have an "Ignore User" function, and I think that's a major lack
of an almost universal feature.

It is on the wish list (almost a year now):
https://trello.com/c/p0LGl6ml/38-ability-to-mute-and-or-follow-users

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum

On 27 May 2017, at 20:14, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe a separate main group for them is the better answer. It depends on what relationship this list of people has to the main list. If they're really not supposed to interact with the resources and other members of the main group, then the question is what advantage does putting the list into a subgroup hold, for you as moderator or for them?

That is, what led you to choose a subgroup for them in the first place? Asked as a simple question because I don't know the circumstances, not as a challenge nor as a criticism.

Thanks Shal,

I’ve reached that conclusion myself. Your question is certainly valid - as you say, I haven’t set out all the circumstances so I appreciate it might be difficult for others to take a view, but I appreciate the feedback so far.
We are a membership organisation with varying levels of membership with different sets of benefits. I had thought to set up fora for each of the membership groups under one over-arching platform, as some of them can have access to other discussions. For the two groups I have currently, it works well under one roof, so to speak. I think the best option for this third group, given the bigger difference in membership, is indeed to create a new main group, which I have done.

Thanks for all the input.

kind regards

Nick
__

dUNMUR | member of the Association of Photographers

http://www.nickdunmur.com
http://www.the-aop.org

Nick,

However, I wish to only allow posting and email to and from the
sub-group by these members which I can can control by setting their
main group flag to 'No email’ and ‘Not allowed to Post’.

You can prevent them from posting in the main group that way, but you can't stop them from reading its messages. They can do so either by visiting its archive (unless no one can) or by changing their own email delivery to something other than "No email".

... so, short of having to create a new main group, is there anything
else I can do to restrict the ‘welcome’ emails that get sent out?

Maybe a separate main group for them is the better answer. It depends on what relationship this list of people has to the main list. If they're really not supposed to interact with the resources and other members of the main group, then the question is what advantage does putting the list into a subgroup hold, for you as moderator or for them?

That is, what led you to choose a subgroup for them in the first place? Asked as a simple question because I don't know the circumstances, not as a challenge nor as a criticism.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 10:00 am, Nick Dunmur wrote:

the sub-group would never be an active part of the main group

The 'problem' with that is that anyone in the sub-group has to be a member of the main group and there's nothing to prevent them from posting there. You might want to put all of those in the sub-group on moderation for the main group, just in case?

Duane

I agree totally re not notifying people - that would be bad. My worry is that duplicate messages confuse and the sub-group would never be an active part of the main group

Kind regards

Nick

__

dUNMUR | Photographer

Member of the Association of Photographers

www.nickdunmur.com
www.the-aop.org

I don't think we want to go down the path of "Allow adding users to a group without notifying the users that they have been added to a group," but you could make a custom welcome message for the main group that says something like, "Ignore this message, the next one has the information you need" or some other explanatory text.

JohnF

Dear all,

On 25 May 2017 at 16:41, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Based on the feedback I received after I increased the price of the
premium plan a few weeks ago

Hi Mark,

I'm pretty sure I'm never going to be in a situation where I can pay for
premium. But could you give us a way to donate? Strictly voluntary, of
course, but it could be a secondary income stream.

--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. >>

Changes to the site this week:

• BUGFIX: Display lock/gavel for locked/moderated messages in the expanded message view.
• BUGFIX: Hashtags that are set as special are now forced to be moderator only.
• BUGFIX: Upgraded version of TinyMCE to fix a Firefox autolink problem.
• CHANGE: Reorganized the Settings page with help from J and Shal.
• NEW: New annual premium plan ($99/year).
• INTERNAL: Initial work on upgrading the search engine software and hiring of a consulting firm to help.
• NEW: Added 'Ynt:' as a signifier that a message is a reply (like Re:).
• UPDATE: Revamped Definitions and Hashtags sections of the Help page with J's new text.
• INTERNAL: Added another rel=nofollow to prevent some search engine duplicate crawling.
• CHANGE: The /manage URL is now /settings, to reflect the name of the page.
• CHANGE: Researched a case where Gmail decided a specific Groups.io /mt URL was a phishing URL and would display warnings when viewing any email with that link in it. To combat this, I changed all Groups.io mute/unmute/follow/unfollow links within emails to be unique to the individual receiving the message.
• BUGFIX: Fixed optimistic locking issue with the bouncer program.
• INTERNAL: Completed and rolled out changes to how we use sql savepoints in the database.
• CHANGE: All instances of the Summernote editor have been replaced by the TinyMCE editor, except editing wiki pages.
• CHANGE: Changed the display of poll results on mobile to be more clear.
• CHANGE: Rolled back the price increase on premium plans. Once again, it's $10/month.
• CHANGE: For 'Message to Member' group notices, don't have the option to set one as active, as that doesn't make sense.

Have a good weekend everybody.

Mark

Mark,

          Still nada on hover-over with mouse using NVDA or JAWS on the gavel icon.  Dead silence.

          It is also important that whatever technique you use for this will result in a verbalization if someone is traversing the page using a screen reader elements list, which would not show the icon, but should "know about its presence" even though it's not shown in an elements list.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's