Linda,

["View/Reply Online"] takes me to the first message in the topic:
... not the message to which I wish to respond.

That's odd. Sure you didn't click on "View All Messages In Topic" instead? (message footer left in below as example).

In formatted messages the URLs aren't exposed, but in those I don't see a link to the topic at all - only "View/Reply Online (#13915)" which is a link to the message.

If that's not working right for you, maybe there's a bug that needs to be reported to support.

Shal

On 6/12/2017 12:52 AM, Linda wrote:

...

View/Reply Online (#13915): https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/13915
View All Messages In Topic (21):
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/5164485

Another general problem: a search on part of a word (in the below example, "lymphom", part of "lymphoma"), when the word is not one with a common root, brings up the *wrong* surrounding words. Instead of messages containing "lymphoma", it returns only instances of typos of the word "lymphoma" ("lymphoms", etc.):

search on "lymphom":
https://groups.io/g/Feline_Smallcell_Lymphoma/search?q=lymphom

vs. search on "lymphoma":
https://groups.io/g/Feline_Smallcell_Lymphoma/search?q=lymphoma

 Again, by contrast, yahoo does both searches correctly.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

It's been a while, but I also am frustrated by default behavior of "OR-ing" multiple search terms.

For example, if my search is [JAWS NVDA "Window Eyes"] I will get posts back with any one of those, two of those, or all of those back.  Now, I know that I can use the plus sign in front of all of them to force their presence, but this seems to me to be utterly backwards.   When I add search terms it is with the express purpose of narrowing the range of results I get back, not expanding it, and I have often had precisely the opposite effect.

"AND-ing" should be the default behavior.  It is in virtually every other search I use, whether a big name search engine like Google or a forums search.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 

Mark,

Overly broad search results, in particular (but not exclusively) in searching for technical content, has been my big beef with Search as well. It's trivial to find countless examples. Here's one: search on "B12" and you (apparently) get back every message containing a capital "B":
https://groups.io/g/Feline_Smallcell_Lymphoma/search?q=B12

Or a non-technical, common English example: search on "edited" and you get back everything with the string "edit," including "edit, "editing," etc.:
https://groups.io/g/Feline_Smallcell_Lymphoma/search?q=edited

I could go on and on. I realize you're already well aware of this issue as caused by the elastisearch's method of looking for roots of words. But you asked for specific examples. I don't think I have other specific issues but I'll search through prior conversations we had here in beta about Search problems and see if I recall anything.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

I have not really played with message search before, but having just
done so on my own group (cdxc@groups.io, restricted membership) I am
not impressed. I gather it is optimised to search for real words that
appear in dictionaries. Our group, being an amateur radio group, will
mean that most people using search will be looking at threads to do
with previous amateur radio 'dxpeditions' and will do so using the
amateur callsign used by that dxpeditions. For instance A25UK was one
such operation from Botswana earlier this year. Search on Botswana and
you get some search results - but most of the posts will just have the
callsign in the text, not Botswana - if you search for A25UK you get
loads and loads of irrelevant results which don't have A25UK anywhere
in them.

Repeat the same test on that group's old Yahoogroup site and it works
as intended (although in this case we moved over to groups.io before it
finished).

Another Yahoogroup I am on, which may or may not move over to
groups.io, is to do with TV repair. I would expect to search on the
model number of a TV, eg 23PFL5522, and get all fault postings on that
model. Not being able to do that on groups.io would be a huge
disadvantage.

I may be misunderstanding how to use search, but if you cannot search
for posts containing random things like this it is next to useless.

Dave



On 12 Jun 2017 at 14:04, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Hi All,

Please send me any examples you have of bad search results, the query
you entered and what you were expecting vs what it returned. You can
send me these off-list if you'd prefer.

Thanks,
Mark

http://davesergeant.com

Hi All,

Many apps are available on either Andriod or Apple only or both. Will these apps also work on desk top computers as well or not?



Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@temple.edu


On Sun, 11 Jun 2017, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Hi All (and thanks to Shal for the suggestion),
I have been lax on updating everyone on my priorities for development. For the first half of the year, I spent a lot of time fixing bugs and working on incremental improvements. That will continue, but I'm also currently working on two big projects: improved search, and an iOS/Android app.

Search
There are a few problems with the existing search. It's based on an old version of Elasticsearch, which cannot be easily upgraded. It can be very slow for certain queries. And it doesn't return the best results. As I've mentioned, I've contracted with a firm of search experts, who are helping me address all of those problems. I hope to have a test version of the new search available in the next week or so. I will post a link to it when it's ready for testing.

iOS/Android App
Much like how I spent a large part of last summer working on a mobile version of the website, I will be spending a lot of time this summer working on an iOS/Android app. There are actually two parts to this project. The first part is the development of an API, and the second part is the development of the app itself. I do not have experience developing iOS/Android apps, and I learn best by seeing examples, so I contracted with a firm to develop a bare-bones app that logs in, displays the groups you're subscribed to, and the topics of a group. That's been completed, and I'm going through the code now. But before I can really start fleshing out the app, I need to first complete the API.
The technology I'm using for the app, called React Native, allows for a pretty easy beta test system. So, once the app is in OK shape, I'll send out a note for beta testers. My guess at this point would be that this will happen in September.
And after all that? Probably notifications is the next big project.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks, Mark

.


.

Hi Shal,
My experience mirrors J's, and if I follow your advice "...when that situation occurs I use the "View/Reply Online" link in the email message footer to take me straight to the message in question. One click and I'm there." it takes me to the first message in the topic: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/5164485 not the message to which I wish to respond.

Linda

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 11:42 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

Too soon. Wait to see if the identified problems resolve in a reasonable time.

 Sure. Because I have no choice. :) I'm just pushing as hard as I can for Mark to ditch this thing. Call me a pessimist but I don't see these problems being easily or quickly resolved, if ever. I think they're built into the thing, and I think we're seeing only the beginning of the problems.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

J,

As I'd already explained to you in GMF, where I'd mentioned this
problem to you in another context (and where you were quick to at
first deny its existence;),

Did I?

I think I was trying to figure out how to reproduce it. You eventually said the key thing I needed to know and then I tracked down the cause.

Far be it from me to throw out babies with the bathwater. But to mix
metaphors, I would not throw good money after bad. I'd push for
throwing this baby out ...

Too soon. Wait to see if the identified problems resolve in a reasonable time.

Shal

Shal,

As I'd already explained to you in GMF, where I'd mentioned this problem to you in another context (and where you were quick to at first deny its existence;), that *tip* you are posting here is the workaround Mark laid out for me and which I then told *you* about. It has worked very sporadically for me and even when it does, it's a PITA.

Far be it from me to throw out babies with the bathwater. But to mix metaphors, I would not throw good money after bad. I'd push for throwing this baby out just as I pushed hard long ago for throwing out the current Search, which I'm gratified to see Mark finally doing.

J

Sent from my iPhone

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

J,

This all sounds great, but I think groups.io still needs a better
editor. That would be a higher priority for me than either the search
improvement or the notification overhaul.

I wouldn't be too quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The block quote problem, the fleeting HTML display, and other
possible issues. .. bordering on ...well, I want to say an
embarrassment, because I feel it's that bad.

The block quote problem can be worked around, and is probably an easy fix for Mark.
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Message-composition-tips-and-tricks#Quirks

The fleeting HTML and the slowdown I haven't experienced. Of the two I'd guess the slowdown will be the more difficult to correct, though maybe the same cause underlies both.
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/1874

The key will be whether either performance issue is inherent to the editor, or has something to do with how it is used (invoked) in Groups.io's code. The latter Mark may be able to cure, the former would require the involvement of its authors.

Shal

Mark,

I hope to have a test version of the new search available in the next
week or so. I will post a link to it when it's ready for testing.

+1

So, once the app is in OK shape, I'll send out a note for beta
testers.

I'll be interested to see what benefits an app offers a user, versus the responsive (mobile) version of the site.

And after all that? Probably notifications is the next big project.

Yay!

I wish it didn't have to wait behind the mobile app, but as a moderator I'll be glad to have notifications of member contributions to my group pages.

Shal

This all sounds great, but I think groups.io still needs a better editor. That would be a higher priority for me than either the search improvement or the notification overhaul. The block quote problem, the fleeting HTML display, and other possible issues (including a delay in typed text appearing onscreen, reported by some people in GMF and possibly related to the new editor) make it a real hindrance, even bordering on ...well,  I want to say an embarrassment, because I feel it's that bad. 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

Hi All (and thanks to Shal for the suggestion),

I have been lax on updating everyone on my priorities for development. For the first half of the year, I spent a lot of time fixing bugs and working on incremental improvements. That will continue, but I'm also currently working on two big projects: improved search, and an iOS/Android app.

Search

There are a few problems with the existing search. It's based on an old version of Elasticsearch, which cannot be easily upgraded. It can be very slow for certain queries. And it doesn't return the best results. As I've mentioned, I've contracted with a firm of search experts, who are helping me address all of those problems. I hope to have a test version of the new search available in the next week or so. I will post a link to it when it's ready for testing.

iOS/Android App

Much like how I spent a large part of last summer working on a mobile version of the website, I will be spending a lot of time this summer working on an iOS/Android app. There are actually two parts to this project. The first part is the development of an API, and the second part is the development of the app itself. I do not have experience developing iOS/Android apps, and I learn best by seeing examples, so I contracted with a firm to develop a bare-bones app that logs in, displays the groups you're subscribed to, and the topics of a group. That's been completed, and I'm going through the code now. But before I can really start fleshing out the app, I need to first complete the API.

The technology I'm using for the app, called React Native, allows for a pretty easy beta test system. So, once the app is in OK shape, I'll send out a note for beta testers. My guess at this point would be that this will happen in September.

And after all that? Probably notifications is the next big project.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks, Mark

J,

I don't do that because, for many reasons, I'm not fond of using the
mobile version. I do it only when I can't get to my computer.

I'm confused, who said anything about using the mobile version?

Shal

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 06:06 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

I sometimes do, and when that situation occurs I use the "View/Reply Online" link in the email message footer

I was just waiting for that suggestion. Bingo!
I don't do that because, for many reasons, I'm not fond of using the mobile version. I do it only when I can't get to my computer.
Please, let's not have this argument/debate/discussion over and over again! I just want Mark to fix this.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

J,

Actually, even here in beta, after getting a message via email, I
usually want to respond to it via the web.

I sometimes do, and when that situation occurs I use the "View/Reply Online" link in the email message footer to take me straight to the message in question. One click and I'm there.

I don't see any advantage in going in through the Messages or Topics list first.

Shal

I just can't understand why you have such a difficult time. I've found 4 or 5 ways to get to a group with the Messages view still showing, but only 1 that always brings up the Topics view (2 if you count a bookmark.)

Duane