Date   

moderated Re: web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion

 

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 09:07 am, Al Ludwick / NN4ZZ wrote:

If i create a “pending subscription” message, my understanding it that it
is sent out separately and a reply may come later or not at all. And the
owner/moderators would need to wait to get the reply and keep track of it.
And coordinate and decide when to make a decision on the application.
When you get the reply, make a decision. If you never get a reply, you may ignore the pending member.

If so, my preference would be to present the question when the user first asks
to join and include the reply in the approval email.
You need to create a Pending Subsription member notice anyway because potential members can request subscription via email.


moderated Re: web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion

 

J,

... when someone requests membership via email, the Pending
Subscription notice is not even sent to them, nor is the moderator
made aware of the membership request in any way, ...
until AFTER the pending member returns the Confirmation email to
groups.io. This is different from when someone requests membership via
the web: ...

I don't understand the reason for this discrepancy (although I'm sure
there must be a good one),
Yup. The +subscribe email command may have been spoofed. If the person is logged in to the web site that's not a concern.

Back before Yahoo Groups implemented the same confirmation requirement it was possible to flood someone's inbox by subscribing them to a bunch of high-volume groups. All you needed to know was the person's email address, and how to forge From addresses (create spoofed messages).

In these days of modern times I think Mark could safely remove the confirmation requirement for any +subscribe commands where the sender can be authenticated. Likewise for +unsubscribe and the other email commands.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/14899

... but I think this two-step process in the case of join requests via
email is contributing to keeping moderators in the dark about
membership requests ...
One thing that Yahoo Groups does is log the +subscribe receipt itself, and then later log the receipt of the confirmation. In the Email Commands tab of the Activity log these would appear as (newer first):

Mar 24 12:53 PM ... Membership confirmed via email
Mar 24 12:49 PM ... Membership requested via email

And only on the confirmed event would an entry be made in the Membership tab of the log and the person added to the pending member list and the APPROVE notice sent to the mods and the Pending file sent to the member.

(Not that those are particularly well worded. Many mods of restricted groups have been shocked to see "membership confirmed" in the log for people they haven't approved - but that's not what happened. The later entry ought to have said "Membership request confirmed via email".)

(This is made worse by the fact that the Confirmation email is sent,
and a response from the person requesting membership via email is
required, even if that person already has a groups.io account.
That's because this is confirming that they sent the +subscribe command. It is unrelated to confirming their email address as part of getting their account set up.

So this seems like a bug, unless I have misunderstood Confirmation all
of this time.
It is confirming something different in this case.

Shal


moderated Database privacy

Benoît Dumeaux
 

- Publicly viewable database
- Possibility to encapsuled with iframe to another website


moderated Re: order of sending welcome message and group guidelines #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

I found the above guidance very helpful, having discovered it more by chance than anything else. I/we are about to set up a "Pending Subscription" message; up to now we have been doing it manually, which is tedious.

Many thanks.

Chris


moderated Re: web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion

 

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 09:07 am, Al Ludwick / NN4ZZ wrote:
my understanding it that it is sent out separately and a reply may come later or not at all.  
I just learned from Mark in a separate thread
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/16380

that when someone requests membership via email, the Pending Subscription notice is not even sent to them, nor is the moderator made aware of the membership request in any way, including a Pending member notice on the site or an email that there is a pending subscription requiring approval or EVEN a log entry that there's been a join request, until AFTER the pending member returns the Confirmation email to groups.io. This is different from when someone requests membership via the web: in the case of web requests, the Confirmation and the Pending Subscription emails go out at the same time, immediately upon the join request. and the moderator is immediately notified that there's been a membership request.

I don't understand the reason for this discrepancy (although I'm sure there must be a good one), but I think this two-step process in the case of join requests via email is contributing to keeping moderators in the dark about membership requests and whether or not the Pending Subscription notices have gone out or reached he person.  If the person has requested membership via email, moderators have no clue at all that there's even been a request until the person sends back the Confirmation email to groups.io. There's not even a log entry. You're completely in the dark. And the Pending Subscription notice has, in fact, not reached them - it hasn't even gone out yet.

I am reiterating here much of what I said in the thread above, but I think it bears on this thread, too, in that the process of sending, and the person receiving, the Pending Subscription notice seems far from ideal. Also, the fact that there exists a discrepancy between web join requests and email join requests gives moderators a false sense that they know whenever there's been a join request to their group, when actually they don't.

(This is made worse by the fact that the Confirmation email is sent, and a response from the person requesting membership via email is required, even if that person already has a groups.io account. Mark, I just tested this again and will send you details at support. My understanding was that Confirmation is required only of people attempting to join groups.io for the first time. So this seems like a bug, unless I have misunderstood Confirmation all of this time. If it is not a bug, and works as intended, that makes the join process even more problematic IMO.)
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion

Douglas Swearingen
 

Hello Al,


To my knowledge your understanding of "Pending Subscription" is correct.


As for tracking Pending Subscription messages in my group, we do not track them.  That is we do not track these outgoing messages as far as keeping track of everyone that receives the message.  Years of experience has taught me, less than 60% of those sent the messages ever reply back.  That is okay though.  My group is a Chronic Pain group and we request a pain related reason for joining. 


I do not know of a current way to present the question when the user first asks to join.


I do not think unless Mark makes some changes to user requests to join a group that is possible.


Maybe someone else in the group, GMF or Beta can add to this.


Doug




From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> on behalf of Al Ludwick / NN4ZZ <al@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:59 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion
 
Hi Doug,
If i create a “pending subscription” message, my understanding it that it is sent out separately and a reply may come later or not at all.   And the owner/moderators would need to wait to get the reply and keep track of it.   And coordinate and decide when to make a decision on the application.

Is that correct?

If so, my preference would be to present the question when the user first asks to join and include the reply in the approval email.  That way it would be just one event to review the request including the reply and immediately approve it in most cases. 

Does that make sense or am i misunderstanding something?

Al / NN4ZZ


On Mar 22, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Douglas Swearingen <dougiebehr@...> wrote:

Hello Al,


Someone might have already commented on this.  I have a restricted group.  My outgoing request for information before approving a member of my group, is posted whenever someone subscribes.  This is set at Admin --> Settings --> Member Notices, then click the dropdown for type of messages and I selected Pending Subscription.  So far all the messages to new subscribers have gone out.  I do know from posts here there have been some groups this does not always happen.


Doug




From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> on behalf of Al Ludwick / NN4ZZ <al@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 8:11 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion
 
All of the groups I manage are for Amateur radio ( aka Ham radio).  It would be nice to include a simple question that they could answer and provide the reply to us in the application message.

If you are a ham radio operator, please provide your call _______ or a short note about why you would like to join our group ____________________________________.

That is all we need to see,  Other groups might like to ask a different question. 

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
al (at) NN4ZZ (dot) com


moderated Re: web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion

Al Ludwick / NN4ZZ
 

Hi Doug,
If i create a “pending subscription” message, my understanding it that it is sent out separately and a reply may come later or not at all.   And the owner/moderators would need to wait to get the reply and keep track of it.   And coordinate and decide when to make a decision on the application.

Is that correct?

If so, my preference would be to present the question when the user first asks to join and include the reply in the approval email.  That way it would be just one event to review the request including the reply and immediately approve it in most cases. 

Does that make sense or am i misunderstanding something?

Al / NN4ZZ


On Mar 22, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Douglas Swearingen <dougiebehr@...> wrote:

Hello Al,


Someone might have already commented on this.  I have a restricted group.  My outgoing request for information before approving a member of my group, is posted whenever someone subscribes.  This is set at Admin --> Settings --> Member Notices, then click the dropdown for type of messages and I selected Pending Subscription.  So far all the messages to new subscribers have gone out.  I do know from posts here there have been some groups this does not always happen.


Doug




From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> on behalf of Al Ludwick / NN4ZZ <al@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 8:11 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion
 
All of the groups I manage are for Amateur radio ( aka Ham radio).  It would be nice to include a simple question that they could answer and provide the reply to us in the application message.

If you are a ham radio operator, please provide your call _______ or a short note about why you would like to join our group ____________________________________.

That is all we need to see,  Other groups might like to ask a different question. 

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
al (at) NN4ZZ (dot) com


moderated Re: web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion

Douglas Swearingen
 

Hello Al,


Someone might have already commented on this.  I have a restricted group.  My outgoing request for information before approving a member of my group, is posted whenever someone subscribes.  This is set at Admin --> Settings --> Member Notices, then click the dropdown for type of messages and I selected Pending Subscription.  So far all the messages to new subscribers have gone out.  I do know from posts here there have been some groups this does not always happen.


Doug




From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> on behalf of Al Ludwick / NN4ZZ <al@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 8:11 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion
 
All of the groups I manage are for Amateur radio ( aka Ham radio).  It would be nice to include a simple question that they could answer and provide the reply to us in the application message.

If you are a ham radio operator, please provide your call _______ or a short note about why you would like to join our group ____________________________________.

That is all we need to see,  Other groups might like to ask a different question. 

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
al (at) NN4ZZ (dot) com


moderated Re: web-based questionnaire for restricted groups a pressing issue #suggestion

Al Ludwick / NN4ZZ
 

All of the groups I manage are for Amateur radio ( aka Ham radio).  It would be nice to include a simple question that they could answer and provide the reply to us in the application message.

If you are a ham radio operator, please provide your call _______ or a short note about why you would like to join our group ____________________________________.

That is all we need to see,  Other groups might like to ask a different question. 

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
al (at) NN4ZZ (dot) com


moderated Re: Automatic Deletion of Members / Spam Messages #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

Mark; many, many thanks for doing that. As chance would have it there was a "new format" message in my Inbox when I switched on this morning (UK time).

Any chance of a copy of the message to members being posted here so that we can copy it into the wiki?

Thanks again.

Chris


moderated Re: Yahoo group transfers caught up

Marlin47
 

Yes, I am still waiting for one, to transfer from Photo-Traders@... to  Photo-Traders@groups.io

The  transfer@groups.io address was promoted to moderator on March 14


Marlin



On 3/21/2018 11:23 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Hi All,

As of right now, I believe I'm caught up with all Yahoo Group transfers. If you are waiting on me for a group transfer, please contact support, as it may have slipped through the cracks.

Thanks,
Mark


Virus-free. www.avg.com


moderated Yahoo group transfers caught up

 

Hi All,

As of right now, I believe I'm caught up with all Yahoo Group transfers. If you are waiting on me for a group transfer, please contact support, as it may have slipped through the cracks.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Automatic Deletion of Members / Spam Messages #suggestion

 

Hi All,

Thanks for the suggestions. I've made the changes in the emails.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: automatic deletion, why?

 

Hi All,

Replying to my own email.... I have been looking into a delivery issue with centurylink.net email addresses. Some people are having their digests bounce with a '5.7.1 [P4] Message blocked due to spam content in the message' message. Not terribly helpful. Contacting the postmaster address, one part of their automated reply contains this advice:

Additionally, high volume senders can apply to our feedback loop here: fbl.synacor.com

Which I have now done. We'll see if that helps, but to me it seems to imply that it may help with delivery.

Cheers, Mark


moderated Re: see past activity from "removed" as well as "banned" members (premium groups) #suggestion

 

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:12 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Disappointingly, this has now completely disappeared! I can now no longer see "Notes" of either Past OR Banned members. 

Thanks for the bug report. It's been fixed. And now you can edit the moderator notes of past members as well.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: automatic deletion, why?

Barb M
 

Is this a real negative or just speculation of what "might" happen?
This really HAS happened to me - it's not just speculation. We were still on Y!G at the time and my email was through my ISP (i.e. a small provider, which is probably significant). A couple of times I found myself tangled up in a "blacklist" battle, where I could not receive group emails because someone else on a far-off planet had abused the system and sent a bunch of spam. It sometimes took days to get off of that Blacklist.

Since then I have switched to gmail and we are no longer on Y!G... but, having experienced that frustration in the past, I applaud steps to prevent it!

A "different" Barb


moderated Re: automatic deletion, why?

toki
 

On 03/20/2018 08:06 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:

att.com is hosted by yahoo and I think sbc, pacbell and probably other of the ATT domains are likely at yahoo also
Does Oath still manage all of the email domains that Yahoo managed?

If so, at least another 20 domains can be added to that list.

jonathon


moderated Re: see past activity from "removed" as well as "banned" members (premium groups) #suggestion

 

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 07:30 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
you can also view any moderator notes.
Mark, 

Disappointingly, this has now completely disappeared! I can now no longer see "Notes" of either Past OR Banned members. At first, Notes were visible in both. Then they disappeared from Banned and were grayed out in Past. At least at that point, I could copy the grayed out notes and stick them into the Notes field of a banned member. Now the notes are completely gone from Past members as well!
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Calendar Default II, Time Display

Arno Martens
 

The Time display in a calendar message displays Time & Zone differently from the calendar settings.
Setting is
(UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US and Canada)
Body of text is
(GMT-04:00) America/New York

Also, I love GMT as much as AM and PM. 
The settings already allows for the UTC standard, could we also have a choice for the 24 hour clock.

Thank you,
Arno


moderated Re: automatic deletion, why?

 

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:06 PM, Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 10:33 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:
We're signed up for the following FBL systems: aol.com, outlook.com, rr.com, earthlink.net, yahoo.com
 
att.com is hosted by yahoo and I think sbc, pacbell and probably other of the ATT domains are likely at yahoo also

So, does your Signup (above) cover these domains?

Yes. And Outlook covers Hotmail. Sorry I wasn't more clear.


Thanks,
Mark 

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