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moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

Dave Sergeant
 

I am not sure GDPR requires that.

Things like email lists come under the GDPR legitimate purpose clauses
- which allows the supplied data to be used for the purposes of running
the organisation/email list/whatever. When somebody subscribes to a
groups.io list they supply their email address and other information
they choose to supply for them to access the service. Anything they put
in their posts are offered by themselves and will be fully aware that
their posts will be distributed to all on the list. Everything comes
under legitimate purposes and no extra permission is required.

It is of course completely impossible to delete all references to an
individual in the archives since this is distributed in an unknown
number of places on individual computers and by deleting posts a group
could not work as it was intended as related posts in threads would no
longer make sense.

The groups.io website is somewhat different as more detailed
information about moderators is held, particularly for those on paid
plans. Mark has stated he will be updating his privacy terms to reflect
this.

In my experience the current flood of GDRP emails I have been receiving
are a disguised attempt to add people to organisations marketting
campaigns - tick this box if you want to receive exciting offers from
us, but if you don't you will still get your membership renewal
mailings and other basic features.

Dave

On 24 May 2018 at 15:20, toki wrote:

On 05/24/2018 09:26 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I haven't read the GDPR but I would be surprised if it required a
website to remove posts that someone posted
themselves after granting rights (via the TOU) for the website to the
publish the posts.

Not only does the GDPR require that, but it also requires that all posts
that quote the individual be removed.

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

On 24 May 2018, at 16:20, toki <toki.kantoor@...> wrote:

Doesn't matter where the content came from, if the subject requests
removal, it has to be removed. No ifs, ands, or buts, unless you want to
pay a very large fine.

Not true.
The right to erasure is not an absolute right. It is all laid out here <https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-to-erasure/> A lot of people are worrying unduly about all this - there are not a million miles between the current Data Protection Act 1998 (UK) and the GDPR.

kind regards

Nick
___

dUNMUR | member of the AOP


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

toki
 

On 05/24/2018 03:25 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

journalist writing for an online news outlet and I've granted rights to the publication? The publication does not then have to remove my articles on my demand just because my name is on the byline.
That comes under both _The Right to be Forgotten_, and _Moral Rights_,
of Copyright Law.

I am not a lawyer.
This is not legal advice.

jonathon


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

toki
 

On 05/23/2018 10:27 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

These things are still up in the air because every lawyer involved with GDPR stuff is slammed right now
I suspect those lawyers will be able to bill 200+ hours per week, for at
least another three months.

I'm doing what I can, but my guess is that these changes will happen after Friday. I've been told that this won't be a problem,
Typically, European bureaucracies are more concerned with getting the
organization into compliance, than in fining them. OTOH, they are
slightly more sympathetic towards domestic organizations, than foreign
organizations. On the gripping hand, given the major data breeches in
the last year, that involved organizations that appear to be based in
the United States, those would be the first to be placed in their
cross-hairs.

jonathon


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

toki
 

On 05/24/2018 12:41 PM, Victoria wrote:
Whoever joins my group must accept these guidelines by filling in a questionnaire and clicking a box that they have accepted this.
Just be aware that in most (¿all?) countries in continental Europe, one
can neither waive, nor sign away one's rights. As such, it doesn't
matter what your agreement says, for European residents the GDPR
applies. Depending upon country of citizenship, European citizens might
covered by the GDPR, regardless of physical domicile.

I am not a lawyer.
This is not legal advice.

jonathon


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 08:20 am, toki wrote:
Doesn't matter where the content came from, if the subject requests
removal, it has to be removed.
I'll have to read it. I still find it very hard to believe that an author granting publication rights to a website for their content (which is essentially what's happening here) can then demand that it be removed. What if I'm a journalist writing for an online news outlet and I've granted rights to the publication? The publication does not then have to remove my articles on my demand just because my name is on the byline. Articles *about* me, or that mention me, would be a completely different story. But not content *by* me that I have given to the publication myself. I'm going to have to read it.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

toki
 

On 05/24/2018 09:26 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I haven't read the GDPR but I would be surprised if it required a website to remove posts that someone posted themselves after granting rights (via the TOU) for the website to the publish the posts.
Not only does the GDPR require that, but it also requires that all posts
that quote the individual be removed.

I do understand that it would (as I understand it) require the site to remove information *about* the person published by others.
Doesn't matter where the content came from, if the subject requests
removal, it has to be removed. No ifs, ands, or buts, unless you want to
pay a very large fine.

I am not a lawyer.
This is not legal advice.

jonathon


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 05:41 am, Victoria wrote:
Our groups are mailing lists
Groups.io is also a website and has to comply with the new privacy (etc.) rules. I'm sure Mark is doing this correctly.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

Mark, Marina, J.

 

Mark, thanks for all your work. I think that some of this GDPR tuff is eaten less “hot” than it´s cooked.

 

Our groups are mailing lists, and if s.o. joins a mailing list, they are aware of the fact that their mails and their mail addresses do not only show on the website but equally in numerous private accounts of other group members. It´s self-evident, that theoretically mails and mail accounts are thus distributed infinitely and all over the world.

 

If s.o. leaves the group, they cannot expect, that all their mails are deleted, which I do not think would ever be possible.

 

My solution has been from the start, that I bring these facts to the attention of prospective members before they join. My terms are mentioned in the guidelines visible to everybody on the homepage of the group. And there it is stated (among other terms of private policy) that a member has to accept the fact that their mails are read in private accounts and on the website and that their contributions to the group (reports, files and photos) remain the property of the group, even after they leave. This in my eyes is enough.

 

Whoever joins my group must accept these guidelines by filling in a questionnaire and clicking a box that they have accepted this.

 

Apart from that: Wouldn´t it be much easier if mail addresses were possible to be made invisible not only in archives but also in the mails that reach members in their private accounts? As far as I know this is not avoidable/clickable at the moment. This at least could make it impossible for anyone to collect mail addresses for commercial purposes.

 

Greetings

Victoria


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 11:59 pm, Marina wrote:
how could I comply if a member who has left (or is leaving, for that matter) the group should ask me to delete all his posts.
I haven't read the GDPR but I would be surprised if it required a website to remove posts that someone posted themselves after granting rights (via the TOU) for the website to the publish the posts. Does it require this? I do understand that it would (as I understand it) require the site to remove information *about* the person published by others.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

Marina
 

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 03:27 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:

I expedited implementation of the account export as well as the expanded
group export features because of GDPR. I expect that I will have to make
some other minor changes for GDPR, specifically how to display identifying
data from someone who has deleted their account. If you're viewing a
message posted by someone on the website who has deleted their account, I
may have to somehow obscure the person's name.
Thank you for all your efforts, Mark. That is a tricky point. I am the owner of a former Yahoo group whose members are 90% European citizens based in Europe. I moved the group without much regard to GDPR and now I wonder how could I comply if a member who has left (or is leaving, for that matter) the group should ask me to delete all his posts. There should be a feature (accessible only to moderators/owners) to bulk remove one member's posts on request. Maybe a "Bulk remove" option shown in the "All Posts by this Member" page.
Just a thought.

Have a nice day (or a nice night),
Marina


moderated Account export and GDPR update

 

Hi All,

The account export feature now lets you specify which groups you'd like to export data from. There's also an option labeled 'Any other groups' which exports data from any groups you may have posted to in the past and later unsubscribed from. I have also broken out the messages by group into separate mbox files in the archive. Please let me know if you see any issues.

I expedited implementation of the account export as well as the expanded group export features because of GDPR. I expect that I will have to make some other minor changes for GDPR, specifically how to display identifying data from someone who has deleted their account. If you're viewing a message posted by someone on the website who has deleted their account, I may have to somehow obscure the person's name. But I am not sure about that yet. Also, I expect that some ToS and Privacy Policy changes may have to be made.

These things are still up in the air because every lawyer involved with GDPR stuff is slammed right now and getting time with my lawyers has been challenging. I'm doing what I can, but my guess is that these changes will happen after Friday. I've been told that this won't be a problem, and indeed, several of the companies I depend on for Groups.io, including our hosting company, have not put up their GDPR mandated materials yet.

More when I know.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: #suggestion - Eliminate the subgroup tab when no subgroups exist #suggestion

 

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 9:38 AM, Tom Vail <Tom@...> wrote:

Can this be reset for me at this point?

I've reset it.

Cheers,
Mark 


moderated Re: #suggestion - Eliminate the subgroup tab when no subgroups exist #suggestion

Tom Vail
 

Mark,

Can this be reset for me at this point?

Peace,
Tom


moderated Re: #suggestion - Eliminate the subgroup tab when no subgroups exist #suggestion

 

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 8:29 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

My group has no subgroups; and unless I log on with my owner account, there is no evidence anywhere that this option even exists. However, I assume that if I allow subscribers access to the Member's List, they also gain access to parts of the Admin menu (as that's where that list resides). Are you saying that a Subgroups tab appears here too, even if there are no subgroups? Are there perhaps other Admin menu items lurking here, enticing subscribers to click on them? 


Tom created at least one subgroup initially. He then deleted all subgroups. Normally that would reset things completely just like no subgroups had ever been created. And the Subgroups tab would not be displayed. But when he had subgroups, he changed the main group's name (the one that defaults to main). When all subgroups are deleted, if the main group's name has been changed, we don't reset everything completely back to the way it was with a stand alone group. That's why he still sees the Subgroups tab.

I don't exactly remember the reasoning behind this, other than maybe the thinking was that if someone changed the main group's name, they wanted to keep the subdomain.

Mark


moderated Re: #suggestion - Make the email address in Member List a link #suggestion

Tom Vail
 

Bruce,

I see the point if the Display Name is blank (which we do not have) so that I guess would outweigh the convenience of making the email address clickable.  So I'll rescind my suggestion.

But it is more than just one click - you also have to scroll allllll the way to the bottom to send a message.  :)

Peace,
Tom


moderated Re: #suggestion - Eliminate the subgroup tab when no subgroups exist #suggestion

Tom Vail
 

Bruce,

On my group's member page Subgroups is displayed, and we have no subgroups.  I checked it with Member's List on and off with no change and turning the Directory on/off makes no change either.  So it sounds like I'm seeing something different than you are.

Two thoughts:  

1)  I'm just logging off as an owner then logging back in as a member.  Could it be there is something "left over" that is triggering Subgroups to display?
2)  At one point this group did have a subgroup, which has been deleted.  Could it be the system still thinks we have a subgroup, even though it was deleted?

In either case, it would seem to be a bug.  :(

Peace,
Tom


moderated Re: #suggestion - Eliminate the subgroup tab when no subgroups exist #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 08:23 am, Tom Vail wrote:
I would like to suggest that when there are no subgroups, and only moderators and owners can create them, that the Subgroup tab be eliminated from the Members display.
Tom...just a little confused by this, so allow me speculate on what you mean.

My group has no subgroups; and unless I log on with my owner account, there is no evidence anywhere that this option even exists. However, I assume that if I allow subscribers access to the Member's List, they also gain access to parts of the Admin menu (as that's where that list resides). Are you saying that a Subgroups tab appears here too, even if there are no subgroups? Are there perhaps other Admin menu items lurking here, enticing subscribers to click on them? 

Thanks for clarifying,
Bruce


moderated Re: #suggestion - Make the email address in Member List a link #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 08:04 am, Tom Vail wrote:
Not sure why it is not already, but I would like to suggest the email address in the Members list when seen by members be a "mailto" link to that address.  I know they can copy/paste, but why not a direct link?
It is already possible to send a message by opening their subscription record and clicking on the "Send Message" button at the bottom of the resulting page (i.e.: you're only saving one click). More to the point, if we were to make the email address directly clickable from the original display then we would need to create some other, separate link to access the member's subscription information. Personally, I like being able to click on the entire row to do this and see no convenient alternative...especially in such cases where the Display Name is not populated.

So I have to vote no on this suggestion.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Search in Sub groups not working?

Randy Thomson
 

Sorry about that. That's the prefix for messages, but not the name of the group. My bad.

Randy T

-----Original Message-----
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alexis
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:00 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Search in Sub groups not working?

Thanks for that and I did eventually manage to work out what GMF stood for,,,remember we all have to start sometime :)

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