Date   

moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 02:20 AM, Tony Moody wrote:
The issue with this IP address is that somehow one of our trap addresses
has found its way onto the mailing list Haitianpolitics@groups.io
We would never subscribe an address to a list and certainly would never
confirm a subscription to a mailing list.
However, stuff happens, so I did unsubscribe the address from the
list... twice.  The mail from Haitianpolitics@groups.io continues,
causing the IP to be listed again.
It would be nice if they'd tell us what the trap address was so groups.io could ban it.

Bruce


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 01:51 AM, SP4149 wrote:
I had this happen today to subscribers on several lists simultaneously even though no messages had been sent when the bounce notice from spamcop was recorded on the activity log.
Ken -- Bouncing is an account status, not a subscription status. For this reason accounts can [and often do] start bouncing in response to activity in a group that is not yours.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

Tony Moody
 

I wrote to Spamcop, to a reference on the web :

On 2021-03-08 6:47 a.m., Tony Moody wrote:
> To SpamCop Admin Don D'Minion
>
> Hi,
>
> Please unblock mail02.groups.io [66.175.222.108]
>
> I am a user of Groups.io services and Spamcop is blocking delivery of my
emails from various
> groups and group members. This has resulted in much alarm and
despondency here due to
> missed emails , notices and even replies to my enquiries about the
Groups.io services.
>
> Please do not block my emails
>
> Again.
>
> PLEEASE DO NOT BLOCK LEGITIMATE , LEGAL AND DESIRED MESSAGES from
> Groups.io.
>
> WHAT SPAMCOP IS DOING IS THEFT AND IS WHAT CAN BE SEEN AS SPAMMING.
>
> PLEASE CEASE AND DESIST
>
> Tony Moody

Spamcop replied :

Sorry, Don isn't with us anymore. He passed away about six years ago.

The issue with this IP address is that somehow one of our trap addresses
has found its way onto the mailing list Haitianpolitics@groups.io
We would never subscribe an address to a list and certainly would never
confirm a subscription to a mailing list.
However, stuff happens, so I did unsubscribe the address from the
list... twice.  The mail from Haitianpolitics@groups.io continues,
causing the IP to be listed again.
Richard

I signed up to Haitianpolitics@groups.io ; my french not good so I couldn't follow the conversation. There is some english .

It strikes me that perhaps Spamcop algorithms do not play nicely with "foreign"  languages.

OK,
Tony


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

SP4149
 

I had this happen today to subscribers on several lists simultaneously even though no messages had been sent when the bounce notice from spamcop was recorded on the activity log.
ken


moderated A couple more areas missed with the new subscription checks #bug

 

Hi Mark,

I just found out that there are two (or three?) more places where the new NoEmail & SpecialNotice assignment needs to also reset the FO settings, as they still allow you to "set" your subscription to either NoEmail or SpecialNotice while keeping the FO settings you had before.

A. If one has a group set to Indiv/digests/summary + FO(...), the "Your Groups" page (groups.io/groups) allows you to select one or more groups and set them to either NoEmail or SpecialNotice, and it will do so but it also keeps the previously-selected FO settings.

B. Same in the Unsubscribe page (from email message link, ../<groupname>/leave/.../.../.../xyzzy) or Sub settings page -> Leave group -> "Verify Leave" dialog, it gives you the option to "Switch to Special Notices", which also resets you to Special Notices but it also keeps the FO settings you had before.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

Christos et al, 

I couldn’t reproduce my problem, the one Mark fixed, but I did want to say  (1) my issue was not that I was FO and No Email. The problem was that I was showing No Email in the places that mattered (Member List and My Groups page) but as Individual Emsil in my subscription page; and (2) I think the reason I couldn’t run an experiment to reproduce was that i had no other subscription to any other group that was set to No Email before the change. So I’m still feeling a bit in the dark as to what Mark is fixing.


On Mar 8, 2021, at 5:14 PM, Christos G. Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

 Mark,

On 2021-03-08 17:43, Mark Fletcher via groups.io wrote:
That is, can you now change that subscription (to FeralCats), so that it's No Email and also Following Only? And if so, how did you do it?

I just tested this with my beta subscription, which normally is Indiv+FO+FF+AFR.  I selected No email, and the code reset my message selection to All Messages.  Before hitting Save, I reselected*** FO+FF+AFR, (with NoEmail selected) then clicked save, but the code reset NoEmail back to Individual.


(*** right here, IMO FO should be disabled if NoEmail is selected, so the visual settings correspond to the checks (and resets) the sub page code does when one clicks on save)

Cheers,
Christos


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

I’ve tried to reproduce this and can’t. It seems everything is working as expected.


On Mar 8, 2021, at 2:59 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Mark,

Thanks. No, I doubt that I could get screwed up again. :-) I’m probably fine with that change (not home at the moment to check but will soon). My point was that unless the force-individual-email procedure itself is fixed/changed to also update the database, as you are going to do for the currently messed up subscriptions, I don’t see what prevents anyone who was No Email before the (original) changes, and who now sets themselves to FO, from having  the same result as I did. But I’ll test that out (out of curiosity, if nothing else) when I get back.


On Mar 8, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 2:27 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if by "fix existing subscriptions" you mean make the changes retroactive, I don't think it's a matter of that. Even after you fix existing subscriptions with the configuration I described, any member who is currently No Email could - even after you fix existing subscriptions - change to Following Only and I think you'd have the same problem. As I explained in the chronology, I was No Email before the changes, and I set myself to Following Only *after* the changes. But maybe I misunderstood.
 
For the one subscription in question, I just went into your Subscription page, and hit Save. That changed the database so that it had valid values. Can you now change it so that it no longer has valid values again? That is, can you now change that subscription (to FeralCats), so that it's No Email and also Following Only? And if so, how did you do it?

Thanks,
Mark

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

Mark,

On 2021-03-08 17:43, Mark Fletcher via groups.io wrote:
That is, can you now change that subscription (to FeralCats), so that it's No Email and also Following Only? And if so, how did you do it?

I just tested this with my beta subscription, which normally is Indiv+FO+FF+AFR.  I selected No email, and the code reset my message selection to All Messages.  Before hitting Save, I reselected*** FO+FF+AFR, (with NoEmail selected) then clicked save, but the code reset NoEmail back to Individual.


(*** right here, IMO FO should be disabled if NoEmail is selected, so the visual settings correspond to the checks (and resets) the sub page code does when one clicks on save)

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

 

IMO it comes down to the intent of the member, i.e., what they had in mind (or thought was going to happen) when they originally set their settings to FO+... or AFR, regardless of the NoEmail/SpecialNotices delivery selection.  Their "intent", as I interpret it, was that they would receive only messages they manually follow and nothing else (or just SpecialNotices as well).  So if one has [either FO, FO+FF, FO+AFR, or FO+FF+AFR selected] and [NoEmail or SpecialNotices], FO should take precedence IMO which means reset their delivery to Individual Messages, because that would achieve the intent (and end result) of receiving only messages/hashtags they manually follow and nothing else.  It's also consistent with what the (affected) user would get if they themselves went to their subscription screen and clicked on save, even without changing anything, since the code now checks and resets invalid combos.

In other words, I'd personally err on "giving them more than they thought they'd get" instead of "giving them less (or none) than they thought they'd get".  Either way may upset some of those folks, but personally I'd rather have a member be upset/annoyed at me for sending them more email than none at all; they can reset the first scenario because they are aware of it, but they won't know the second one is going on (for a while at least), and judging by the fact that some of us more knowledgeable folks were still fooled, imagine their case.

Another alternative could be to leave things as they are, and send a system email to the affected users only, instructing them to go and check/reset their subscription settings to ensure they are getting what they really meant to get.

Or reset the Message Selection to All Messages and send a system email to the group owners instructing them to let their members know to check/reset their subscription settings to ensure they are getting what they really meant to get.

Cheers,
Christos


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

 

On second thought I think going with the FO might be best. If someone starts receiving emails they don't want, they will notice and can easily fix it by going to No Email. But if they are missing emails, they might not even realize it.

On top of that, the problem I experienced was a consequence of the system trying, and failing, to set me to Individual Email after I set myself to FO because I wanted selected emails. I don't know if there are, or were, any screwups in the opposite direction, but I know that kind exists. So I'd be more inclined to err on the side of setting them to FO and Individual Email.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

 

Since you don't know which option they set last (as you do in the context of the recent changes, so that the last one takes precedence), I don't think it matters one way or the other.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

Duane
 

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 04:32 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Specifically, this is for subscriptions that are set to No Email or Special Notices Only and have a Message Selection setting not of All Messages.
I can see going both ways as well.  Chances are whichever you do will be 'wrong' for about half the people. ;>)  My choice would be to follow the No Email/Special Notices Only setting to get everything in sync.

Duane


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

Mark,

Thanks. No, I doubt that I could get screwed up again. :-) I’m probably fine with that change (not home at the moment to check but will soon). My point was that unless the force-individual-email procedure itself is fixed/changed to also update the database, as you are going to do for the currently messed up subscriptions, I don’t see what prevents anyone who was No Email before the (original) changes, and who now sets themselves to FO, from having  the same result as I did. But I’ll test that out (out of curiosity, if nothing else) when I get back.


On Mar 8, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 2:27 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if by "fix existing subscriptions" you mean make the changes retroactive, I don't think it's a matter of that. Even after you fix existing subscriptions with the configuration I described, any member who is currently No Email could - even after you fix existing subscriptions - change to Following Only and I think you'd have the same problem. As I explained in the chronology, I was No Email before the changes, and I set myself to Following Only *after* the changes. But maybe I misunderstood.
 
For the one subscription in question, I just went into your Subscription page, and hit Save. That changed the database so that it had valid values. Can you now change it so that it no longer has valid values again? That is, can you now change that subscription (to FeralCats), so that it's No Email and also Following Only? And if so, how did you do it?

Thanks,
Mark

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 2:27 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if by "fix existing subscriptions" you mean make the changes retroactive, I don't think it's a matter of that. Even after you fix existing subscriptions with the configuration I described, any member who is currently No Email could - even after you fix existing subscriptions - change to Following Only and I think you'd have the same problem. As I explained in the chronology, I was No Email before the changes, and I set myself to Following Only *after* the changes. But maybe I misunderstood.
 
For the one subscription in question, I just went into your Subscription page, and hit Save. That changed the database so that it had valid values. Can you now change it so that it no longer has valid values again? That is, can you now change that subscription (to FeralCats), so that it's No Email and also Following Only? And if so, how did you do it?

Thanks,
Mark


moderated How to fix out-of-bounds subscriptions #misc

 

Hi All,

I will go into the database and fix up subscriptions that have configurations that don't work. But I'm not sure which way to change things. Specifically, this is for subscriptions that are set to No Email or Special Notices Only and have a Message Selection setting not of All Messages.

Right now, these subscriptions are not getting messages from topics/hashtags they follow. And in the case of No Email, they're not getting any messages at all. Should I change their Email Delivery to Individual Messages? Or should I change their Message Selection to All Messages. I can see arguments for both.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 02:11 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
The solution is to go into the database and fix existing subscriptions that have these configurations.
Mark,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if by "fix existing subscriptions" you mean make the changes retroactive, I don't think it's a matter of that. Even after you fix existing subscriptions with the configuration I described, any member who is currently No Email could - even after you fix existing subscriptions - change to Following Only and I think you'd have the same problem. As I explained in the chronology, I was No Email before the changes, and I set myself to Following Only *after* the changes. But maybe I misunderstood.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 10:59 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

In a certain group, in which I also happen to be a mod, I set myself to No Email in December, before these changes went into effect (this is in my activity log). Later, and I believe this was in early March, after the changes went into effect (it is not logged, but I remember why I wanted to start following messages there, and it had to do with something that occurred in early March), I set myself to Following Only. That was post-changes. So at that point, I believe the system tried, as described above by Mark, to force-set me to Individual Messages. But that seems not to have worked. I am marked Individual Messages in name only: on my Subscription page and my Member page (as seen by moderators). Whereas in the Member List (as seen by moderators) and in the My Groups page, I am still No Email. And that is the true setting, because I in fact receive no email.

What is happening is, when the Subscription page is loaded, we 'fix' the settings as they appear on the web page. We don't make any changes to the database at that time. That's why you're seeing one thing on that page, and something different on the other pages. The solution is to go into the database and fix existing subscriptions that have these configurations. I have a question about how I should do that, and I'll post in a new topic.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

Alexis
 

saying that, what you are saying is no doubt true as well


moderated Re: spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

Alexis
 

ah, thanks for that...but it does seem to me more than just that.. As I said I send messages to myself and those that contained long lists of 'non-words' just vanished, yet all the others went through, so seems to be that spambot is rejecting certain messages and not others.


moderated Re: Disallow concurrent "special notices" and "following only" #suggestion #bug

 

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 07:05 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
if Email Delivery is set to `Special` or `No Email` and the Message Selection is changed from `All Messages`, we now force Email Delivery to `Individual Messages`.
I think I've finally located the bug I've been trying to decipher (and describe in a separate thread) for days. I believe there is a bug with the above and that this has nothing to do with the non-retroactivity. Here's the chronology.

In a certain group, in which I also happen to be a mod, I set myself to No Email in December, before these changes went into effect (this is in my activity log). Later, and I believe this was in early March, after the changes went into effect (it is not logged, but I remember why I wanted to start following messages there, and it had to do with something that occurred in early March), I set myself to Following Only. That was post-changes. So at that point, I believe the system tried, as described above by Mark, to force-set me to Individual Messages. But that seems not to have worked. I am marked Individual Messages in name only: on my Subscription page and my Member page (as seen by moderators). Whereas in the Member List (as seen by moderators) and in the My Groups page, I am still No Email. And that is the true setting, because I in fact receive no email.

So my hunch is that the force-setting to Individual Messages is failing.

The consequences of this bug are bad: namely, the member (in this case, me) has no way to receive emails from the group. The only thing the member can change is their subscription page, and that already looks correct. There's nothing left for them to change and they're basically stuck.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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