Date   

moderated Re: AOL problem

 

Chris,

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 05:33 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
How about switching the member's delivery to "No Email" (or "Special
Notices Only") in each of their subscriptions?
For the record, I've since decided that modifying the member's Email Delivery setting is the wrong approach.

Rather, I would have a new status, similar to "Bouncing" but operating on a per-group basis. I'm not sure what to call it ("Reported"?), but it would have the same effect as "Bouncing" - messages to that address cease until the member responds to a system notification.

Shal


moderated Re: AOL problem

 

The option to disable ‘no email’ was an extremely hard-won battle and removing it would be unacceptable. Moderators need to be able to ensure that they can reach all members with a special notice. Please let’s not revisit this crucial feature.


On May 8, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Chris Jones via Groups.Io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 05:33 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
How about switching the member's delivery to "No Email" (or "Special Notices Only") in each of their subscriptions?
This suggestion - made 18 months ago - is the subject of a current Poll on the GMF. Although the number of respondents is depressingly low, the vote is for exactly that. (FWIW the margin is 2.5:1)

However, some group owners do not allow "no emails" but I'm far from convinced that they should be allowed to hamstring the majority by retaining the current system.

In the meantime see the guidance in the GMF wiki here: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spam and point your members in its general direction; membership of the GMF is not required to read it. Another option is to copy it into your own wiki; it is there for the benefit of all, not just GMF members.

Chris

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: AOL problem

Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 05:33 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
How about switching the member's delivery to "No Email" (or "Special Notices Only") in each of their subscriptions?
This suggestion - made 18 months ago - is the subject of a current Poll on the GMF. Although the number of respondents is depressingly low, the vote is for exactly that. (FWIW the margin is 2.5:1)

However, some group owners do not allow "no emails" but I'm far from convinced that they should be allowed to hamstring the majority by retaining the current system.

In the meantime see the guidance in the GMF wiki here: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spam and point your members in its general direction; membership of the GMF is not required to read it. Another option is to copy it into your own wiki; it is there for the benefit of all, not just GMF members.

Chris


moderated Re: AOL problem

Tom Vail
 

Mark,

I'm a new kid on the block here, but this seems like a potentially significant problem.  I like Shal's suggestion of just turning off their email.  Then you send them a message (maybe from a different account/email address) letting them know they have not been kicked out, but have a problem they need to address.  That message should also have some helpful hints on how to resolve it.  Putting a banner on the top of the page when they get online that also informs them of the same would be helpful.

I think that has 3 advantages.  
1) They can still interact with the group, and for some online may be enough.  Plus they can not say they they were "kicked out" of the group, which it would look like to the uninformed.

2) As Shal suggested, 3 day is not enough.  Our group is made up of people who travel and may be out of touch for weeks at a time.  When away, they may not have access to email, but could have webaccess.  So they would be informed and could deal with it when they have better access.  

3) And for the the not so tech savvy, it would give them time to wait for their grandkids to visit to reslove the problem.

Peace,
Tom


moderated Re: "Click" access into Directory and Member lists by alphabet #suggestion

Toby Kraft
 

Two additional suggestions:
  1. Search by name 
  2. Switch display between grid and list
Thanks
Toby


moderated Meltdown/Spectre patching #downtime - Thu, 5/10/18 5:00am-7:00am #downtime #cal-reminder

main@beta.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
 

Reminder:
Meltdown/Spectre patching #downtime

When:
Thursday, 10 May 2018
5:00am to 7:00am
(GMT-07:00) America/Los Angeles

Description:

The final patching required to protect against the Meltdown and Spectre vulnerabilities will require downtime on May 10th, starting at 5AM Pacific Time. Two hours are allocated for the downtime, but hopefully it should be completed in much less time than that.

Email sent during the downtime will be queued and sent when the site is back up.

View Event.


moderated Re: LISTSERV #suggestion

 

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:41 PM, Michael Dunn <md@...> wrote:
Any chance we might see LISTSERV import added someday...? thx
_._,_._,_
We support importing archives if they are in mbox format. For member lists, just have one email address per line. I don't think we'll support any LISTSERV specific formats (if there are any, I'm unfamiliar with LISTSERV specifics).

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Member badges

 

How about, orange, THEN blue?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_1HlDCpJz8

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Member badges

Ginny T.
 

Ah - I agree with you, Duane - and thanks Mark...
Ginny

--
Ginny T.  gttemari21@...
========
TemariKai.com


moderated Feature Request: Sort Poll Results

Dave Friedman
 

When viewing poll results and clicking "See Who Responded", the entries seem to be ordered randomly each time the screen is refreshed.

When in that view, it would be great to have options to sort by name or sort by answer (so all 'yeses' are grouped together).

-Dave


moderated Re: Member badges

Duane
 

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 01:40 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
How about yellow?
That would work.  Or maybe orchid, orange, or mustard (assuming the same colors are available as hashtags.)

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: Member badges

 

Hi Duane,

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:55 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
It would be very helpful to me if the different badges shown on the Member page were different colors.  Since they can't (currently) be sorted, it would make it easier to find what I'm looking for.  Usually, I'm looking for NC, which I'd suggest be red.

Currently the bouncing B is red. How about yellow?

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Member badges

Duane
 

It would be very helpful to me if the different badges shown on the Member page were different colors.  Since they can't (currently) be sorted, it would make it easier to find what I'm looking for.  Usually, I'm looking for NC, which I'd suggest be red.

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

 

John,

1. ... a generic email/account confirmation message must ... be
replied to ... for ALL subscribe-by-email, ...
This is kind of an aside, but I also think there's a case to be made that confirmation can be skipped for an email +subscribe command if email authentication techniques can be used to have a relatively high certainty that the command was not forged ("spoofed"). I think that's likely to be the majority of all subscriptions by email.

That would apply to all of the email commands; they currently require a confirmation.

3. The real gist of the suggestion was (hopefully) to have this
confirmation email show an awareness of whether the group was Public,
Restricted with a Pending Subscription email (letting them know to
expect the email and to do what it asks) , or Restricted with NO
Pending Subscription email (letting them know to expect a response
from a moderator).
I thought it was to customize the message to distinguish between groups with Restricted Membership versus those with open membership. That's the context of my suggestion.

I didn't consider the case of a group with Restricted Membership that does not set an active Pending Subscription notice. Fortunately, my suggested wording doesn't promise such a notice.

Shal


moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

 

Tom,

If the spam thing is a concern because there is no email address, how about using both the title and the address in just the first sentence? 

My concern about the title has to do with the arbitrary content which a group owner/mod might include in the title. Even if not intended as spam, words or phrases used in the title could be problematic.

    Thank you for your interest in the widget group (main@widget.groups.io) at Groups.io.  ...

Otherwise I like your phrasing. It will be up to Groups.io to decide if the possible risk outweighs the potential benefit of a clearer message.

As to the moderator's email address, I had not considered them not accepting email from the group.  (What kind of moderator does not communicate with their group?) 

It isn't so much "from the group" in that this message would presumably be from someone who isn't yet a member. And each owner/moderator has a control for that in their subscription page:



So yes that could be a problem.  I was just thinking of trying to give folks someone other than you for first level help with problems.  Maybe it could be conditional as well?

Well, not me, as I don't work for Groups.io. I like the idea of giving the person a contact address for the group; apart from that one caveat.

And of course, there's nothing Groups.io can do about an owner/moderator who either deliberately filter's +owner messages in their email interface, or neglects to make sure they don't get lost in Spam or elsewhere, but I'd say that's "on them".

Shal


moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

john@...
 

This suggestion was a result of the following conversation:

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/member_subscription_request/18124193?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,40,18124193

I had asked why the "Pending Subscription" "Member Notice" could not serve the function of confirming ownership of the submitted email address.  Shal's reply was:

       That's because in the spoofed case you would be email-bombing an unexpecting person with your Pending notice. Worse, you might be a nefarious group owner doing that deliberately as a spam delivery mechanism.

I learned a lot in reading the replies above.  This is part summary and part suggestion. 

1.  To avoid the possibility of a "Pending Subscription" email being used as a spam delivery vehicle, it seems like a generic email/account confirmation message must go to the email address and be replied to before the "Pending Subscription" message is sent out for ALL subscribe-by-email, as well as for web-based subscription requests NOT originating from an existing, logged in groups.io account.

2.  The clarity of the generic confirmation email subject line would improve by using the words "email / account", which would also begin to link the two in the mind of the new user. There could be wording in the email letting them know that a either a click on a "confirm" link or an actual email reply are equivalent, and is necessary before their subscription request for GroupName can be processed.
Subject: Reply required to confirm your groups.io email address / account

3.  The real gist of the suggestion was (hopefully) to have this confirmation email show an awareness of whether the group was Public, Restricted with a Pending Subscription email (letting them know to expect the email and to do what it asks) , or Restricted with NO Pending Subscription email (letting them know to expect a response from a moderator). 

4.  Depending on the case in (3) above, language linking the words "subscription" and the Group Name would further help distinguish the meaning of account vs subscription.

John


moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

Tom Vail
 

Shal,

I like where this is going.  Your suggested text looks good.  (Although of course mine is better 😀)  If the spam thing is a concern because there is no email address, how about using both the title and the address in just the first sentence?  ie: 

    Thank you for your interest in the widget group (main@widget.groups.io) at Groups.io.  ...

I would think that would help pass the spam filters.

As to the moderator's email address, I had not considered them not accepting email from the group.  (What kind of moderator does not communicate with their group?)  So yes that could be a problem.  I was just thinking of trying to give folks someone other than you for first level help with problems.  Maybe it could be conditional as well?

Peace,
Tom


moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

 

Shal, my test account received the same message. I think it should be shortened as you suggest, to avoid confusion,
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

 

J,

But I still see a problem with either method, namely: once the person already has a groups.io account, it is confusing for the confirmation email to refer to their interest in groups.io in general, rather than only to the specific group.
In recently joining groups by email, using an address that already has an account, I received a much shorter confirmation notice (in plain text):

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in Groups.io and the group main@shalstest.groups.io. To complete your subscription, please reply to this email.

If you did not request - or do not want - a subscription to this group, please accept our apologies and ignore this message.


Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

I don't recall specifically whether the group was restricted or not at that time, but to your point while the reference to Groups.io may be superfluous I don't think it is confusing. Particularly not for someone that already has an account and so has some experience with the distinction between Groups.io (the service) and shalstest (the group). 

I suppose it could be rephrased as: "Thank you for your interest in main@shalstest.groups.io, a group hosted by Groups.io."

Shal


moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

 

Tom,

The next step is for you to confirm your email address to activate your account with Groups.io.  This will not activate your membership with the [group title] group if they require your membership to be approved by a real person.  You will receive an additional email from them with more details once your email address has been confirmed.   

I know what you're trying to get at, but I don't think that is any clearer than what's there. Setting aside for the moment my concern over including the group's title text, how about:

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in the [Group email address replace group email address with group title] group at Groups.io. If you did not request or do not want to join [Group email address title], please ignore this message.

There are two ways to interact with Groups.io groups:

     If you only want to send and receive email messages from [Group email address title], reply to this email to confirm your email address and [submit your membership application if the group is restricted, else activate your membership].

[Once your application is approved by the group's moderators: if the group is restricted]

  • Messages will be sent to you at [their email address] 
  • Send messages to [group email address]

     If you want to use the resources and read messages on the [group title] website, please click on the link below to confirm your email address, set up a password, and choose other subscription settings:

      [Confirm account link]

If you have any questions, please contact the [group title] group moderator at [group moderator email address].


Cheers,
The Groups.io Team
The if the group is restricted statements are not intended to be included in the notice, rather they indicate optional text that would be governed by the Restricted Membership checkbox of the group.

That last, about contacting the group moderators, might need to be omitted or at least conditional upon whether any moderators of that group have opted to receive messages from non-members. It would be cruel to give that advice if none have.

Shal

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