Date   

moderated Re: "Down for maintenance" -- time to grow up...

Chris Jones
 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:28 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
I see nothing wrong with this bit of whimsy. Growing up is optional, even with the largest of tech companies.
I have to agree with that, though I agree that the planned downtime could have been better announced, particularly for paid - for groups.

Chris


moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

 

Alexis,

I was under the impression that all plain text emails had a max line
length of 80 is it?
80 includes the ASCII CR and LF characters that terminate the line. So 78 message characters. But that's the original email standard.

In the current standard:

2.1.1. Line Length Limits

There are two limits that this specification places on the number of
characters in a line. Each line of characters MUST be no more than
998 characters, and SHOULD be no more than 78 characters, excluding
the CRLF.
...
Again, even though this limitation is put
on messages, it is incumbent upon implementations that display
messages to handle an arbitrarily large number of characters in a
line (certainly at least up to the 998 character limit) for the sake
of robustness.
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5322.txt

As for HTML emails, well I think they are the anti christ and besides,
any properly formatted HTML email SHOULD have a plain text version as
well.
Heh, while I've often said something similar, a proposal to display the text/plain part instead of the text/HTML part in a Multipart/Alternative message body would be a separate option (I'd think) from just providing a fixed-pitch font option.

What I missed out was that all my lists are set to plain text only, so
html is not an issue....so your suggestion of adding it to a group's
settings opposed to a user's settings, makes more sense.
No, I specifically did NOT suggest that it be a group setting. Rather a viewing option, more like forward or reverse date order when looking at a list of messages. Something you can change on the spot when you see that a message doesn't look the way you want it to.

Shal

/"\
\ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML Mail
/ \


moderated Re: "Down for maintenance" -- time to grow up...

 

Steve,

*1. Send out an email to all group owners, letting them know of the
start time and estimated duration*
Perhaps group owners should have, or be offered, a default subscription to http://status.groups.io/

Of course the corollary to that is that the outage be listed there.

*3. /Can the cat pictures/. It may have been cute when groups.io
started, but it's time to "grow up" and put up a professional message
of the site's status, ...
I see nothing wrong with this bit of whimsy. Growing up is optional, even with the largest of tech companies.
https://www.google.com/doodles

Anyone remember this guy?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/6210313586/

Shal


moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

Alexis
 

I was under the impression that all plain text emails had a max line length of 80 is it? Can't remember exactly offhand. Anyways, with that, there should be no issues with the line being too long for the display window. Unless of course the email has not been properly formatted.

As for HTML emails, well I think they are the anti christ and besides, any properly formatted HTML email SHOULD have a plain text version as well.

What I missed out was that all my lists are set to plain text only, so html is not an issue....so your suggestion of adding it to a group's settings opposed to a user's settings, makes more sense.

Alexis

On 10/05/2018 23:49, Shal Farley wrote:
Alexis,

> So that is all I am asking, that we have the option to 'add' the <pre>
> tag to all messages we view online
I'd recommend against <pre>, as it has the primary effect of eliminating word-wrap and replacing it with a horizontal scroll (when the source line is too long for the display window).
Rather I'd suggest what you started with: use a fixed pitch font.
I think it makes sense to apply to messages that have only a text/plain message body. I'm not sure if it would be useful or just annoying to apply it as a default font for text/HTML message bodies.
Shal


moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

 

Alexis,

So that is all I am asking, that we have the option to 'add' the <pre>
tag to all messages we view online
I'd recommend against <pre>, as it has the primary effect of eliminating word-wrap and replacing it with a horizontal scroll (when the source line is too long for the display window).

Rather I'd suggest what you started with: use a fixed pitch font.

I think it makes sense to apply to messages that have only a text/plain message body. I'm not sure if it would be useful or just annoying to apply it as a default font for text/HTML message bodies.

Shal


moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

 

Alexis,

Might it be possible to have a 'fixed width formatting' option when
viewing messages on the web front end.
I second that motion.

If it is possible, might you be able to make a setting in each
member's profile so they view all messages in this format, or if not,
how about within each group's setting's details.
I'd rather have it be handy, as a view option when looking at messages. I'd have it apply to all the text/plain message bodies being displayed on the current page. I'd like to have it remembered as you navigate the site.

That is, I'd rather not have it tucked away in my profile where I have to go find it to change it, nor would I (as a member) want to have to pester the group admins to change it on a group-wide basis.

Shal


moderated Re: "Down for maintenance" -- time to grow up...

 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 08:15 pm, Steve wrote:
Can the cat pictures.
That would be unacceptable! >_<
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated "Down for maintenance" -- time to grow up...

 

When you have advance notice that the groups.io site needs to be turned off for maintenance, etc.

1. Send out an email to all group owners, letting them know of the start time and estimated duration

2. Do #1 with as much advance notice as you can provide, so owners can alert their members

3. Can the cat pictures.  It may have been cute when groups.io started, but it's time to "grow up" and put up a professional message of the site's status, so that any member who didn't get a heads up from their group owner, knows what's going on.

Seriously, please.


moderated Email daily summary

Tom Vail
 

I can not get this group (beta) to give me just a daily summary of messages.  I have reset it several times, gone back to summery, but to no avail.

I know I must just be holding my mouth wrong, but can someone help me out?


moderated Re: Formatting Wiki Pages

Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:31 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:
We do strip a lot of inline styles, but (hopefully) none of the ones used by the editor. So if you're just using editor functions to format things, it should all work ok. Are there specific CSS attributes you would like to see not stripped? (we mainly strip to prevent attack vectors).
I'm using the "Source Code" editor to insert inline styles. It's these that are subsequently stripped. I want to use styles that do not seem to be available via the editor. For example, when I insert an image, I can change dimensions only via the editor, I can't scale it to a fraction of the page width, I can't float it to the right margin, etc.

I'm not looking for anything elaborate. Just basic stuff like text-align, float, width, border, etc.

It's my understanding from discussions in GMF that GIO uses a "bootstrap" set of style sheets (getbootstrap.com). Unfortunately I've not been able to find these in human-readable form. Simply knowing what styles are already defined so I could implement the classes via the source code editor would help as a first approximation. I was already able to do that with aligning an image to the right margin using class=pull-right. 

I hope that makes things more clear.

Thanks,
Bruce


moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

Alexis
 

and as I suspected, viewing this message online removes the 'alignment' :)


moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

Alexis
 

Thanks for your response Gerald


Here is an example

VHIQR 20180501 1201 XA0000 (GBLXRS BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
CGDPF 20180501 1821 XA0000 (CL60 BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
OYMSI 20180501 0918 XA0000 (GBLX BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
CGWHF 20180501 1503 XA0000 (GBLXRS BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
GWIRG 20180501 1844 ZD0000 (E135BJ BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
VPCRA 20180501 1247 ZD0000 (E135BJ BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)

If I create this on the website then the 'column' alignment disappears due to the width of each character. But creating it, like i have now using thunderbird, set to plain text, is appears fine.

The original when posted, came through in my inbox just fine, when viewed online was all over the place, BUT when I went to view source, the alignment re-appeared.

Looking at the source coding for the website, this appears to be because when viewing the source the <PRE> tag is used. So that is all I am asking, that we have the option to 'add' the <pre> tag to all messages we view online rather than having to scroll to the bottom of some 4,000+ line emails and then click on 'More' and then 'view source' :)
I realise this would not affect most people's groups, but as it would mean an extremely minor addition to the coding, I ask :)

btw, the bulk of the messages being posted to my lists are not posted via web clients, or web front ends, rather directly from purpose built software, and generally just use the basic email headers

Cheers
Alexis

On 10/05/2018 16:26, Gerald Boutin wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:22 pm, Gerald Boutin wrote:
Alexis,
I did a quick test and if you generate a text only message using an email
client (eg Gmail) with a fixed width font, it renders properly when viewed
on the groups.io web interface. Since there seems to be no way to chose a
font online when composing, I don't see how you could directly generate a
fixed width font post online.
Here's a sample I just pasted from a text message i sent to myself earlier
for testing.
Fixed width font < 4 Spaces < 5 spaces
sdjhsdjklkjsadkj < sdsadkjsdkl < skldjasklj
The above rows should be aligned.
--
Gerald
Well, it was in fixed width font (monospace) while I was composing the message,
but the formatting didn't come through.
--
Gerald


moderated Feature Request: Folder Level Security #suggestion

Jerry Rogers
 

I searched several times and could not find a thread to see what Management's opinion on this was, if I missed it I apologize.

Could it be looked into to develop/share a method of securing certain folders, and allowing members to modify another? 

Example:
  • Folder 1, only moderators can modify.
  • Folder 2, any member can modify.
  • Folder 3, only one person can modify (and the moderators/owner).
Thoughts? 

-Jerry


moderated Re: AOL problem

 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:17 pm, Toby Kraft wrote:
unsubscribing the member (which to many seems rather draconian). 
But again, my comparison was not with respect to the user experience. I understand that the proposed method is better in terms of user experience. My question is, and has always been: how does the proposed method solve the (perceived) problem? In other words, how is the proposed method any better than sub/unsub in terms of ensuring that the spam issue will not happen again with respect to a particular user? In the unsub/sub situation, the user simply has to click on a link to resubscribe. They are warned about, but not forced to take any action with respect to, their spam filter. The proposed method seems similar in that regard - again, unless I am missing something.

You mention you direct-add unsubscribed members, but the free plan groups do not have direct-add 
I mentioned that only to show that unsub/sub has not accomplished anything, at least in the case of my group. It has been no more disastrous to simply add the member back in than to make them jump the hoop of clicking on a link to resub. The resub link (just like the proposed method) to me is like "wink, wink, see, you had to do something." Nobody has ever been unsubbed twice for marking a message as spam. That was my sole point here. I am fully aware that basic-level groups can't direct-add members

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:22 pm, Gerald Boutin wrote:
Alexis,

I did a quick test and if you generate a text only message using an email client  (eg Gmail) with a fixed width font, it renders properly when viewed on the groups.io web interface. Since there seems to be no way to chose a font online when composing, I don't see how you could directly generate a fixed width font post online.

Here's a sample I just pasted from a text message i sent to myself earlier for testing.

Fixed width font    < 4 Spaces     < 5 spaces
sdjhsdjklkjsadkj    < sdsadkjsdkl  < skldjasklj
 
The above rows should be aligned.


--
Gerald
Well, it was in fixed width font (monospace) while I was composing the message, but the formatting didn't come through.
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 12:22 pm, Alexis wrote:
Hi,

Might it be possible to have a 'fixed width formatting' option when viewing messages on the web front end. I am a member of a number of gorups that produce emails with large lists of which each column is padded out with spaces to keep the allignment of the columns. All these groups use plain text emails only, primarily to keep message sizes down as a 4,000 line email in plain text can be 56k, whereas in HTML could be 4Mb.
If it is possible, might you be able to make a setting in each member's profile so they view all messages in this format, or if not, how about within each group's setting's details.

Just transferred in from yahoogroups and I have to say a big congratulations on setting up an alternative to them and googlegroups, and just love your transfer routine..big BIG thumbs up

Cheers
Alexis

Alexis,

I did a quick test and if you generate a text only message using an email client  (eg Gmail) with a fixed width font, it renders properly when viewed on the groups.io web interface. Since there seems to be no way to chose a font online when composing, I don't see how you could directly generate a fixed width font post online.

Here's a sample I just pasted from a text message i sent to myself earlier for testing.

Fixed width font    < 4 Spaces     < 5 spaces
sdjhsdjklkjsadkj    < sdsadkjsdkl  < skldjasklj
 
The above rows should be aligned.


--
Gerald


moderated Re: AOL problem

Toby Kraft
 

J, 
I appreciate your comments and they are always insightful...

Re: (paraphrased) how is the proposed method ("spam block") any different or better than the current method ("unsubscribe")?
What's proposed, IMHO, is a more graceful way of responding to the spam report than unsubscribing the member (which to many seems rather draconian).  Since it would be enabled on a per-group basis, group owner/mods would never see it unless it was enabled.

You mention you direct-add unsubscribed members, but the free plan groups do not have direct-add so it's more problematic for them to get the member resubscribed.

Thanks
Toby


moderated Fixed Width Formatting

Alexis
 

Hi,

Might it be possible to have a 'fixed width formatting' option when viewing messages on the web front end. I am a member of a number of gorups that produce emails with large lists of which each column is padded out with spaces to keep the allignment of the columns. All these groups use plain text emails only, primarily to keep message sizes down as a 4,000 line email in plain text can be 56k, whereas in HTML could be 4Mb.
If it is possible, might you be able to make a setting in each member's profile so they view all messages in this format, or if not, how about within each group's setting's details.

Just transferred in from yahoogroups and I have to say a big congratulations on setting up an alternative to them and googlegroups, and just love your transfer routine..big BIG thumbs up

Cheers
Alexis


moderated Re: Formatting Wiki Pages

 

Hello,

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 6:04 PM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
The wiki editor does not appear to support inline styles (they are stripped when you save). Even things like {float:right} are stripped. Because of this, I've had to resort to long-deprecated HTML usage just to get an image to scale properly and align to the right margin.


We do strip a lot of inline styles, but (hopefully) none of the ones used by the editor. So if you're just using editor functions to format things, it should all work ok. Are there specific CSS attributes you would like to see not stripped? (we mainly strip to prevent attack vectors).

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: AOL problem

 

And to emphasize my point: unsub/resub seems like essentially a no-op anyway. In GMF (I’m no longer there) I heard arguments that it’s useful because it forces the member to do something affirmative to stay in the group. But I disagree that it creates a meaningful barrier. The whole process currently, and as proposed, strikes me as a ridiculous charade. I direct-add my unsubbed members back in to save them the confusion and the headache. And despite that, the same member has never been slammed twice in a row. It seems almost random.


On May 10, 2018, at 9:24 AM, Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:

I think that Catlady hit the nail on the thumb, none of our  schemes is any better than the simple unsubscribe.

I tried to stop looking at this thread because it's a really tough knot to open for so many reasons.

One of the biggest problems is that in many cases, the intended recipient is not informed of the groups.io message being intercepted and never delivered to them in any form.  Input from groups.io just stops because it's turned back at the email supplier.
In that case, there is no communication possible between groups.io and the intended recipient to instruct the recipient, period, so all schemes depending on communication are not possible.

Secondly, people do not like change and in many cases are fiercely loyal to their email provider often just because they don't want to have to leave a familiar environment or don't wish to lose the "freebees" provided by the email provider for the express purpose of keeping them as clients.

So showing them how to set up any new provider account doesn't seem an option.

Finally, I'm going to ignore this thread unless Mark introduces a change to the current process of handling spam notices.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

11121 - 11140 of 27950