Date   

moderated Re: Group Setting to Enable From Address via groups.io #suggestion

Pete AE5PL
 

I like all but 3 should not be a premium/enterprise option.  I would want it for my basic group which got transferred from Y! groups for 3 reasons:

1. There are over 700 members comprised of people mostly unaware of the mail server options they have and are used to things working with the Y! group construct.
2. While I can turn it on for my account so I can see my messages, this does fix the issue of other people's addresses failing SPF validation when they have not turned it on.
3. Many people create rules so if the message is from groups.io with the group keyword in the subject, the email is moved to a specific folder.  Without that indicator, their could be private messages, for instance, being put into the wrong folder.  Simply a convenience in my reason #3.

Also, #2, I think, should read "users from smaller sites -not- implementing DMARC" since, it is my understanding, groups.io automatically enables it when it sees DMARC configured for a domain.

Pete


moderated Re: Group Setting to Enable From Address via groups.io #suggestion

 

How about both a group setting and an individual setting?

1. If a user is using a known-must-munge site like yahoo.com, the checkbox is on the user's settings, checked, and grayed out (disabled).

2. If a user is using something else, the checkbox is still on the user's settings, unchecked by default, but the user can check it. Then users from smaller sites implementing DMARC can also go and fix things themselves.

3. A group level checkbox can also be available that applies it to all messages sent to the group. This might be a premium/enterprise option, given that basic groups could just ask problem users to go fix it themselves.

JohnF


moderated Re: Site updates #changelog

 

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 7:19 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 06:12 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
>
> NEW: You can now export all parts of your group
>

Except for the activity log(s)...


I hadn't actually thought about that. But now, you can also export the activity logs. It's a HTML file, one log entry per line.

Exporting a group also generates an activity log event.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Group Setting to Enable From Address via groups.io #suggestion

Pete AE5PL
 

I think that would be better as an account option that could be enabled by the affected recipients, similar to the Message-ID munging option (I always want copies of my own messages) for Gmail users.
I disagree since the reason it exists at all now is because it is beyond the individual user's control (DMARC accommodation).  Also, the individual user doesn't know that someone else has an SPF filter that is looking at both SMTP and header from addresses to further reduces SPAM.  As I said in my post, if this is an option at the group level, the group owner can make the decision for this to be common for all group members or as it is now, automatic for those providers that support and have well-defined DMARC settings.  If you want to -also- add the ability for users to enable this on their accounts, I think that would be great, too!  This removes those users from being at the mercy of group owners who do not want to provide global support.

So doing -both-, in my opinion, would be optimal but a minimum should be for group owners to set it and not leave it to individuals to understand how their provider is configured.  I would add that in the case of the individual control, users should be able to do it at the account level, not at the individual subscription level (the later would never get done or done properly).  Users must be given the least amount of pain to be a member of a group and group owners can manage how their groups appear to the users.  Group owner option does achieves these 2 goals for groups; account-level option aids users who otherwise have no control within groups that don't do this.

Pete


moderated Re: Group Setting to Enable From Address via groups.io #suggestion

Pete AE5PL
 

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 10:25 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I think perhaps the best thing to do is to add a checkbox, separate from Reply To, that when checked will munge all From lines in messages to a group. Perhaps call it 'Convert All Email From Addresses To Be From Groups.io' with the help text being: "Only use this feature if you use Office 365 and have had complaints from users about email spoofing.'
I would use a more generic "Only use this feature if you have had complaints from users about blocked emails or emails marked as SPAM for no apparent reason."  I believe this extends beyond Exchange servers (definitely beyond Office 365) to provider servers that do extended SPF checking and internal domain checking to prevent/reduce phishing attacks and spoofed email address attacks for users.  While primarily corporate servers will have this protection in place, it appears there are commercial vendors that do similar SPF checking and internal domain blocking independent of DMARC.

Pete


moderated Re: Group Setting to Enable From Address via groups.io #suggestion

 


I think perhaps the best thing to do is to add a checkbox, separate from Reply To, that when checked will munge all From lines in messages to a group. Perhaps call it 'Convert All Email From Addresses To Be From Groups.io' with the help text being: "Only use this feature if you use Office 365 and have had complaints from users about email spoofing.'

I think that would be better as an account option that could be enabled by the affected recipients, similar to the Message-ID munging option (I always want copies of my own messages) for Gmail users.
 
Shal


moderated Re: Export group

 

Bruce,

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 1:29 PM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
Submitted my request more than two hours ago...no response. I guess when you have 468 members in beta and all of them try to do this at the same time, it takes a little longer than 10 minutes. :-)


Please try again, it should be fixed now.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Group Setting to Enable From Address via groups.io #suggestion

 

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 6:09 AM, Pete AE5PL <HamLists@...> wrote:
We have a number of users who are either using email via on-premise Exchange, hosted Exchange, or Office 365 business/enterprise.  Exchange checks both the envelope-From address (SMTP FROM) and the header-From address (actual From address in email) for both SPF and internal domain blocking.  While this is not true of all mail server software, it is true of all Exchange server versions which encompasses the vast majority of enterprise and business email servers.  Recently (within the past year), Office 365 finally implemented DMARC on their servers for North America customers but not all customers have had the knowledge or initiative to properly implement it.

With that background, I am appreciative of the group.io team in implementing auto-change on the header From address for detected DMARC reject domains.  However, most Exchange installations do not implement DMARC because it would need to be implemented via third-party software and would require DNS changes. Most Exchange email users do not have access to any of this to make alterations and therefore are stuck with emails they originate getting bounced when sent back through groups.io or having other peoples' emails getting bounced due to SPF failure.  While you may disagree with how Microsoft implemented SPF and domain validation, it is what it is and has been this way for over a decade (don't expect any changes now).

Thank you for that explanation! This has been something that I've been dealing with for a year now, and I was unable to get an explanation of what was going on from anyone, mainly because I think most people didn't understand what was happening.

 
I am requesting that, in addition to the Reply to Group setting, we have the ability to turn on the "via groups.io" setting for all users in a group.  This would allow group owners to resolve this issue with business-class mail servers for their individual group(s) without adversely affecting other groups.

I think perhaps the best thing to do is to add a checkbox, separate from Reply To, that when checked will munge all From lines in messages to a group. Perhaps call it 'Convert All Email From Addresses To Be From Groups.io' with the help text being: "Only use this feature if you use Office 365 and have had complaints from users about email spoofing.'

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Group Setting to Enable From Address via groups.io #suggestion

Pete AE5PL
 

We have a number of users who are either using email via on-premise Exchange, hosted Exchange, or Office 365 business/enterprise.  Exchange checks both the envelope-From address (SMTP FROM) and the header-From address (actual From address in email) for both SPF and internal domain blocking.  While this is not true of all mail server software, it is true of all Exchange server versions which encompasses the vast majority of enterprise and business email servers.  Recently (within the past year), Office 365 finally implemented DMARC on their servers for North America customers but not all customers have had the knowledge or initiative to properly implement it.

With that background, I am appreciative of the group.io team in implementing auto-change on the header From address for detected DMARC reject domains.  However, most Exchange installations do not implement DMARC because it would need to be implemented via third-party software and would require DNS changes. Most Exchange email users do not have access to any of this to make alterations and therefore are stuck with emails they originate getting bounced when sent back through groups.io or having other peoples' emails getting bounced due to SPF failure.  While you may disagree with how Microsoft implemented SPF and domain validation, it is what it is and has been this way for over a decade (don't expect any changes now).

I am requesting that, in addition to the Reply to Group setting, we have the ability to turn on the "via groups.io" setting for all users in a group.  This would allow group owners to resolve this issue with business-class mail servers for their individual group(s) without adversely affecting other groups.

Thank you for hearing my request.  Hopefully we can see a resolution with relatively little pain to groups.io and our users.

Pete


moderated Re: Can't edit hashtag

 

Whether or not it's limited to a specific browser, and whether or not someone knows that detail, it's a bug and does not belong in beta. If it was a user issue ("how do I edit") it likewise does not belong in beta but in GMF. 

As for your comment "claws away," that definitely does not belong here and I hope Mark will close down this thread.

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can't edit hashtag

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 09:48 am, J_Catlady wrote:
If the edit function is broken ( which it is in safari) I don’t think anyone could interpret it as anything but a bug.
Unless he had a range of other Browsers available the fact that the problem was limited to Safari might not be immediately obvious.,

Claws away, please!

Chris


moderated Re: Can't edit hashtag

 

Well, just bring informative since there are a lot of new people here (including you, I think?) If the edit function is broken ( which it is in safari) I don’t think anyone could interpret it as anything but a bug. 😊


On May 13, 2018, at 9:44 AM, Chris Jones via Groups.Io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 09:22 am, J_Catlady wrote:
Bugs are supposed to be reported to support, not beta.
Perhaps he didn't realise it was a bug.

Chris

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can't edit hashtag

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 09:22 am, J_Catlady wrote:
Bugs are supposed to be reported to support, not beta.
Perhaps he didn't realise it was a bug.

Chris


moderated Re: Can't edit hashtag

 

ps Bugs are supposed to be reported to support, not beta.


On May 13, 2018, at 9:20 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

That’s a Safari link issue thst Mark is working on fixing. For now, do a right click to open the link in another window or tab, or use a different browser.


On May 13, 2018, at 7:48 AM, Tom Vail <Tom@...> wrote:

When I go to the Hashtag tab, I see the box for each of my hashtags and the edit button seems hot, but when I click on it it goes to the messages under that tag.  It does not open the edit screen?  Where am I going wrong?

Peace,
Tom

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can't edit hashtag

 

That’s a Safari link issue thst Mark is working on fixing. For now, do a right click to open the link in another window or tab, or use a different browser.


On May 13, 2018, at 7:48 AM, Tom Vail <Tom@...> wrote:

When I go to the Hashtag tab, I see the box for each of my hashtags and the edit button seems hot, but when I click on it it goes to the messages under that tag.  It does not open the edit screen?  Where am I going wrong?

Peace,
Tom

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Can't edit hashtag

Tom Vail
 

When I go to the Hashtag tab, I see the box for each of my hashtags and the edit button seems hot, but when I click on it it goes to the messages under that tag.  It does not open the edit screen?  Where am I going wrong?

Peace,
Tom


moderated Re: Digests do not automatically include the message replied to

Paul Fraser <paul1959fraser@...>
 

Ronaldo wrote:

Groups.io digests strip out the message that is replied to
err..no. it removes everything under the last unindented line, and If I had my way this would be the standard - as it supports traditional quoting in "usenet" and most decent discussion-lists.
I’m not sure what the difference in the end result is. Ideally our users would reply in a format similar to this post but they are either unable to do so or unable to learn. PS, the way the indenting works on the plain text digest (?) the one space indent is not particularly obvious.


If people put their comments/answers UNDER the relevant/respective pieces of quote, there is no problem.
That requires people to adapt to the software and not vice versa. This is the tail wagging the dog.


Is it possible to change
groups.io digests so they mirror Yahoogroups behaviour?
What behaviour do you mean exactly? Sending along the entire message replied to, and the one that replied to, and the one before that?
That would not be practical


That is what Yahoo Groups’ digests do now, so not ‘impractical’. Shal mentioned in another message a limited quote function. The first previous message, or a set number of lines would provide enough context for a non-quoting reply.
i concede that that this does not seem to be a big problem elsewhere but I thought I would ask :)

--
Paul Fraser


moderated Re: Digests do not automatically include the message replied to

Paul Fraser <paul1959fraser@...>
 

Shal Farley wrote:

>>Later I proposed a snippet of the quoted message, rather than the whole
quote, might provide sufficient context in the majority of cases. That
is probably simpler to implement than my prior suggestion (so more
likely to be implemented). It would also have the benefit of being
briefer, keeping the Digest more readable.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/2267

That would be a good solution. How do I support this?

>>>> PS I’ve found a way to fudge the issue (by turning on the signature
> block) for all users except those who reply via the web interface
> without quoting the message they are replying to.

>>Hm... That might represent a bug of sorts. You mean the quote detection
fails when there's a trailing sig applied by the group?

If I understand it correctly, this works for allpoting types bar web interface non-quoting replies.
Thanks for your reply.
--
Paul Fraser


moderated Re: Digests do not automatically include the message replied to

ro-esp
 

On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 07:02 am, Paul Fraser wrote:

Groups.io digests strip out the message that is replied to
err..no. it removes everything under the last unindented line, and If I had my way this would be the standard - as it supports traditional quoting in "usenet" and most decent discussion-lists.

If people put their comments/answers UNDER the relevant/respective pieces of quote, there is no problem.

Is it possible to change
groups.io digests so they mirror Yahoogroups behaviour?
What behaviour do you mean exactly? Sending along the entire message replied to, and the one that replied to, and the one before that?
That would not be practical

groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated Re: "Down for maintenance" -- time to grow up...

 

https://groups.io/maintenance/index.html

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

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