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moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 07:21 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
I just don't feel any need to keep myself on moderation because I'm the gatekeeper of moderation and am acutely aware of what's moderated.
I only do it to give myself a chance to edit my posts.
I agree with you on being aware of the responsibility of being a moderator.
And I, too, use the web interface most of the time. I use email basically only as a preview, and sometimes to respond when I'm out of the house.
But I don't understand what you mean by "if I am replying to a locked or moderated topic..." (emphasis added), because currently you can't respond to a locked topic. I do see another post by you below and will check to see if you amended this there.
 
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J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I guess I shouldn't say "unmoderate," per se, but even to have to approve my own posts.  It's an extra step I just don't want to have to take.

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Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 09:59 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
It seems like the other way ("reply and lock") would be much easier to implement, though.
Perhaps, I really can't say.  I find the idea of moderators being "superusers," group owners being "super superusers," and Mark (or the site admin) being "God," as far as permissions go, with each level always having set privileges that include the ability to add to any thread under their respective control much easier to implement.  It also seems to me that with increasing responsibility it's implicitly expected that those having it will be more cautious and circumspect in their actions.  I know I am.

It's so interesting how one's own experience shapes how one views this.  As a moderator I do not want to have to "unmoderate" a topic, even momentarily, if I want to post to it myself.  It sounds like you're just the opposite.  I just don't feel any need to keep myself on moderation because I'm the gatekeeper of moderation and am acutely aware of what's moderated.

But, a lot of that also comes from the fact that I use the web interface almost exclusively, where the graphics that come with topics indicating something is moderated or locked are virtually impossible to miss.  If I am replying to a locked or moderated topic it's a very conscious choice.
 
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Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

 

It seems like the other way ("reply and lock") would be much easier to implement, though. I don't know how difficult it would be to make exceptions to locked topics for moderators. I also would not want exceptions for moderators to moderated topics, because I myself want to keep myself on moderation. So in that case, "reply and moderate" would just be very convenient.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

 

Yes, that's true. Locking a topic first, and then responding to it as moderator, would have the same effect.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 08:15 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
That's not related to this issue, although I agree with that suggestion as well. This issue is being able to lock or moderate a topic quickly enough, before anybody jumps into the conversation. 
The title of this topic is "reply and . . .".   That directly implies the topic already exists.   Being able to lock same, or impose moderation on same, then retain the ability to add to it as a moderator or owner gives the same end result.

If you're talking about "post initial and lock/moderate" that's a different issue.  But I'd say in way more than 90% of cases if you post a new topic and the next thing you do is lock/moderate it the chances of a "jump in" is very slim indeed (and you can remove it, if necessary).

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Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: First pass at a group payments help section

 

Just thought of something else: Will groups have the ability to specify the currency? Say a group of Europeans wants to charge in Euro, for example.

JohnF


moderated Re: First pass at a group payments help section

 

From a member perspective, there should be a way to be notified that a charge is pending, and giving me a chance to quit the group and avoid the charge. Say a group charges $50/year, and I thought that was a good deal at first, then changed my mind and stopped using it after a couple of months. When the next year comes around, if there's a surprise $50 charge on my credit card, I'm not going to be happy, and might dispute it with the credit card company. Providing an automatic email warning me about the charge a few days in advance would give me a chance to get out and avoid the dispute process.

JohnF


moderated Re: Language

 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 11:55 AM, Sharon Villines wrote:
There will be no racial, ethnic, gender based insults or any other personal discriminations.
Unfortunately I don't have time to proof-read the whole thing, but the sentence above stands out for its lack of the word "or" before "gender based." It's an actual grammatical error.

There would also preferably be a comma after "insults," but that lack is a matter of preference rather than correctness. The term "personal discriminations" also seems a bit odd. But those two are minor compared to the grammatical error.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 04:20 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Wouldn't it just make more sense for group owners or moderators to have permission to reply to any topic
That's not related to this issue, although I agree with that suggestion as well. This issue is being able to lock or moderate a topic quickly enough, before anybody jumps into the conversation. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Wouldn't it just make more sense for group owners or moderators to have permission to reply to any topic, locked or moderated or not, since they are the very folks doing the locking or moderating?

That's how it's handled on another site where I moderate.  Moderators can reply to locked topics and, in fact, get a big red banner telling them they have the ability to reply to locked topics.

That way you can set the status first and add your note afterward (if you want to add one).

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Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Moderator vs Manager

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 06:54 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 03:46 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
The moderator is also absolutely not an equal when they are exercising the role,
Absolutely right. I meant to say that as well.
I have actually seen people try to argue that this position is wrong and autocratic.  Well, I invite them to have a look at groups (and plenty of examples exist in archival, but utterly dead form) where thumbing one's nose at moderator orders was permitted and those who did so not immediately warned (if that, depending on just exactly what was done) and/or banned.

One can, although one should proceed with great caution, engage a moderator privately if one feels one has been unfairly treated.  But what one does not do is defy a moderator when they have said, "cut it out!," in one form or another.

That's what they're there for when such is necessary.  And following those orders is a part of the social compact.tha t

I do not believe in heavy-handed micro-moderating.  But if anything reaches the stage where I feel that stepping in is necessary then it is "comply or goodbye!"
 
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Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Moderator vs Manager

 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 03:46 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
The moderator is also absolutely not an equal when they are exercising the role,
Absolutely right. I meant to say that as well.

I do have one group where I have made everyone a moderator, but it's unusual. It's the group for my block, and there was a former yahoo group where the moderator held her role over everyone's head, she was the only one who could issue invitations to the other neighbors, etc. I wanted a group where everyone had invitation power and felt like an equal. (It's still not really true, because as group owner I can make others moderators or not, etc.). But I think this is really an exception to the rule.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Language

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 02:55 PM, Sharon Villines wrote:
Immediate suspension "of the group by Groups.io.” The message, the group, the member?
Of the member.  All rules I cited, except those clearly of an "overarching the site" nature, are applicable to the member doing thing X or Y.

Of course, if an entire group suddenly went south with its whole membership violating that rule I would simply presume that it could be suspended/deleted.
 
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Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Language

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I just lifted these particular bits verbatim.  I actually prefer the updates you've proposed for the most part.

I'm more interested in the concepts embodied to be adopted in some form, if the consensus is that they should be, than in any retention of the wording.

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Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Moderator vs Manager

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I also disagree strongly.   I don't know when it is finally going to sink in for some people that venues have cultures and the meaning of terms within those venues is very well established.  The term "moderator" and the role is very well known.   The moderator is also absolutely not an equal when they are exercising the role, and they are nothing but an equal when they are not.  That's a fact.

You (for any you) had ought to try to acquaint yourself with the mores and folkways of the place you're entering before trying to make terminology mean something it doesn't.

I also agree that "manager" sounds far more "boss like" than moderator does.  Moderator generally means someone who keeps order when necessary, and not just in groups online.  If it's not necessary then they don't do it.
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Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: First pass at a group payments help section

 

I am on a free account so I can't use this, but the language is really clear and easy to understand. What I did not see in the help section though, possibly because I use a screen reader and missed a heading or something, but I saw nothing about switching your group back to a free group and steps on how to do that.


moderated Re: Moderator vs Manager

 

I very strongly disagree. The term "moderator" is in common usage in social media and people are used to it. "Manager" to me sounds like someone's boss, and I don't consider it at all a more accurate description of the moderation that takes place in online discussion groups.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 07:30 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
To avoid that, I am suggesting including moderator options "reply and lock" and "reply and moderate" under the "more" menu, thus eliminating the problem. 
IMHO this suggestion has merit, although my own preference would be for the additional capabilities to be provided via additional Reply + Lock & Reply + Moderate buttons beside the existing Reply to Group rather than be selected via the More tab. 

Chris


moderated Moderator vs Manager

Sharon Villines
 

Many people have a negative response to the idea of a “moderator” on a list of equals, where everyone is sharing with each other like a team. On small lists, I have often made everyone on the list an owner and/or moderator.

A moderator is "someone who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion” like a president or chair person.

People respond better to “manager” which is usually a more accurate description. People seem to think of it more as a technical support role.

Just a thought unless others experience the same phenomenon.

Sharon
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Sharon Villines, Washington DC

"Let us make a special effort to stop communicating, so we can have some conversation." Judith Martin

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