Date   

moderated How do I switch who is paying for a group?

Jennifer Christian
 

Hi, all -

I am an owner of several Groups.io groups, three of which are "premium".  I am already being billed and paying the monthly fee for two of them automatically via credit card.   A colleague is paying for the third via her credit card. 

Now I want to take over the responsibility for paying for the third one (ACOEM-WFDSection).  When I go to my Accounts, I do not see an option to add payment for another group that already exists.    

I'm probably missing something -- or maybe this is a feature that hasn't been built yet.   Any ideas?

Jennifer Christian


moderated Provide custom notification text when doing direct add to subgroup #suggestion

Dan Hartford
 

#featureRequest.

If someone is already in the MAIN subgroup, when I add them to a subgroup they just get the Groups.IO provided boiler plate email.  There does not seem to be a Notice template for the email they receive. 

REQUEST: Please use the the "Direct Add" notice type provided in the subgroup settings when adding a new person to the subgroup with the Direct Add feature.

Thanks -- Dan


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

Marina
 

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 09:57 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:


I don't think that speculation about what Groups.io has to do for GDPR is
productive. I have been told by my lawyers that I will not have to remove
messages posted from someone as part of their right to be forgotten.
Thank you, Mark. Sorry, I didn't mean to spark a new discussion on GDPR here, just suggested a bulk remove option which could be uself to moderators/owners.
All the best,
Marina


moderated Re: Accessibility Related: "Dropdown Links" on Groups.io Main Page

Sarah k Alawami
 

Right.  I think for example when I hear link and I click it, it does say expanded and stuff. I have no idea if voiceover is reading the aria tag or what not.  I'm not on my windows machine right now to test so right now I cannot comment any further. 

Here is though a small demo attached via a link of waht I see with groups.io and voiceover. I did not do a screen cap as i'm way too lazy right now and I'm just a bit tired and my computer is having issues. Lol!


Blessings and happy Thursday.

On May 24, 2018, at 7:17 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Sarah,

         If you're using Voiceover then you're on a Mac and in "a different word" from Andre and myself.  Different screen readers in the same OS ecosystem, e.g., JAWS and NVDA, are behaving slightly differently so it's no shock that another screen reader in an entirely different OS ecosystem is doing something else again.

         What I was trying to explain, which is coming from someone who's sighted, is that I don't think something that functions as a dropdown is "fully accessible" unless a screen reader user is aware that this is what it is because the screen reader tells them so.  When I hear, "link, topics," I don't think of it as any different than when I hear, "link, groups.io" in that when I activate either I expect I will be taken to the place announced (or related to the click-through text when someone is using that).  In this case just hearing "link, topic" would give me no idea that it's behaving, in essence, like a menu and you need to expand it (and you don't expand links, at least not to my mind, but I understand why it gets announced that way in this case) to see what your options are.  How on earth would you know this if you were entirely unfamiliar with the page and just navigating around it?  I ask that sincerely since there are always things I'm learning I didn't know before (but if it's tied to Voiceover it will be, for me, of academic interest only as I don't inhabit that world).
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Knowledge consists of a collection of uninspired facts. Wisdom is their artful use.


moderated Re: Accessibility Related: "Dropdown Links" on Groups.io Main Page

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Sarah,

         If you're using Voiceover then you're on a Mac and in "a different word" from Andre and myself.  Different screen readers in the same OS ecosystem, e.g., JAWS and NVDA, are behaving slightly differently so it's no shock that another screen reader in an entirely different OS ecosystem is doing something else again.

         What I was trying to explain, which is coming from someone who's sighted, is that I don't think something that functions as a dropdown is "fully accessible" unless a screen reader user is aware that this is what it is because the screen reader tells them so.  When I hear, "link, topics," I don't think of it as any different than when I hear, "link, groups.io" in that when I activate either I expect I will be taken to the place announced (or related to the click-through text when someone is using that).  In this case just hearing "link, topic" would give me no idea that it's behaving, in essence, like a menu and you need to expand it (and you don't expand links, at least not to my mind, but I understand why it gets announced that way in this case) to see what your options are.  How on earth would you know this if you were entirely unfamiliar with the page and just navigating around it?  I ask that sincerely since there are always things I'm learning I didn't know before (but if it's tied to Voiceover it will be, for me, of academic interest only as I don't inhabit that world).
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Knowledge consists of a collection of uninspired facts. Wisdom is their artful use.


moderated Re: Accessibility Related: "Dropdown Links" on Groups.io Main Page

Sarah k Alawami
 

I actually don't understand what the issue is. For me it's totally accessible. I hit it and vo says expanded I then can filter like you said, I can then just go to where I need to go. I fi arrow away and back to it I hear "expanded: so I just hit space to make it not expanded. Maybe it's just me being used to these things but for me it is not an issue. I've dealt with these kind of things in wordpress and voiceover renders it correctly over here.

On May 24, 2018, at 4:00 PM, Andre Polykanine <andre@oire.org> wrote:

Brian,
Oops, I'm sorry.
You are absolutely right. Moreover, JAWS (which I use) sees an odd
character (reported as U+F028) and this particular character is the
link, not the word "topics". And yepp, dropdowns are not indicated in
a11y tree.


--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Skype: menelion_elensule
Twitter (English only): @AndrePolykanine


------------ Original message ------------
From: Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: main@beta.groups.io
Date created: , 10:21:40 PM
Subject: [beta] Accessibility Related: "Dropdown Links" on Groups.io Main Page


Andre,

We're talking apples and oranges here. I am speaking about the groups.io main page, not the main page for a specific group on groups.io. That is where you do your unmuting of threads you've previously muted via the e-mail interface.

The respective links that act as dropdown triggers for topics and hashtags, respectively, are:

https://groups.io/#messagemenu (topics)

https://groups.io/#tagsmenu (hashtags)

Each of these is announced by NVDA as though it were just a link like any other link, with no indication that it is a control to let you reveal your choices for that category by activating it. When you activate it, NVDA does say expanded, then you need to arrow down to hear the three links that are your choices.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134
Knowledge consists of a collection of uninspired facts. Wisdom is their artful use.





moderated Re: Accessibility Related: "Dropdown Links" on Groups.io Main Page

Andre Polykanine <andre@...>
 

Brian,
Oops, I'm sorry.
You are absolutely right. Moreover, JAWS (which I use) sees an odd
character (reported as U+F028) and this particular character is the
link, not the word "topics". And yepp, dropdowns are not indicated in
a11y tree.


--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Skype: menelion_elensule
Twitter (English only): @AndrePolykanine

------------ Original message ------------
From: Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: main@beta.groups.io
Date created: , 10:21:40 PM
Subject: [beta] Accessibility Related: "Dropdown Links" on Groups.io Main Page


Andre,

           We're talking apples and oranges here.  I am speaking about the groups.io main page, not the main page for a specific group on groups.io.  That is where you do your unmuting of threads you've previously muted via the e-mail interface.

           The respective links that act as dropdown triggers for topics and hashtags, respectively, are:

                                  https://groups.io/#messagemenu     (topics)

                                   https://groups.io/#tagsmenu            (hashtags)

Each of these is announced by NVDA as though it were just a link like any other link, with no indication that it is a control to let you reveal your choices for that category by activating it.  When you activate it, NVDA does say expanded, then you need to arrow down to hear the three links that are your choices.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Knowledge consists of a collection of uninspired facts. Wisdom is their artful use.


moderated Option to suppress user notice withe Direct Add if Subgroup included #suggestion

Dan Hartford
 

HI,

We are only using our MAIN group due to a requirement that members of subgroups must be picked from the Main group.  We do not use Main for messages or posts.  When we add a new member to one of our subgroups (say "Members") by doing a Direct Add from the MAIN group and checking the box to also add the member to the MEMBERS subgroup, the member in question gets two emails.  One for being added to the MAIN group and one for being added to the "MEMBERS" group.  This is quite confusing to the person getting these emails (also due to a bug I reported earlier they get the same text on both emails).  

FEATURE REQUEST:  
When doing a direct add where one or more subgroups are also selected, provide an option to suppress the email to the new member pertaining to being added to the MAIN group and only send the ones pertaining to being added to each of the subgroup(s).

Thanks -- Dan


moderated Re: Accessibility Related: "Dropdown Links" on Groups.io Main Page

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Andre,

           We're talking apples and oranges here.  I am speaking about the groups.io main page, not the main page for a specific group on groups.io.  That is where you do your unmuting of threads you've previously muted via the e-mail interface.

           The respective links that act as dropdown triggers for topics and hashtags, respectively, are:

                                  https://groups.io/#messagemenu     (topics)

                                   https://groups.io/#tagsmenu            (hashtags)

Each of these is announced by NVDA as though it were just a link like any other link, with no indication that it is a control to let you reveal your choices for that category by activating it.  When you activate it, NVDA does say expanded, then you need to arrow down to hear the three links that are your choices.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Knowledge consists of a collection of uninspired facts. Wisdom is their artful use.


moderated Re: Accessibility Related: "Dropdown Links" on Groups.io Main Page

Andre Polykanine <andre@...>
 

Hi Brian,
A screen-reader user here :).
What I do is I just navigate to the direct URL (thank you Mark for
good and understandable URLs!):
http://groups.io/g/mygroup/topics
So I don't even bother myself with those dropdowns. I admit though
that, being almost fully accessible, Groups.io still needs some
polishing in this part.
Hope this helps at least as a work-around.

--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Skype: menelion_elensule
Twitter (English only): @AndrePolykanine

------------ Original message ------------
From: Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: main@beta.groups.io
Date created: , 8:30:24 PM
Subject: [beta] Accessibility Related: "Dropdown Links" on Groups.io Main Page


I was just trying to assist someone who's a screen reader user with regard to how to unmute threads, which has to be done via the web interface (unless there's some secret e-mail option of which I'm unaware).  See:  https://groups.io/g/Group_Help/topic/muting_threads_in_groups_io/20010651

What follows is probably a "below the hood" question that's excessively geeky, but it would help me to know the answer.   When using a screen reader on the groups.io main page, and landing on "Topics" with the dropdown link to the right, which I'd instinctively think is a button, it is announced as "Topics link."   There is no way that any screen reader user would know that this link is, in actuality, behaving as a dropdown where, once expanded, you have access to "All topics", "Muted topics," and "Followed topics."  The same applies in regard to the hashtag link.

Is there some way to give alternate text for those two links (which behave for all the world like buttons that give dropdown lists) so that it would say, "Topics/Hashtags (respectively) link, activate to get options," or something similar.

It would be great if it did that for any link structured such that when you activate it what you get is a list of further options, not unlike what used to be presented in a menu, where if you had a submenu for a given item that would be announced.

While these links are not inaccessible in an absolute sense they are in a practical sense.  Without a sighted assistant such as myself to make a screen reader user aware that those links are not links in any conventional sense they'd breeze right past them under normal circumstances.  Because I can see it's obvious from the dropdown arrow that something else is going to be presented when those links are activated.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Knowledge consists of a collection of uninspired facts. Wisdom is their artful use.


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

Jonathon,

Just be aware that in most (¿all?) countries in continental Europe, one can neither waive, nor sign away one's rights. As such, it doesn't matter what your agreement says, for European residents the GDPR applies. Depending upon country of citizenship, European citizens might covered by the GDPR, regardless of physical domicile.

I´ve got 2 business homepages, a private one and a blog, all of them in Germany. So a couple of months ago - naturally after gaining legal advice - I updated my privacy policy terms right after the GDPR terms were made public.

Here we´re talking about mailing lists/groups. If s.o. leaving my group asked me as owner to have their mails deleted, I wouldn´t even be able to do this, for there is no delete button in the activity log. But I trust in Mark that this wouldn´t be necessary anyway.

Victoria


moderated Accessibility Related: "Dropdown Links" on Groups.io Main Page

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I was just trying to assist someone who's a screen reader user with regard to how to unmute threads, which has to be done via the web interface (unless there's some secret e-mail option of which I'm unaware).  See:  https://groups.io/g/Group_Help/topic/muting_threads_in_groups_io/20010651

What follows is probably a "below the hood" question that's excessively geeky, but it would help me to know the answer.   When using a screen reader on the groups.io main page, and landing on "Topics" with the dropdown link to the right, which I'd instinctively think is a button, it is announced as "Topics link."   There is no way that any screen reader user would know that this link is, in actuality, behaving as a dropdown where, once expanded, you have access to "All topics", "Muted topics," and "Followed topics."  The same applies in regard to the hashtag link.

Is there some way to give alternate text for those two links (which behave for all the world like buttons that give dropdown lists) so that it would say, "Topics/Hashtags (respectively) link, activate to get options," or something similar.

It would be great if it did that for any link structured such that when you activate it what you get is a list of further options, not unlike what used to be presented in a menu, where if you had a submenu for a given item that would be announced.

While these links are not inaccessible in an absolute sense they are in a practical sense.  Without a sighted assistant such as myself to make a screen reader user aware that those links are not links in any conventional sense they'd breeze right past them under normal circumstances.  Because I can see it's obvious from the dropdown arrow that something else is going to be presented when those links are activated.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Knowledge consists of a collection of uninspired facts. Wisdom is their artful use.


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

J

 

Groups.io is also a website and has to comply with the new privacy (etc.) rules. I'm sure Mark is doing this correctly.

I am very much aware of that and also of the fact that it´s more productive if he speaks for himself.

 

Victoria


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

All,

I don't think that speculation about what Groups.io has to do for GDPR is productive. I have been told by my lawyers that I will not have to remove messages posted from someone as part of their right to be forgotten.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 08:46 am, Nick Dunmur wrote:
you will likely have a contract of some sort and if you’ve granted rights to that publication under that contract, GDPR will not over-ride it.
Exactly. That was just my counterexample to Toki's "no ifs, ands, or buts." And in the case of groups.io, members HAVE granted rights, via the contract that is the TOU.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

On 24 May 2018, at 16:25, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

What if I'm a journalist writing for an online news outlet and I've granted rights to the publication?

If you’re writing commercially, you will likely have a contract of some sort and if you’ve granted rights to that publication under that contract, GDPR will not over-ride it.

kind regards

Nick
___

dUNMUR | member of the AOP


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 08:44 am, Nick Dunmur wrote:
The right to erasure is not an absolute right
Exactly. It couldn't possibly be.
I'll have a look at that link. Thanks for posting.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

Dave Sergeant
 

I am not sure GDPR requires that.

Things like email lists come under the GDPR legitimate purpose clauses
- which allows the supplied data to be used for the purposes of running
the organisation/email list/whatever. When somebody subscribes to a
groups.io list they supply their email address and other information
they choose to supply for them to access the service. Anything they put
in their posts are offered by themselves and will be fully aware that
their posts will be distributed to all on the list. Everything comes
under legitimate purposes and no extra permission is required.

It is of course completely impossible to delete all references to an
individual in the archives since this is distributed in an unknown
number of places on individual computers and by deleting posts a group
could not work as it was intended as related posts in threads would no
longer make sense.

The groups.io website is somewhat different as more detailed
information about moderators is held, particularly for those on paid
plans. Mark has stated he will be updating his privacy terms to reflect
this.

In my experience the current flood of GDRP emails I have been receiving
are a disguised attempt to add people to organisations marketting
campaigns - tick this box if you want to receive exciting offers from
us, but if you don't you will still get your membership renewal
mailings and other basic features.

Dave

On 24 May 2018 at 15:20, toki wrote:

On 05/24/2018 09:26 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I haven't read the GDPR but I would be surprised if it required a
website to remove posts that someone posted
themselves after granting rights (via the TOU) for the website to the
publish the posts.

Not only does the GDPR require that, but it also requires that all posts
that quote the individual be removed.

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

 

On 24 May 2018, at 16:20, toki <toki.kantoor@...> wrote:

Doesn't matter where the content came from, if the subject requests
removal, it has to be removed. No ifs, ands, or buts, unless you want to
pay a very large fine.

Not true.
The right to erasure is not an absolute right. It is all laid out here <https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-to-erasure/> A lot of people are worrying unduly about all this - there are not a million miles between the current Data Protection Act 1998 (UK) and the GDPR.

kind regards

Nick
___

dUNMUR | member of the AOP


moderated Re: Account export and GDPR update

toki
 

On 05/24/2018 03:25 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

journalist writing for an online news outlet and I've granted rights to the publication? The publication does not then have to remove my articles on my demand just because my name is on the byline.
That comes under both _The Right to be Forgotten_, and _Moral Rights_,
of Copyright Law.

I am not a lawyer.
This is not legal advice.

jonathon

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